Workbenches

[Vratislav]

First time contributing here. I am not likely to create the described ideas as a mod (never tried and not much free time), but after playing the vanilla up to +- final stages, there is a concept that may increase immersion of crafting in the Vintage Story and even may be considerable for the core game.
Some ideas are surely not original, I have read parts of discussions about Crafting Table and Extended Workbench mods and applied ideas that were fitting. Also, as a new player (starting in 1.19.1), I have no big insight to the history of the game development, and I have not read forums completely. So if I am not aware that a similar proposal was already discussed or even if similar mod already exists, mea culpa, and please navigate me there. 
Also, I believe this does not fall into the extent of “frequently requested removal of crafting grid,” partially because I haven’t found further elaboration of that proposal, partially, because the idea presented keeps the crafting grid, although a bit changed way.

Premises:

• Crafting in VS is somewhat easy and very “instant”, too “TheOtherBlockGameCrafty.”
• When all ingredients and tools are on the spot, there is no difference in crafting simple recipes of one item (as knife), advanced and complicated recipes (as glider or resonator) and making bulks of items, e.g. making hundreds of ashlar stones by two shift-clicks.
• Yeah, many recipes use tools (sometimes specific) or even blueprints in a crafting grid. This is a good beginning that may be extended.
• IRL, making complicated stuff requires not only tools, but also a comfortable spot to make it, so a workbench is a logical thing to have in the VS, of course differently than the universal crafting table that allows anything.
• Tyrion declares to replace the actual crafting mechanic with something more immersive in the future. So this is the result of my personal thinking, how it might look without in fact to change the crafting principles so much.

Concept:

• The aim is to make crafting more balanced, rather than only more difficult. 
• Crafting would be done outside standard inventory. 
  • I haven’t figured out how exactly the user interface would look like. It can be similar to https://mods.vintagestory.at/craftingtable (including grid working as containers), or we may get rid of the grid dialog altogether, which would be probably nicer.
  • For sure, the ingredients should be shown on the operating surface, as will be the resulting product - which can be then moved into inventory or any opened storage. 
• Simplest and early game recipes can be done anywhere on a flat surface. 
• Mid-game and advanced recipes would require workbenches of several tiers.
  • This shall be used mostly for increased immersion, and the workbench required would be accessible naturally with the players’ progress. But rarely, the requirement for specific workbench may be used as gating of particular, construction difficult recipes (e.g. as condenser requires specific tool).
• Advanced workbenches should contain several inventory slots for tools (the tools can be lying at the larger table or hanging on holders above the desk to be accessible directly for other purposes). These tables should also contain item slots, like reed chest or wooden chest under the table, also accessible as standard containers. When the workbench is activated, all slots become open too, thus easily accessible. 
  • This makes tools for crafting readily available, which brings some comfort. 
  • It may be an incentive to bring recipes requiring more various tools and also incentives players to have workbenches for various purposes and to have more sets of appropriate tools by them.
  • It also purposely makes moving workbenches more difficult. 
• Some specialized workbenches may be usable by particular classes only.

Mechanics

Tiers of workbenches:

• 0 No bench, on the ground: recipes limited to stone age and other simple ones (like up to three or four ingredients, but still 3x3). The second limit should be that only a very limited amount of items can be crafted at once (maybe only one?) 
• 1 Crude crafting table (1x1, made from 4 sticks and log, no inventory, for early game), recipes limited roughly to stone age epoch.
• 2 Basic workbench ( 1x2, made from 4 planks, 2 logs, tool rack and reed chest, for early to mid game or to be made quickly on the spot), should be able to make most of the recipes, but still with some limits to the amount of items processed at once.
• 3 Large workbench (1x3, made from 2 tool racks, 2 chests, 3 debarked logs and a clamp that can be casted or forged from 2 at least bronze ingots), should make all except very specialized recipes without limit the amount of items made. As an elementary support of bulk processing, it may refill crafting slots from workbench inventory automatically. 
• 4 Advanced workbench. For specialized recipes (resonator, glider and Jonas’ tech), it would require additional components like screwdrivers (steel?), rulers or magnifiers (casted glass?), probably gated by steel level. Can be 1x2 only, no bulk processing supposed.

