Hytale Fans, you are very welcome here!

[Bumber]

1 hour ago, Rudometkin said:

Presumably those same people have accepted the tool durability mechanic. They don't think it's a cringe robbery of time to have to make new tools. Yet a torch is a tool.

The obvious difference is that you aren't carrying the torches with you, and they'd be losing durability while you aren't even around. So you'd have to walk around replacing each and every single one when they burn out.

Worse, there's a creeper waiting for you, and the next thing you know there's a hole in the side of your house, your chest contents spilled about. (Hope there isn't a second one to blast those items into non-existence.) TOBG is actually less forgiving in this respect.

Do you keep your base lit with basic torches in VS? I doubt it. Torch holders and lanterns exist.

Edited July 12, 2025 by Bumber

[Vratislav]

1 hour ago, Rudometkin said:

Presumably those same people have accepted the tool durability mechanic. They don't think it's a cringe robbery of time to have to make new tools.

Mending, bro...  
MC late game playstyle is almost Creative mode, after you have farms for everything, there is very little difference. I have built 200 x 60 x 30 Ephesus temple from quartz once. 

[Bumber]

1 minute ago, Vratislav said:

Mending, bro...

To be fair, the great torch debate happened before enchantments existed.

[Rudometkin]

23 minutes ago, Bumber said:

The obvious difference is that you aren't carrying the torches with you,

I always did.

23 minutes ago, Bumber said:

and they'd be losing durability while you aren't even around.

This is due to the upside to torches.

They are useful even when you aren't engaging with them. Other tools are only useful while you actively hold them. The use of torches is to provide light. Using torches is having them placed.

They are similar because they would lose durability while you use them, just like with other tools.

23 minutes ago, Bumber said:

Do you keep your base lit with basic torches in VS? I doubt it.

Yes.

23 minutes ago, Bumber said:

Torch holders and lanterns exist.

And lanterns exist in MC, too.

 

Edited July 12, 2025 by Rudometkin
Responded to the edit

[Rudometkin]

28 minutes ago, Bumber said:

Worse, there's a creeper waiting for you, and the next thing you know there's a hole in the side of your house, your chest contents spilled about. (Hope there isn't a second one to blast those items into non-existence.) TOBG is actually less forgiving in this respect.

A large part of my point is that if creepers were added into Minecraft today, thousands, if not millions of players would say it ruins the game. Tedium, tedium, tedium. Can't even leave my base without the possibility of a green explosive plant monster that blends in with the grass sneaking up behind me and blowing up my base.

People don't get it. They fall in love with solid videogame features, and then spend the rest of their time hating on more solid videogame features in the same theme, while keeping a deathgrip on the ones they accepted. They accepted them because those ones were in the game first.

[Bumber]

31 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

I always did.

MC TOBG torches don't provide light when held. You have to have them placed everywhere to prevent mob spawns. This easily amounts to hundreds of torches.

Edit: Yes, you can carry torches for the purpose of replacing them, but the ones you're replacing are all over your livestock pens, etc.

Edit II: It would be particularly bad if you lit up the entire underground to force mobs to spawn elsewhere.

31 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

Yes.

Really? How many torches do you light your base with?

31 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

And lanterns exist in MC, too.

Why wouldn't candles and lanterns burn out all the same? You'd need glowstone or something.

Edited July 12, 2025 by Bumber

[Rudometkin]

14 minutes ago, Bumber said:

MC torches don't provide light when held.

Well okay, so what?

Are you arguing that the only reason VS torch burnout is justified is because the light emits while you are holding the torch?

14 minutes ago, Bumber said:

You have to have them placed everywhere to prevent mob spawns. This easily amounts to hundreds of torches.

It sounds like you are arguing against torches in general now. MC already requires you to place torches everywhere to prevent mob spawns, amounting to hundreds of torches if you want to secure large areas.

MC also requires you to make loads and loads of tools if you want to landscape a large area. If you want to use less tools, upgrade them. Same goes for lighting. It's a solid system.

14 minutes ago, Bumber said:

Really? How many torches do you light your base with?

Which base? It depends on the size of my base. I don't limit myself to a set number of torches to light my bases. That would be weird!

14 minutes ago, Bumber said:

Why wouldn't candles and lanterns burn out all the same? You'd need glowstone or something.

Do you want logic? Candles are made of a different material, and lanterns are encased to block wind. Why? The point is there can be upgraded light sources that are meant for a more dynamic and immersive survival system.

-----------

But I'm not intending to derail this thread. I'd rather it be more about Vintage Story than a Minecraft debate.

I'm glad more people are discovering VS. It has a bright future ahead.

