Roadmap?

[morsmage]

Glad to see a place to keep up with the new game. I really enjoyed the direction that Vintagecraft was going! 

I see the "Vision" page but I wondered if you had a more detailed roadmap or feature list like on the mod wiki. Before I (or others) go suggesting features or asking feature questions, it would be nice to know what the feature list might look like from your perspective. Namely things that you know you will want to add, and things you will most assuredly not add.

Thanks!

[Tyron]

Hi, nice to see you here!

The largest chunk of works goes into to just getting some basic systems to work. And while I do that I also implement them in a better or more versatile way than minecraft did, if possible (e.g. 32 block light with rgb colors anyone? ;-)

These basic must-have systems I planned are (in order of priority): Lighting system (nearing completion), Basic survival, Smelting/Mining/Crafting/Farming/etc., Mobs and Animals, Custom Block Shapes using Model JSON Files, External tool to create Blocks/Mobs, Mechanics and/or Villages+Trading System, Player Progression System (Leveling, Gear attributes, Combat system)

Other systems (mostly) optional system I planned are: Particle System (being worked on), Real 3D Sound, Playstyles (Wilderness Survival, Build&Survive, Survive&Automate, Creative), Inter-Server-Trading-System, Dynamic Market Pricing for Villages, Gear Scrolling (maple story style), Herbalism&Brewing and a bunch more.

Things I likely won't add are whatever doesn't fit into the Vintagecraft concept. We want to keep a look and feel of 14th century europe, more or less.  

I do keep a large internal wiki with all the ideas and concepts. Hope that answers your question.

[Tyron]

Generally my top priority lies in making the game playable in a way thats engaging, then add fancy features later. As I work near full time on it I have to keep a close watch on my budget.

I'll be more than happy to turn this into a humongous game in the coming years, but only if it can pay my bills ;-)
...or when all of europe suddenly decides to give everybody basic income

[morsmage]

That is a good amount of information. Fantastic. As for the second part of the question, is there anything you want to explicitly avoid in this game (mechanics, gameplay, etc.)?

[Tyron]

Things I don't want in particular:

- Whatever clearly breaks consistency with the rest of the game (e.g. round objects in a world where everything is square)
- Overly large amount of detail where it doesn't matter (e.g. high poly stuff)
- Avoid mechanics/resources becoming useless over time.

Everything else is open to discussion.

[skol]

On 19.4.2016 at 9:31 PM, Tyron said:

Things I don't want in particular:

- Whatever clearly breaks consistency with the rest of the game (e.g. round objects in a world where everything is square)

What about 45° angles (slopes, octogonal structures)?

[Tyron]

9 minutes ago, skol said:

What about 45° angles (slopes, octogonal structures)?

Vintagestory will use a simple cubic collision detection system, so there won't be 45 degree slopes to walk up on, if thats what you're asking. There will be a number of angled blocks for aesthetics only like rails, firepit, mechanical power blocks (they rotate visibly).. pretty much the same way I have it in Vintagecraft already.

[redram]

So I just recently found out about vintage story, and wanted to ask some questions about where things might go, and this thread seemed like a good place to start.  I've watched a few videos, read the roadmap, and many of the posts here.  But this is the stuff I'm left wondering.  Some of it will be framed in reference to TFC, since that's where I'm coming from.  Hope that's ok.  While I love TFC, it seems to have a lot of limitations due to basic minecraft, and I'm interested to see where a game unencumbered by minecraft's limitations might go!

- To start, I'm curious if there is a concrete plan regarding fantasy.  I saw somewhere references to several high tier metals such as stainless steel and some other exotic (i.e. modern) stuff, that make it seem like the game is headed for a 'realism' take.  I'm wondering if this is the case, or if the game might eventually ecompass fantasy elements as well.  Things like fantasy metals (mithril, adamantium), fantasy mobs, magic, etc.

- Are there any plans to attempt to incorporate a body temperature system, with clothing, heat sources, etc? Didn't see it in the roadmap, but thought I'd ask anyway.  It was a feature I was looking forward to in TFC2.

