gamplay with focus in vilages

[Lucas Dos Santos]

I love this game, I bought it a few days ago and found it incredible, much better than Minecraft. For me, the game is pure immersion; I jumped in and spent hours playing, saw a sunset, and loved it. I built a straw hut on the edge of a single isolated mountain in an almost flat terrain, and of course, I called it Lonely Mountain. I spent the night making clay pots and trying to figure out how I was going to use them. Well, despite all my joy, I went through a storm from those game rifts and got attacked by some very strange creatures that threw rocks at me. I found it simply amazing, but I noticed something that I never see in games like this happening. In Minecraft, I had to install a mod to solve this, which is base defense. It would be amazing if the animals in these storms attacked constructions, and you had to build a castle with defenses, maybe even call NPCs to your village. During attacks like this, there could be a battle for the city’s defense, which could result in an incredible victory or a devastating defeat, with houses in flames. It would be cool to have a blacksmith NPC who works the metal for you while you collect resources from distant mountains, and when you return, you prepare uniforms for the war against the rift creatures that could come in increasingly heavier and more devastating waves. This would give life to multiplayer and cooperation, but with NPCs, single-player would also be amazing. You would have to take care of a small village and use resources to explore the world, like Necesse does or what was expected from Scrap Mechanic.

[Thorfinn]

Welcome to the forums!

Been suggested a lot, and to some extent I agree. though I'd prefer to leave it as mods for the time being at least. For one thing, you would have to change the spawning mechanic, since storms can spawn baddies on your face, and you presumably mean to have them spawn outside your village walls. Which means establishing some way of defining what your town walls are. And preventing you from cheesing things by creating "village walls" all over the place. Including in caverns.

And when a double-headed can easily one-shot a seraph, you need to make NPCs powerful enough to survive. So why aren't villages scattered all over the place?

But you are right. I'd like to see several people's versions of this. Maybe some of those might be configurable into something that makes sense.

 

[Deaderpan]

(before you read anything i type i want to say im certain the devs have already thought about npc villages to the point they would rather implement anything else)

i think villages in game could work really well but due to the survival mechanics of the game they would be so finely tuned it couldnt be something you could make from scratch and then request villagers to join.

i think it would be better if instead of just villages that are just out in the open that would just get decimated by wildlife and drifters, there should be small village forts, inside could be everything that the npcs need to survive and the player to trade with and because it is fortified, theoretically it can be tuned in such a way no hostile animals can break in or drifters spawn inside. and the village forts could be associated with different factions that sell and repair different faction items. they could even have a build protection that is removed if you trade enough and complete enough quests (gather a certain amount of resources for example) the build protection is removed and then its player discretion to not get everyone killed.

theoretically, i see it as a way to provide more lore/life in the world aside from traders. its rare chance of safety for new players, maybe even npcs who can teach mechanics in an alternative way to the handbook/wiki. and because its more of a fort than just an open village, it should help the npcs fit into the lore and the game mechanics more easily.

tl;dr, imo trader forts > minecraft style proceduraly generated villages

[LadyWYT]

I believe villages are going to be implemented at some point; they're on the roadmap, and the traders themselves refer to settlements of human survivors scattered about, though it's also made quite clear that such settlements are few and far between.

I don't think it's going to be a case like the other block game though, where you can just get lucky with spawning next to one and have a pre-built base, or run around the land skipping a lot of gameplay loops due to village loot(since villages are common in that game). Likewise, I also don't expect the player to be able to turn a Vintage Story settlement into their own personal...um...corporate slaves, like they can in the other block game(seriously, for those who don't know, Minecraft villager trading is notoriously overpowered and allows you to skip so much gameplay when it comes to acquiring gear).

What I would expect from a Vintage Story village is a small settlement that, while it may not be struggling to survive, it's quite small and basic, with perhaps an innate suspicion towards outsiders(especially ones that look as strange as seraphs). There's likely a dedicated guard presence to defend the villages from the supernatural mobs as well as any hostile wildlife that strays too close, as well as the usual societal lowlifes and visitors who decide that they can just do whatever they want. That is to say, I would expect some sort of reputation system, where players need to perhaps complete a few tasks for the villagers in order to open up trade options or other benefits, or otherwise see themselves barred from the settlement entirely if they decide to partake in mischief.