Edited July 12, 2025 by Rudometkin

[Bumber]

18 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

Well okay, so what?

Are you arguing that the only reason VS torch burnout is justified is because the light emits while you are holding the torch?

VS torches don't even burn out while holding them, so no. VS torches are meant for temporary lighting, and are therefore extremely cheap.

Before charcoal, TOBG torches required you to mine for coal. Non-renewable.

18 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

It sounds like you are arguing against torches in general now. MC already requires you to place torches everywhere to prevent mob spawns, amounting to hundreds of torches if you want to secure large areas.

Now imagine replacing hundreds of torches every few days. How much time would you have time to do anything else?

18 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

Which base? It depends on the size of my base. I don't limit myself to a set number of torches to light my bases. That would be weird!

Seems like you're dodging the question. What's the largest base you've lit in such a way?

If there's no limit, is replacing 1000 torches every 48 hours doable for you?

18 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

Do you want logic? Candles are made of a different material, and lanterns are encased to block wind. Why? The point is there can be upgraded light sources that are meant for a more dynamic and immersive survival system.

You say they're upgraded light sources, but candles and lanterns aren't particularly harder to get in TOBG. Iron is the first ore available, easily doable before your first night. You'd just use torches for exploring caves, then pick them back up once you reached a dead end.

Edited July 12, 2025 by Bumber

[Rudometkin]

13 minutes ago, Bumber said:

VS torches don't even burn out while holding them, so no. VS torches are meant for temporary lighting, and are therefore extremely cheap.

Before charcoal, TOBG torches required you to mine for coal. Non-renewable.

Fantastic.

13 minutes ago, Bumber said:

Now imagine replacing hundreds of torches every few days.

Or, imagine upgrading your light source.

13 minutes ago, Bumber said:

How much time would you have time to do anything else?

That depends on how large the area I am lighting is.

13 minutes ago, Bumber said:

Seems like you're dodging the question. What's the largest base you've lit in such a way?

I couldn't dodge the question, because it wasn't even aimed at me. It was too vague. So I asked a logically prior question. You mentioned a base, I need to know which base you are referring to before I can answer.

Now you switch the question. Largest base? IDK, this big: <---------->

13 minutes ago, Bumber said:

If there's no limit, is replacing 1000 torches every 48 hours doable for you?

Not sure. Why?

Sounds like you're using an example of an enormous project to make the idea of torches burning out a poor idea.

13 minutes ago, Bumber said:

You say they're upgraded light sources, but candles and lanterns aren't particularly harder to get in TOBG.

I say they could be made to be upgraded. Maybe they should look into making it more difficult to obtain those upgraded light sources then. Idc, I'm interested in VS.

13 minutes ago, Bumber said:

Iron is the first ore available, easily doable before your first night. You'd just use torches for exploring caves, then pick them back up once you reached a dead end.

Great!

Edited July 12, 2025 by Rudometkin

[Bumber]

2 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

I couldn't dodge the question, because it wasn't even aimed at me. It was too vague. So I asked a logically prior question. You mentioned a base, I need to know which base you are referring to before I can answer.

You affirmed that you keep your base lit with torches. The intention was to demonstrate the impracticality of doing so at scale.

But you're obviously arguing in bad faith, and I'm done with you.

[Rudometkin]

35 minutes ago, Bumber said:

You affirmed that you keep your base lit with torches. The intention was to demonstrate the impracticality of doing so at scale.

That just makes me curious, why establish the impracticality? We already have upgraded light sources. If it becomes impractical, why not just use the upgraded light sources? That is why they were provided to us

The reason I keep my base lit with standard torches is because I'm in a wilderness survival world that keeps yeeting my character all over the map.

35 minutes ago, Bumber said:

But you're obviously arguing in bad faith, and I'm done with you.

You say I'm arguing in bad faith, and I'm over here trying not to argue. So bizarre, man. I can't get along with people. I think I need to just leave the forums.  

It's unfortunate you see it that way. It's also unfair for you to assume my intentions.

I wouldn't dare assume your intentions far enough to accuse you like that.

I'm actually genuine and discuss in good faith. Let's keep this thread positive so the Hytale fans can see we're a healthy community!  

Edited July 12, 2025 by Rudometkin
Refined

[Voldemort]

@TyronYou should close this discussion too. It's getting wild here.

[Maelstrom]

For MC I agree with most of those responses.   MC is not a survival game and for the feel of that game torch burnout is annoying.  But I much prefer VS because of the different feel from MC.

[Rudometkin]

22 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

For MC I agree with most of those responses.   MC is not a survival game and for the feel of that game torch burnout is annoying.  But I much prefer VS because of the different feel from MC.

