bowtorns Bowtorn Funneling Concepts

[wildforester]

With 1.20 and the new enemies, the bowtorn has been the largest pain, so while I'm sure someone else will come up with something eventually I wanted to try my hand at designing a trap that can get bowtorns to the player. My concept sort of works, the pit is about the minimum distance that bowtorns will shoot from and has "staircases" to encourage moving towards the player. If the player stands still the bowtorns will eventually let water carry them to the player. 

 

While making this I also discovered that limiting a bowtorn's side to side movement will make them more likely to get to the player and try stabbing them. If the initial stretch on the pathways towards the player could move the bowtorns just enough they'd come themselves (Unfortunately, they get quite skittish if the player makes any movement).

 

Anyway, I'd love to see what other people have done to take care of bowtorns during temporal storms.

[Broccoli Clock]

Anyone who has seen this video... linkie    ..will know my "love" of bowtorns, but the room you see in that video never has anything spawn into it during a storm. I'm not sure why, I know there is a whole meta around how to stop this and it seems I've lucked out. To answer your question what do other people do? I hide in that room and watch all the nonsense play out.

Trying to "force the AI into a path" does worry me a little though, as I've been a 7 Days to Die player for over a decade (Me? Playing a survival crafting game with undead enemies? Surely not..) with their equivalent of a storm being a horde night, and it's very common for people to just cheese the AI during that.

I totally understand what you are trying to do, and there is no shade being thrown at it. I welcome your tests and I'll be watching to see what others say on the matter.

[wildforester]

Sorry, is it cheesing enemy AI that worries you? I’m having trouble making sense of that sentence…

[Thorfinn]

Interesting. While I was doing some testing, one was spawned into with much less than that. Indeed, the conventional wisdom was that where I was watching from was spawn-proof. It wasn't. If you clip he corners a bit does it help? It looks as if  the AI was pathing past the corner

Don't worry too much about  whether it's cheesy -- they will patch it out if the think it is. And some really oddball stuff has been patched out, like a way to stack barrels. Why that was game-breaking, I still do not understand.

[Broccoli Clock]

2 hours ago, wildforester said:

Sorry, is it cheesing enemy AI that worries you? I’m having trouble making sense of that sentence…

It worries me a "little", but only due to my experience with 7 Days, where the meta is all about AI pathing. 7 Days is a great game, don't get me wrong, and we are miles away from a comparison of "horde night" and "temporal storm".

44 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Don't worry too much about  whether it's cheesy -- they will patch it out if the think it is.

That gives me some comfort, although it would be disappointing to see an "arms race" between the devs patching some AI thing, only for the players to find another. We've seen that in other games.

 

In reply to you both, my comment was more musings on interacting with the AI. I'm not trying to gatekeep people from doing it (if it's possible).

[wildforester]

If the AI changes yeah, stuff will break. Anyway only way I think this concept could be continued is to find some really complicated layout of locks and drops and streams and what not that force the bowtorn toward the player. That or having them run up ladders while far from the player and getting pushed over while up high enough not to be scared.

I just though of using rafts as well, sink them in the water streams as I imagine the walking logic can’t deal with going up other entities…

I think the current best method would either be to make a tunnel that the player can run about and collect all the bowtorns with for bringing to the killing chamber or climbing up a ladder to encourage the bowtorns to come into the killing chamber (their standing range is spherical so going up will make them come closer because they really like staying within shooting range of the player).

Those are my ideas right now.

[Broccoli Clock]

I'll be honest, just make the bowtorns less of a deadly aim, perhaps with less damage from each hit, and it'll solve a lot of issues with them. In regard to the AI it's always going to be a play off between gamers and devs.

I don't mind hard/difficult enemies, I do dislike that they (of all the creatures) can 3 tap you from about 20 blocks away.

[wildforester]

I went with the last idea I mentioned, so here's what could possibly be the first bowtorn compatible trap. It's heavily based off this design (really smart how they only allow bodies to go through so you can collect the drops before the bodies decompose. I simply modified it to work with the shivers and prevent crawling drifters from getting into the center part).

Schematic (If I exported it correctly): ActiveAggressionAllEnemyTrap.json

Should note I just finished this and haven't gotten around to testing it in an actual temporal storm (due to the creative world). If drifters and what not spawn in the center adding grass clumps should stop that.

Edited March 22, 2025 by wildforester

[Broccoli Clock]

Why the large tower? Is it just so you can dip out if things get difficult?

Utilising that gap between a stone block and the fence is interesting. I have a similar gap surrounding my farm (it juts out into a lake) and nothing falls down into that gap. You'd think seeds, crops, grains would but it sees the fence as a full block, yet it seems you have no problem hitting them. I used those fences on top of cobblestone walls and it stopped all horizontal bowtorn projectiles.

Do you have an idea of how much loot you are collecting?

