Tool System Overhaul Suggestion

[Polis]

Flaws of the Current System:
Currently the tool system in the game is very rudimentary that lacks realism and customization. 

- Lack of realism
In real life, crafting tools or weapons—known as "hafting"—requires more than just attaching a toolhead to a handle. A proper binding material is also necessary to secure the toolhead in place, whether it’s simple cordage, sinew, or metal rivets.
- Lack of options
Customization is currently very limited. The only real choice is the toolhead material, while the handle remains unchangeable in most cases. Although bone handles are an option during the flint age, they are oddly restricted to only flint-tier tools and specifically to the axe and knife. This feels inconsistent and is a missed opportunity to add greater depth to the tool system.

Proposed System:
To address these flaws, I propose that tools be crafted using three fundamental components.

1. Toolhead
The core of the tool that determines its base durability, durability cap, mining tier, and damage (if applicable).
- Durability Cap: The maximum durability a tool can reach is defined by the toolhead. Even if a high-quality handle (like a metal rod) is used, the tool's total durability cannot exceed the toolhead's cap.
- Example: A flint toolhead paired with a metal rod will still be limited by the durability cap of flint.

2. Handle
The second most important component, which determines the swing speed and durability. Handles could be crafted from different materials, offering various benefits or trade-offs.
Examples:
- Stick: No cost, no benefit – a simple starting option.
- Treated Wooden Handle: Balanced improvements but requires more time and resources.
- Bone: Provides a slight durability buff without significant additional investment.
- Metal Rod: Grants a significant durability buff but at the cost of swing speed.

3. Binding Material
The material used to attach the toolhead to the handle serves as a modifier for handle durability:
Examples:
- Plant Fiber: Very weak material and has a slightly negative durability multiplier.
- Sinew: A neutral option with no bonuses or penalties.
- Leather: Provides a slight boost to handle durability, making it a strong mid-game choice.
- Metal Rivets: Significantly improve handle durability but require advanced resources, making them a late-game option.

Additional Mini Changes:
- Flint knives don’t require a handle to function as a tool.

Benefits of the Overhaul:
1. Increased Realism:
Crafting tools would reflect a more authentic process, enhancing immersion.
2. Enhanced Customization:
Players would have the freedom to mix and match materials for toolheads, handles, and bindings, creating tools tailored to their playstyle.
3. Freedom:
The player also has the freedom to mostly ignore this system, continuing to use basic tools without engaging in deeper customization if they prefer.

Edited December 14, 2024 by Polis

[traugdor]

I have a hammer with a hard steel head and a wooden handle. The hammer head is older than the handle because the handle has been replaced twice. If you want realism, then you need a separate durability for the different parts of the tools, which would add a bunch more complexity to the overall systems. Perhaps requiring nails to attach a metal head to a wooden handle would be in order, but having a bunch of bindings for different materials is adding a level of complexity that would only serve to increase the amount of stuff you have to carry in the already-limited bag space. I don't think this is as good of an idea as it sounds without some way to ensure that you won't become over-encumbered carrying the things you need to gather in order to craft simple tools.

[LadyWYT]

On 12/14/2024 at 5:25 PM, Polis said:

- Lack of realism
In real life, crafting tools or weapons—known as "hafting"—requires more than just attaching a toolhead to a handle. A proper binding material is also necessary to secure the toolhead in place, whether it’s simple cordage, sinew, or metal rivets.

I think adding more realism here would replace a lot of fun with tedium and frustration. Whacking a tool head onto a stick in the crafting grid might not be realistic, but it's convenient. Since the player will need to make several many tools over the course of the game, especially in the early game, having to take extra time and resources just to make said tools is going to get very old, very fast. Better to have it done in a second, so you can move on to other, more fun things.

On 12/14/2024 at 5:25 PM, Polis said:

- Lack of options
Customization is currently very limited. The only real choice is the toolhead material, while the handle remains unchangeable in most cases. Although bone handles are an option during the flint age, they are oddly restricted to only flint-tier tools and specifically to the axe and knife. This feels inconsistent and is a missed opportunity to add greater depth to the tool system.

Now this part I do agree with, mostly. Most tools I think the basic stick handle works fine enough. I'm also fine with bone handles being limited in which tools they can be applied to(short handles only), but the falx would be a good candidate for a bone handle. Likewise, it would be nice to be able to craft really fancy handles for late-game tools, such as purpleheart or ebony, that would add extra durability as well as style.