18 hours ago, Deaderpan said:

theoretically, i see it as a way to provide more lore/life in the world aside from traders. its rare chance of safety for new players, maybe even npcs who can teach mechanics in an alternative way to the handbook/wiki. and because its more of a fort than just an open village, it should help the npcs fit into the lore and the game mechanics more easily.

While I do like this idea, I get the feeling that villages are going to be story pieces on par with the Resonance Archive, if not even more involved than that. I could be wrong, but I think the intention of the game's story is to struggle to survive at least through the first year, and not have the option of joining "civilization" until sometime later(post-Archive exploration, at minimum). The handbook may be a bit overwhelming to new players at first, but it's still perhaps the most concise way to contain all the information a player needs about multiple gameplay concepts that frequently intertwine with one another. That's not to say an NPC couldn't provide some sort of tutorial, but I think the more story-friendly option is having NPCs perhaps reference some of the more obscure tips and tricks regarding gameplay loops.

On 9/12/2024 at 3:44 PM, Thorfinn said:

you need to make NPCs powerful enough to survive.

It's not just a question of power/toughness. They also need to be smart enough to avoid a lot of basic situations that can kill them in the first place. Otherwise, you're essentially just coding a nigh-invincible nincompoop that's going to break the player's immersion as soon as the player witnesses said NPC chilling out in a drifter mosh pit.

Incidentally, self-preservation is a huge problem for Minecraft villagers. It's not unusual for them to die from falling damage(such as being able to climb up on a roof, then jumping off...multiple times) or pricking themselves to death on nearby cacti. Or even just charging off into the nearest cave and dying to the monsters within. That's why most players end up just kidnapping villagers and shoving them in a coffin-sized jail cell, if they intend to be utilizing villager trading in their gameplay(trading with the villagers, not trading the villagers themselves).

[Deaderpan]

4 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I dont think it's going to be a case like the other block game though, where you can just get lucky with spawning next to one and have a pre-built base, or run around the land skipping a lot of gameplay loops due to village loot(since villages are common in that game). Likewise, I also don't expect the player to be able to turn a Vintage Story settlement into their own personal...um...corporate slaves, like they can in the other block game(seriously, for those who don't know, Minecraft villager trading is notoriously overpowered and allows you to skip so much gameplay when it comes to acquiring gear).

What I would expect from a Vintage Story village is a small settlement that, while it may not be struggling to survive, it's quite small and basic, with perhaps an innate suspicion towards outsiders

this is what i was trying to get at. when i say forts i dont mean grand ornate castles, i mean a small cramped village with few luxuries surrounded by walls that has the same build protections initially that traders currently have with an atmosphere that the villagers inside are barely just scrapping by and should act puzzled and surprised that the player is theoretically able to prosper so much by themselves outside the walls of a settlement.

there is a word that describes the exact type of settlement im thinking of in real life, issue is i cant spell it and cant get google to help, its pronounced something like "sea-itch", they where small fortified trading settlements around the black sea in the 16th-18th century but at the same time due to lack of infrastructure compared to western europe they where more made of mud and wood than stone and mortar.

also if everything is kept inside walls, then theoretically the devs should be able to control how the villagers behave a little better than other block game.

[ifoz]

7 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

It's not just a question of power/toughness. They also need to be smart enough to avoid a lot of basic situations that can kill them in the first place. Otherwise, you're essentially just coding a nigh-invincible nincompoop that's going to break the player's immersion as soon as the player witnesses said NPC chilling out in a drifter mosh pit.

I was leading a trader around on a tour of my base today. They were quite surprisingly competent - climbing ladders, pathing over narrow beams, etc.
That was until we made what would be our final stop at the balcony of my tower.
They approached the edge, in what I thought was an attempt to get a better look at their wagon that they could see.
The fool decides to walk straight off the edge, hit the top of the wall, and get mad with me about it. They were itching for any excuse for a fight.
I decided to make a break for it and run away back to their wagon, hoping it would break their aggro.
Apparently, my trader friend was also an Olympic sprinter, as they were already at their wagon before I was.
Apparently though, seeing my shock, they decided that we were friends once more.

Uhh, the moral of the story is that trader AI and pathing is pretty good, just needs to be fine-tuned to register damage sources correctly (I did not damage them) and not to walk off of cliffs. 