- I noticed that in the videos I watched, health regenerates.  Is this planned to be the default?  Or perhaps there will at least be a config option?  Also, sticking with the 10 heart system?  It would seem that if you're making your own game that doesn't need to play with minecraft mods, a larger health scale might provide more flexibility of damage scales.

- Mine supports.  Based on the videos I've watched it doesn't seem like they'll be a thing, as there is no cave-in mechanic from what I could tell.  Also seemed like the ore veins are much smaller than TFC (though I could be wrong, I didn't see much mining in the videos), so no need for mining out huge areas anyway possibly.  I rather enjoy the support mechanic of TFC (except the hidden cave-ins in un-discovered areas of course) so I'd miss that.

- It's rumored that TFC2 will have region-specific weather.  Any plans in that regard for VS?  The roadmap mentions 'advanced' weather, but I'm not clear what that means.

- Player progression.  I couldn't find anything on that.  Is there any plans for skills (per TFC) or skill webs, skill/stat point systems, etc?

- World Height.  I think I saw somewhere that world height is planned to be 1024, is that right?  Where is sea level planned to be? 

- Light sources.  TFC took the step of making torches limited in duration.  I got the impression VS intends to have an unlimited torch life mechanic.  Is that correct?

Overall i get that VS is intended to be 'less grindy', more trimmed down compared to TFC (especially evident in the smithing area).   I'm something of a fan of a lot of those 'grindy' TFC systems, but I get that a lot of people aren't.  I'm just trying to figure out a little more clearly if this is a game I'll be interested in.

[Tyron]

Hi, I'll be happy to answer your questions.

> and I'm interested to see where a game unencumbered by minecraft's limitations might go!

Me too :-)

> - To start, I'm curious if there is a concrete plan regarding fantasy.  I saw somewhere references to several high tier metals such as stainless steel and some other exotic (i.e. modern) stuff, that make it seem like the game is headed for a 'realism' take.  I'm wondering if this is the case, or if the game might eventually ecompass fantasy elements as well.  Things like fantasy metals (mithril, adamantium), fantasy mobs, magic, etc.

We try to not stray to far off into fantasy. I think 80-90% of the games content will be loosely related to something in real life. But then again you could say dragons are also loosely based on real life
Generally we try to go the TFC way of believability.

> - Are there any plans to attempt to incorporate a body temperature system, with clothing, heat sources, etc? Didn't see it in the roadmap, but thought I'd ask anyway.  It was a feature I was looking forward to in TFC2.

Not planned in the short term. Might be included in the wilderness survival playstyle later on. Probably also fairly easy to add as a mod in the near future.

> - I noticed that in the videos I watched, health regenerates.  Is this planned to be the default?  Or perhaps there will at least be a config option?  Also, sticking with the 10 heart system?  It would seem that if you're making your own game that doesn't need to play with minecraft mods, a larger health scale might provide more flexibility of damage scales.

No, health is currently not regenerating. Just yesterday I added nutrition properties to items that will raise your saturation and health, freely configurable in the items json files.
There is no strict heart system really. Currently a player has a max health of 20, which can you can mod to any max health you want. Also it is a decimal number, so you could also work with increments of 0.00001 health - nothing prevents you from doing so, as far as i know.

>- Mine supports.  Based on the videos I've watched it doesn't seem like they'll be a thing, as there is no cave-in mechanic from what I could tell.  Also seemed like the ore veins are much smaller than TFC (though I could be wrong, I didn't see much mining in the videos), so no need for mining out huge areas anyway possibly.  I rather enjoy the support mechanic of TFC (except the hidden cave-ins in un-discovered areas of course) so I'd miss that.

We're rather in favor of collapse free tunneling. It did get quite messy for me when I was mining with supports in TFC. Plus it gets hard to build any large underground structure. It would fit really well for the wilderness survival playstyle, however.
Ore placement mechanic is something inbetween Minecrafts and TFCs. They are larger than in MC but smaller than in TFC and less common than in MC but more common than in TFC.  The ores are also not seemingly randomly distributed around a center as in TFC but always appear in slices. I do want to add the ores that you can pick up on the surface.
Generally the direction is TFC Style but still approachable by most players.