6 months ago I would have argued MC is a survival game.

But now I don't care, MC can do what it wants. I have VS now  

Edited July 12, 2025 by Rudometkin

[Rudometkin]

2 hours ago, Adnyeus said:

@TyronYou should close this discussion too. It's getting wild here.

I don't think it's getting wild, but posting some Tom and Jerry tomfoolery certainly escalates and makes it look like it is.

I think we can all maintain a relevant and mature discussion from here.

At the very least, I think Hytale fans will come to this thread and say, "Man, these VS folks certainly are an interesting bunch! Maybe I ought to join and check it out"  

Edited July 12, 2025 by Rudometkin

[Voldemort]

11 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

You say I'm arguing in bad faith, and I'm over here trying not to argue. So bizarre, man. I can't get along with people. I think I need to just leave the forums.  

passive aggressive messages + bad faith

25 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

I don't think it's getting wild, but posting some Tom and Jerry tomfoolery certainly escalates and makes it look like it is.

you living in own fantasy 

Edited July 12, 2025 by Adnyeus

[Voldemort]

11 hours ago, Bumber said:

But you're obviously arguing in bad faith, and I'm done with you.

Yep he is

Edited July 12, 2025 by Adnyeus

[Maelstrom]

1 hour ago, Rudometkin said:

I don't think it's getting wild, but posting some Tom and Jerry tomfoolery certainly escalates and makes it look like it is.

I think we can all maintain a relevant and mature discussion from here.

At the very least, I think Hytale fans will come to this thread and say, "Man, these VS folks certainly are an interesting bunch! Maybe I ought to join and check it out"  

Some of the noobs are being dramatic. Fortunately, a lot of that drama was contained in the thread that is now locked.  Hopefully, the dramatic ones will look in the mirror and make appropriate adjustments.

[Enjen]

Hytale Fans!
If you haven't already, check out this News Post that Tyron (creator of Vintage Story) has to say about a new idea/project that might appeal to your community! May you find a home here in the forums and with Vintage Story itself!

 

Edited July 12, 2025 by Enjen

[Raiback]

Vintage History is the game many of us have dreamed of. Although we hope for more content and there are still many things to polish, its foundation is better than many games that release as full versions. Progress might be slow, but it's very satisfying and makes you feel proud of everything you achieve.

[Facethief]

4 hours ago, Raiback said:

Vintage History is the game many of us have dreamed of. Although we hope for more content and there are still many things to polish, its foundation is better than many games that release as full versions. Progress might be slow, but it's very satisfying and makes you feel proud of everything you achieve.

Why is this written like a thesis for an essay? And why is it formatted like that?

[Rudometkin]

On 7/13/2025 at 10:13 AM, Facethief said:

Why is this written like a thesis for an essay? And why is it formatted like that?

Must be a Vintage History thing.

I tease, some people have different styles and like to stand out more in their writing. That's okay.

Edited July 15, 2025 by Rudometkin

[Pervy]

On 7/12/2025 at 11:42 PM, Rudometkin said:

6 months ago I would have argued MC is a survival game.

But now I don't care, MC can do what it wants. I have VS now  

Minecraft didt always have mobs. And the free version you use to be able to download for free, with a limited grid, also didt have mobs.
Minecrafts is just as much a survival game as rust is a survival game, very light.

[BossGalaga]

I came here when I heard about this deep, challenging, expansive Minecraft-like. And it's a rewarding challenge! I'm a liker of rogues so this right up my alley. And challenge was one of the major things missing from Minecraft. It's still a great game, and I was pleasantly surprised to see Mojang has done some great work on it since MS bought it. A lot of what Hytale promised has been made moot by Minecraft updates (Java, particularly). The mining element in VS also reminds me of games I once enjoyed like Project Entropia (a soul-sucking cashgrab) and Firefall.

I somehow missed out on the fact that this game has existed for six(?) years but thank goodness. I completed a degree recently, and I don't know if I could have graduated with honors or at all if I had been playing Vintage Story then. I'm a retired and disabled veteran too, and VS has been really therapeutic for me. It feels both cozy and challenging. I just purchased VS recently, and I'm not gonna lie, it's been a while since I've felt this way about a game. 

For VS, I'm looking forward to seeing future updates, more integration of great ideas and mods from the community, and how the mod scene itself evolves, too.

Edited July 16, 2025 by BossGalaga

[Michaloid]

37 minutes ago, BossGalaga said:

I somehow missed out on the fact that this game has existed for six(?) years

9 actually, VS turns 10 next year. And the roadmap will give you a hint of what's to come.

Edited July 16, 2025 by Michaloid