[Lucas Dos Santos]

Hey, good afternoon. I've been a bit busy the last few days, so I just saw the messages now. Well, I read some of them, and here’s the thing, I think the game is good as it is, and I found the ideas interesting. But when I imagine myself playing with those mechanics, I definitely wouldn't last more than 10 minutes with them. Personally, I liked the idea of large castles scattered around. That would be amazing, fortresses you find where you're not welcome, and you would have to work hard to earn the respect of the people in that region.

It would be cool to see caravans or remnants of humans wandering around the game world, like merchants, exploring the surroundings. The villages in Minecraft are cool, but what’s the problem with them? They're useless. It’s cool to find the first one, but after that, I don't really care about them anymore. Yes, they are facilitators, but if you’re going to put a village in a game, do it well. For example, if a stranger sneaks into your town and robs you, would you be okay with that? There could be a system like in Barotrauma, where if you enter a station and steal something, a guard might come by and "search" you. If you have an item with the stolen tag, you'll have problems.

But that’s what I see as a fun system a village with a very low spawn rate, but it still exists, or it could only appear after a certain point in the game. You can go to it, and it can have a king or some administrator. You can talk to villagers, interact, and trade gear. Of course, if you want balance, have factions sell the basics, or sell what they have. A village without forges won’t have steel to sell to you. I love a trading system where I sell something I have and buy something I need.

For example, I can produce a lot of food on my farms, but I’m on a flat pasture with few trees, so I trade food with a village for logs for my projects. That doesn’t break the game; it gives me more desire to play, and I would probably get stuck on that resource for days. As for player-made villages, that would be amazing. Vintage gives that feeling—you’re alone, something happened, and you can rebuild yourself. It's like Minecraft's mini-colonies. You can go on as a lone wolf or start a small village, build houses, ask someone to collect logs while you go mining for metals. You could have a small guard system so when an event happens, you can protect the village. If you fail, everything goes to ruins, and you have to run with what you can carry and lose part of what you had.

That would give the game more life. I would never have an endgame because, at any moment, I could lose 50% of my progress. What defines what will happen is my ability to manage everything. Or the possibility to train a guard and take him on an expedition, where he helps you in combat. In multiplayer, you could carry the banner of a rising civilization, you and four guards walking across pastures.

As for enemy spawns, well, Necesse does the following: for you to have a village, you place a flag, and from that moment on, you are a village, and village events happen to you. Your expansion revolves around a region, and the events always start at the borders of that generated square region. So, you have enemies that spawn as they always did, but when your town is attacked, all enemies are generated at the borders of that region, and their objective is to run in a straight line towards the town's flag. If there’s a wall in between, they break it, and if there’s an NPC or player, they attack. If they break the flag, your village falls, and they enter a wandering state. Since they’re in the center of the village, well, they start attacking NPCs, like how a wolf attacks an animal in Vintage that’s near it.

Necesse isn’t a village-based game; it’s basically farming, crafting, and dungeon-crawling. However, it has a village system, and you have fun managing it this chest can be used, that one can’t. I need this chest to always have 50 iron ingots, and that one to always have food. You can create a zone where you say, "This is a cow pasture," so the NPCs collect milk and store it in a chest. You can configure it so that if the number of cows exceeds X, they kill one so there are always X cows, producing meat for the village.

I could create a planting zone where they fertilize if available or water if needed. They aren’t fast, so basically, you work alongside the NPCs. They get hungry just like you, so you always have the problem of food and attacks on the village. What’s the advantage of a village? First, you get some resources automatically at the cost of having to feed those people. Second, some villagers who come to live with you can trade with other villages. So, you could produce a lot of food and tell them to sell it for you you have X amount of food and can trade it for something scarce in your region.

You can have soldiers that are stronger and have better buffs, and dungeons are very complex, so you can assemble an army of five NPCs and enter dungeons. They aren't superhuman, and you’ll likely suffer casualties, but it’s much better to fight with guards. You have to train them, arm them, and provide shelter to have a fighting force.

That’s half of what you do in a village in Necesse, and Vintage has a lot of potential to be even more immersive. I don’t think villages would break the game. Of course, if you do it like Minecraft and have a pacifist villager trade emeralds for diamond armor, you break the game. But then again, just don’t put rare items in their hands. The game owner has the source code, so they can simply blacklist some items.

Well, it's just a suggestion I had, and I would love it. I like the game and think there’s a lot more to come. It was money well spent, even though the dollar-to-my-country conversion gave me a scare. English isn’t my native language, so don’t take offense if something I wrote seemed rude.