> - It's rumored that TFC2 will have region-specific weather.  Any plans in that regard for VS?  The roadmap mentions 'advanced' weather, but I'm not clear what that means.

Yea, I'd love to have that. I don't know how or when yet.

> - Player progression.  I couldn't find anything on that.  Is there any plans for skills (per TFC) or skill webs, skill/stat point systems, etc?

Yes it's on my neverending list of things I'd like to add. I'd like to have a basic exp/leveling system, some 3-4 skills per class, a small % exp loss on death and a min. level restriction on rare weapons and armor

- World Height.  I think I saw somewhere that world height is planned to be 1024, is that right?  Where is sea level planned to be? 

VS has cubic chunks and all 3 dimensions of a map size can be configured. The default for 256 blocks with the sealevel at 110, but you can configure pretty much any multiple of 32. Since large world heights are costly in terms of chunk generation and relighting I chose a low value as default.

- Light sources.  TFC took the step of making torches limited in duration.  I got the impression VS intends to have an unlimited torch life mechanic.  Is that correct?

Yes torches last forever. Limited duratin would only for the wilderness survival playstyle, I presume.

> Overall i get that VS is intended to be 'less grindy', more trimmed down compared to TFC (especially evident in the smithing area).   I'm something of a fan of a lot of those 'grindy' TFC systems, but I get that a lot of people aren't.  I'm just trying to figure out a little more clearly if this is a game I'll be interested in.

I do find those hardcore survival elements can be a great addition to the game, but it really depends on the individual players mindset on how they want to play. So I've come up with 4 different play styles some time ago, of which the "Wilderness Survival" could include all the hardcore survival elements one could ever wish for, whereas the standard "Survive&Build" playstyle would be closer to minecrafts survival.

We will be first focusing on Survive&Build and only then move on the the Wilderness Survival playstyle.
Then depending on which playstyle you choose, certain mechanics would be enabled or disabled. Thats the idea at least.

[redram]

Thanks for the very prompt and thorough replies Tyron! 

-One other thing I forgot to ask: with regards to other 'dimensions', will VS handle them ok (vs TFC which does not)?  I realize this may be a discarded concept given the focus on 'believability', in which case what would the point of other dimensions be, right?  But in the event one wanted to mod in fantasy elements, other dimensions would open certain options.

That's interesting on the S&B vs Wilderness playstyles.  So is the thought there that in S&B materials and building will be easier and faster, whereas in Wilderness maybe getting every bit of material can be a chore, and one would be doing well to have a log cabin?  I presume systems aren't going to actually have different forms in each mode right?  Like smithing in S&B won't be the match-the-steps style, while in wilderness it would morph into TFC randomized target you-figure-it-out form?  Changes will be more binary?  Torches are limited, or infinite?  Supports required, or not?  Body temperature exists, or doesn't?  That kind of thing?  I don't know anything about coding, but I would assume it'd get messy to try to morph systems between modes, rather than just turn them on/off?

So you mention classes.  Are you meaning like, full-on separated classes, and the player has to pick one?  Or just sort of different occupations (e.g. farmer, miner, warrior), and the player can pursue all at once if they want?

- Was there any consideration for a a weight system, or reduced stack sizes or something in Wilderness? 

- You mention the surface nuggets.  Were there going to be any tools for locating ore, like the propick?  I didn't pay enough attention to the videos to notice if there is one currently.  But then again, all the videos I saw are a year old.  Unfortunately doing google and youtube searches for vintage craft/story turns up tons of extraneous hobby crafting and other irrelevant videos and pages.

I do want to say, amazing work!  I love a lot of what you've done - the GUI-less forge, the windmill and cog-shaft drivetrain systems, two-part anvils.  I'm very interested to see what else is coming!

 

[Tyron]

> Thanks for the very prompt and thorough replies Tyron! 

Anytime, I appreciate your interest

> -One other thing I forgot to ask: with regards to other 'dimensions', will VS handle them ok (vs TFC which does not)?  I realize this may be a discarded concept given the focus on 'believability', in which case what would the point of other dimensions be, right?  But in the event one wanted to mod in fantasy elements, other dimensions would open certain options.