Ideas for special workbenches:

• Tier 2 movable workpad (1x1, no inventory for items, maybe several slots for tools that can be carried with it?), suitable for traveling, gated by bronze. 
• Clockmasters' workbench, could be made by the bronze age tools and supplies, but allowing the clockmaster to craft anything (a bit of a miracle, well). It can have a larger number of inventory slots for small items. Clockmasters specific recipes (actually only tuning spear) should be made only using this table.
• Tailors’ workbench - can have a sewing machine and bring some advantages for tailors (idea is not finished).
• Drawing board - to make copies of blueprints.
• Writing table - to make copies of books, scrolls and maps.
• “Lore” workbenches - not movable or craftable, so some particular items may be made only on the workbench that is found in the (future) villages, or in the depths of ruins or dungeons. This brings additional challenges, like carrying the player’s painfully collected stuff to the most monsters' infested locations  

Limits and conclusions:

• From discussion about the Crafting Table and Workbench Expansion mod, I see that there is demand for automated crafting or filling slots for crafting tables using chutes or hoppers, copying chiseled blocks (as does Workbench expansion mod https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/285 ), or so. I think such requirements cannot be fulfilled by “vanilla-like” workbenches and such automation goes beyond the extent of this proposal.
• Still, I see it as possible to have automated filling of crafting recipes from inventory slots that are part of the table when making bulks of items, so the workbenches would also bring some convenience for players compared to the actual state of crafting.
• Finally, I am aware that implementing described ideas would go quite deep into the game and would have many consequences for gameplay, game balance and other aspects that I surely haven’t considered. So, bring it in what would not work, too. I'd be interested in feedback if these ideas may be worthwhile of vanilla or at least of a mod.
  
  (picture is for illustration only)

[Maelstrom]

The devs do desire to get rid of the crafting grid (see roadmap in the devlog menu at top of page).  My only concern is that too much realism is definitively UNfun in games and at such points realism needs to give way to game mechanics to promote enjoyment of the game rather than descend into a real life simulator.

 

[Thorfinn]

2 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

The devs do desire to get rid of the crafting grid (see roadmap in the devlog menu at top of page).  My only concern is that too much realism is definitively UNfun in games and at such points realism needs to give way to game mechanics to promote enjoyment of the game rather than descend into a real life simulator.

 

Case in point would be things like torches or cobblestone or stone paths. If I had to make torches one at a time, I think I'd just find a less tedious activity. (At that point, it doesn't seem like its really a game anymore.)

[Dra6o0n]

They can reuse the crafting grid in the workbench, but make it a 5x5 layout.

[Dra6o0n]

Actually for crafting complexity, it might be a interesting idea if say the 3x3 is the 'center' and is the simpler recipes.

Then when you use a workbench, it's a 3x3 with a outer slots surrounding it, making it 5x5, but 3x3 recipes still works if used solely there.

Then a better "crafting table" that can be utilized late game that's 7x7, requiring even more materials and components to build stuff there.

 

So 3x3 works for 'small' objects. Something you can easily grip in either hands.

5x5 is 'medium' objects. By scale is something the size of a character like plows or machines.

and then 7x7 are 'large' objects... And are akin to 'building' large devices or contraptions akin to say a ox cart or something maybe?

 

So when I say 'large' construction, I mean something like a 'assembly' layout on the ground in front of said crafting interface, so you construct vehicles and install parts to it.

Edited April 18 by Dra6o0n

[Dilan Rona]

Dra6o0n makes a good point, and I would like to see something like a workbench with a bigger crafting area for the bigger or more complicated recipes that the 3x3 is not supposed to handle.

[Maelstrom]

It all depends on the dev's vision of what crafting without the crafting grid looks like.  It may incorporate a workbench, it might not.  We'll just have to wait and see.  In the meantime, it seems that there are other things higher on the priority list, like story elements and other mechanics, like multi-block vehicles.