chiselling 50% Volume Requirement for Chiseled Blocks is Too Harsh

[Yukio77]

I wanted to bring up an issue with the way chiseled blocks are counted as room-enclosing walls. Right now, the requirement is that at least 50% of the block must remain for it to be considered a solid wall. I feel like this is way too strict, especially for people who like to add details to their builds.

In many cases, a wall can still look and function as a proper divider even if more than 50% of the volume is removed—especially when working with slabs or decorative chiseling. A limit of 25% or even 20% volume loss would make more sense, as long as the block still has an intact face facing the interior.

This would allow for more creative freedom without completely breaking the room detection system. What do you all think? Has anyone else run into issues with this?

[Maelstrom]

Consider we're looking for an insulating factor to the wall.  I can make a wall that divides two spaces out of paper, but will it be thermally capable of preventing heat transfer?  For me I do not have an issue with requiring at least a slab to provide sufficient thermal insulation.

[Yukio77]

I understand insulating the wall takes space, but if you look up how greenhouses look in reality they're extremely thin, sometimes even just tents. 

Perhaps there could be room tiers? This is what I would suggest:

25+% - Allows for the greenhouse bonus

50+% - Allows for the player temperature bonus

75+% - Allows for a cellar

What do you think of that? 

[Broccoli Clock]

...that is a nice looking greenhouse.

I have to admit I don't like chiselling glass, solid blocks are better to an extent but I never feel like I'm hitting the right spot when chiselling on glass. Some sort of block overlay over the block you are chiselling would help, although it's less the game's fault and more the fault of glass being "annoyingly see through".

I don't know if this YTer has an account on the official forum, but there's a nice greenhouse build that does fit the requirements and has a diagonal chiselled roof..

They are using mods for the tools, not sure which one but the cut and paste seems like a damned useful thing. It could be QP ChiselTools (https://mods.vintagestory.at/chiseltools)

[Maelstrom]

6 hours ago, Yukio77 said:

I understand insulating the wall takes space, but if you look up how greenhouses look in reality they're extremely thin, sometimes even just tents. 

Perhaps there could be room tiers? This is what I would suggest:

25+% - Allows for the greenhouse bonus

50+% - Allows for the player temperature bonus

75+% - Allows for a cellar

What do you think of that? 

I suspect it comes down to coding.  From my limited experience in writing computer code, a simple idea can turn into a nightmare of code.  I agree that greenhouses generally are just a pane of glass in a sturdy frame, but the game may impose technical limitations that may prevent a more realistic representation of a greenhouse.

[Yukio77]

Yeah... I work full time as a programmer as well, simple sounding ideas really can be a pain to implement sometimes, but that does make me think about the 50% requirement being a variable to change. 

Perhaps there's a config option or a command I don't know about?

[Maelstrom]

Nope.  Currently that 50% voxel requirement is hard coded.

[-Glue-]

For me, its only an issue when making windows. No logical house has half a meter of glass for its windows! Maybe glass blocks could have a lower volume required for insulation?

Anyways, try out this mod, it lets you turn any chiseled block into an insulating block. Its not updated to the current version, but still works just fine for me. Haven't tested it on a greenhouse yet though!
https://mods.vintagestory.at/heatretention

[Yukio77]

That seems like a really nice solution. Will definitely test out the mod once I get a chance.

[Maelstrom]

Leaded window panes can be used for houses.  To my knowledge they don't work for green houses.

[Zane Mordien]

It's annoying I'm sure for people who love to chisel but when you think about, do you really need it to be a room or a greenhouse? Greenhouses aren't really required in the base game. You can grow so much food in the regular months that it isn't a real issue so I wouldn't worry about it so much and just create what your heart desires because in the end it just has to look cool. The green house function is only needed once you start living in colder climates where the growing season is much shorter and you need every day you can get to grow food. It's the same with rooms. I usually only worry about having one "room" in my house that the game recognizes. That's where I spend my time crafting in the winter months. The other rooms are just storage, decoration or the windmill/mechanical area. I don't hang out in those rooms.

Maybe in the future they will make angled window or glass pieces to help out. 

32 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Leaded window panes can be used for houses.  To my knowledge they don't work for green houses.

Now that I would consider silly and needs fixed in the code.

[Maelstrom]

I don't do the greenhouse thing.  For all I know leaded panes work just dandy in a greenhouse.  Try it and see.

[JessieImproved]

For posterity, here is me in my greenhouse that uses a bunch of leaded glass.  Note the greenhouse icon.

[Dark Thoughts]

Yeah, leaded glass panes definitely work for greenhouses. The problem is that they are only square in their form. It just is nonsensical that a 1 block thick glass "pane" is insulating, but a chiseled block of the same thickness is not. Hell, most houses had chimneys, Nordic longhouses rather big ones even above their hearths, and their homes were still warmer than outside. A bit of a hole isn't going to completely turn your indoor temperatures to outside temperatures, like it works in the game. The new chimney blocks are cool and all, but also severely limited, as they are pretty much only for one story buildings and you cannot integrate them into something like a Nordic A-frame house with a cutout roof in the middle. Used trapdoors previously to "seal" them but now that we got solid trapdoors, the grated ones don't seal anymore either, making it kinda impossible.

[Maelstrom]

At this point it's a case of the game has to give up some reality to either keep things fun, or in this case, keep the coding load as small as possible.