I would actually love to expand that idea into an quasi infinite amount of dimension that would offer some sort of infinite player progression system with similar terrain generating but ever increasing game difficulty. But that I didn't plan before fall 2017. Survival first.
Another idea would be to have a underground dimension where you would just have 256-1024 blocks entirely for mining. So would still be believable.

> That's interesting on the S&B vs Wilderness playstyles.  So is the thought there that in S&B materials and building will be easier and faster, whereas in Wilderness maybe getting every bit of material can be a chore, and one would be doing well to have a log cabin?  I presume systems aren't going to actually have different forms in each mode right?  Like smithing in S&B won't be the match-the-steps style, while in wilderness it would morph into TFC randomized target you-figure-it-out form?  Changes will be more binary?  Torches are limited, or infinite?  Supports required, or not?  Body temperature exists, or doesn't?  That kind of thing?  I don't know anything about coding, but I would assume it'd get messy to try to morph systems between modes, rather than just turn them on/off?

Yes thats right. There could be different blocks and smithing mechanics in each playstyle yes, but I have no clear plans of it just yet. Some mechanics would be a binary on/off, yes. I see no need for any kind of morphing, but the mechanics can become more or less prevalent depending on the game difficulty.
 

> So you mention classes.  Are you meaning like, full-on separated classes, and the player has to pick one?  Or just sort of different occupations (e.g. farmer, miner, warrior), and the player can pursue all at once if they want?

Just some sort of occupation, yes. These could have a few different skills or other boni, like a minig speed bonus for miners

- Was there any consideration for a a weight system, or reduced stack sizes or something in Wilderness? 

While the weight system in TFC was interesting, it seems kinda redundant if you can achieve a very similar effect with item quantities as well.

- You mention the surface nuggets.  Were there going to be any tools for locating ore, like the propick?  I didn't pay enough attention to the videos to notice if there is one currently.  But then again, all the videos I saw are a year old.  Unfortunately doing google and youtube searches for vintage craft/story turns up tons of extraneous hobby crafting and other irrelevant videos and pages.

If there is going to be a propick it probably would be an optional tool to improve your mining experience. In TFC you were quite screwed without one.

I do want to say, amazing work!  I love a lot of what you've done - the GUI-less forge, the windmill and cog-shaft drivetrain systems, two-part anvils.  I'm very interested to see what else is coming!

Thanks
I hope to get back to the state where Vintagecraft was as soon as possible.

[redram]

A couple other areas:

- food.  Will there be any sort of decay, in either mode?  Not the overly time-intensive TFC1 format,  but more along the lines of Ark perhaps? 

- Water/lava source blocks.  Will the player be able to move them with a 'bucket' (of whatever tier)?  Or might that be limited to pumps or other technology?

[Tyron]

General Food decay is again definitely something thinkable für Wilderness Survival which will come only later. For Survive&Build we thought of a mild version of food decay, where only unprepared food would spoil. Prepared foods, like Jam, Cheese, Beef Jerky and the like could never spoil. 

Unmovable liquid source blocks would be a very good addition for the survive&automate playstyle. For Survive&Build they would probably be movable.

 

[tony Liberatto]

I think we should have this page or something similar created and posted in a more visible place. I mean something that does not goes to the bottom of the forum. Also to have it Update and change every month.

It would be good for players to know in what direction the game is going next. Maybe even vote on that.

As for myself, I think since we already have a good smith system and even got to iron age the next steps should be :

• Add a lot more rock types and generate them into the survival world.
• Add more tree types and generate them into the survival world.
• Add a chisel ( Or another way) to create the polished stone.
• Add a way to have a brick version of every kind of rock.

For many players, all they care is to have a lot of different pretty blocks to use on their buildings. Something that we really are lacking right now.

[Tyron]

There's a roadmap page in the menu: https://www.vintagestory.at/roadmap.html/

I had a poll running a few times on the favorite next features. I can continue those - I'll make one in the next few days!

Wait nvm, making a poll right away.