At the same time, I can also think of a good reason to NOT add that as an option. An extra 20 points of durability on a tool is strong in the stone age, but negligible otherwise. Most players don't spend a lot of time admiring their tools either, so looks aren't really that important. Fancy weapons already exist in the form of gold/silver plated items. All that would really be accomplished here, probably is recipe/item bloat. So in the end, I think I'd axe this option, in favor of putting the system resources into some other part of the game.

[Thorfinn]

Interesting idea, and presented well. I agree with the two comments above. Realism isn't a very good goal, because, like @traugdor, I have a hammer that my grandpa bought used to forge horseshoes somewhere around 1916. Grandpa probably went through a dozen handles all by himself. And the point of durability in the game is to make you go get more materials, not to be realistic.

I think it's fine for a mod, and there are some out there already that do something similar. But you know what they call code that a user doesn't ever invoke, right? Bloatware. IMO, VS should strive to have mainline functionality -- basically a glorified game engine. Beyond that experience, let everyone else choose how whatever extra mods he wants or his machine can handle.

[EDIT]

This does NOT mean it's an option in world setup. That code still resides on disk and more importantly, in memory, much like 2/3 of the crap a Windows machine ships with.

Edited December 19, 2024 by Thorfinn

[LadyWYT]

29 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

This does NOT mean it's an option in world setup. That code still resides on disk and more importantly, in memory, much like 2/3 of the crap a Windows machine ships with.

Well said. I'd also note that just because someone's machine could handle it, doesn't mean it's a good idea to leave bloatware in. Way too many modern games don't bother optimizing their software, so even if a high-end machine can handle it, it doesn't run that well in addition to shutting out those who may not have the fanciest hardware(but still better than absolute potato).

[Vinegaroon]

For tool making in the smithing process there is one mod I like. It's the anvil recovery mod. Where when you hammer out the tools rather than pour them you can recover a little bit of material. I like the idea that my little bit of extra effort is rewarded in some way. I don't know if that would be good for the base or not but perhaps a durability boost when you forge vs pour would be neat.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Vinegaroon

[RimKeeper]

I personally like the idea of adding just a bit more realism to the game by requiring a binding for tool crafting. I was actually surprised to learn this wasn't in the game already. but I can understand though if adding this would cause more problems. I would like to know if there is a mod that implements this though as i would like to add this.

[RimKeeper]

4 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I think it's fine for a mod, and there are some out there already that do something similar. But you know what they call code that a user doesn't ever invoke, right? Bloatware. IMO, VS should strive to have mainline functionality -- basically a glorified game engine. Beyond that experience, let everyone else choose how whatever extra mods he wants or his machine can handle.

Could you link the mods that add this feature to tool crafting please?

[LadyWYT]

11 minutes ago, RimKeeper said:

I personally like the idea of adding just a bit more realism to the game by requiring a binding for tool crafting. I was actually surprised to learn this wasn't in the game already. but I can understand though if adding this would cause more problems.

Welcome to the forums! It's one of those things that sounds fun at first, but consider how many tools you'll need to make in the early game, before you get to the sturdier late-game tools. It's quite a lot, and even if the animation for binding the tool pieces together(or just throwing everything into the crafting grid) only takes a few seconds each time...that's still going to add up. Whacking a tool part onto a stick isn't particularly immersive, but it's quick, and lets the player get back to whatever project has their attention.

14 minutes ago, RimKeeper said:

I would like to know if there is a mod that implements this though as i would like to add this.

This mod is probably what you're looking for: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/10324

There's also this mod: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/7081

[RimKeeper]

thank you for the suggestions and feedback

[UnholyEvangelist]

On 12/18/2024 at 6:36 PM, traugdor said:

I have a hammer with a hard steel head and a wooden handle. The hammer head is older than the handle because the handle has been replaced twice. If you want realism, then you need a separate durability for the different parts of the tools, which would add a bunch more complexity to the overall systems. Perhaps requiring nails to attach a metal head to a wooden handle would be in order, but having a bunch of bindings for different materials is adding a level of complexity that would only serve to increase the amount of stuff you have to carry in the already-limited bag space. I don't think this is as good of an idea as it sounds without some way to ensure that you won't become over-encumbered carrying the things you need to gather in order to craft simple tools.

Personally I wish once you got iron/steel the axe would dull instead of break because iron and steel axes have been known to survive generations.