[wildforester]

The tower is there to allow drawing in bowtorns, in the case of a drifter/shiver getting in it probably would be a good hidey place.
The gap between the outside of the pit and fences hasn't caused any issues for me, shivers and drifters seem to enjoy dropping in, though as seen in the video bowtorns, aren't too thrilled with it (which is why there are trapdoors in the corners, to make them think they can cut the corner).

The gap between the fence and the inside of the farm is also fine, though stones can get through. It's not very common. Items can't fall through because their hitbox is too large for the gap, that's why your farm isn't losing items to the gap.

As for bowtorn projectiles, in previous testing on a different varient I had bowtorns shooting through the walls. I suspect the hitbox of their projectile is too small and occasionally can pass through the fence. Walls won't make a difference there since they're the same thickness. But bowtorn projectiles shouldn't be an issue as the bowtorns will hold off fire untill they have a clean line of fire. One thing to be careful of is their stab attack. If you get too close, they can stab through the walls. That's why in the video I stand on the inner edge of the path.

[wildforester]

I haven't gotten any count on the loot... but since boiler rooms are now 1/4 as effective in 1.20.5 and I've seen (though now I can't find it) that storms may preference one enemy over the other on random. It should be fair bonus.

Edited March 22, 2025 by wildforester

[Zane Mordien]

3 hours ago, wildforester said:

As for bowtorn projectiles, in previous testing on a different varient I had bowtorns shooting through the walls. I suspect the hitbox of their projectile is too small and occasionally can pass through the fence. 

I felt like it was 100% of the time through a fence. They blasted me when I tried to use fences to weed them out and block their line of sight.

 

3 hours ago, wildforester said:

...(though now I can't find it) that storms may preference one enemy over the other on random. It should be fair bonus.

@Thorfinnhas posted this before from the code. I finally got a 100% drifter storm AFTER I set up my base for Bowtorns, which was very annoying since I wanted to test it out.

[wildforester]

2 hours ago, Zane Mordien said:

I felt like it was 100% of the time through a fence. They blasted me when I tried to use fences to weed them out and block their line of sight.

I’ll have to see whether walls block the projectiles, currently it’s all fence to allow greater visibility to the outside

[Zane Mordien]

3 hours ago, wildforester said:

I’ll have to see whether walls block the projectiles, currently it’s all fence to allow greater visibility to the outside

Walls definitely block projectiles. I hear them thump on the walls when I stick my head out and duct back inside.

[wildforester]

Seems fences work just fine

Fences and walls probably extend from the same block in code, I'm guessing you've either been experiencing clipping or stabs. Their eye height is ~1.8

[wildforester]

Anyway, I've made a few small tweaks, I'm happy with it now. If anyone tries it out and a drifter spawns in with you, let me know. I tried to squash that issue with this revision.ActiveAggressionAllEnemyTrapV1.2.json

 

[Zane Mordien]

3 hours ago, wildforester said:

Seems fences work just fine

 

Fences and walls probably extend from the same block in code, I'm guessing you've either been experiencing clipping or stabs. Their eye height is ~1.8

Wasn't a stab since they were way to far away for that. I had the fences 2 blocks tall so it was greater than 1.8. In your screen shot it looks like you are between two solid blocks with fence in the middle. I was standing behind a wall of fences. Maybe that's a difference? I'll have to try it again sometime.

[wildforester]

With my tinkering in the other post, here's an update to the trap that should plug any theoretical leaks. If anyone uses it and an enemy spawns, let me know and say where.

ActiveAggressionAllEnemyTrapV1.3.json

[Broccoli Clock]

7 minutes ago, wildforester said:

With my tinkering in the other post, here's an update to the trap that should plug any theoretical leaks. If anyone uses it and an enemy spawns, let me know and say where.

ActiveAggressionAllEnemyTrapV1.3.json 27.88 kB · 0 downloads

You might want to check it against this release client...

Tyron: "I also finally tackled the excessive new mob spawn during temporal storms"

[wildforester]

If the changes listed are all there is, this iteration shouldn't be negatively affected. The changes only talk of rebalancing spawning, not changing spawning logic.

I may get that downloaded for my next tests if the rumors of it setting rift activity to very high are fixed. I've seen that floating around...

[Broccoli Clock]

Just now, wildforester said:

If the changes listed are all there is, this iteration shouldn't be negatively affected. The changes only talk of rebalancing spawning, not changing spawning logic.

Sure, just giving you the heads up that the RC has changes to the spawning.

[wildforester]

Psst...
For a tiny boost to the farm you can layer the entire pit with metal spikes except for in front of the trapdoors. This will help with killing the drifters, but it'll also kill you if you fall in, so don't do that.

The type of spikes you'll want are the ones on the left since you can move them around. They're found around locust nests for those unaware.