Farming Suggestions

[Rudometkin]

12 hours ago, majestik said:

Between the other farming thread and this one, I've come to realise that I am totally on the team "ok to invest a bit of time to set up fields but i don't want to play a farming simulator".

To be fair, Vintage Story is a farming simulator. It simulates farming. Ofcourse the richness of the farming simulator is the debate.

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I think if VS farming included weeds, mulch, and blight from the very beginning, then the vast majority of us here would be saying, "Farming is totally fine how it is" in regard to the weeds, mulch, and blight.

I think we learn the complex systems of a game, figure out how to manage everything given the systems we learned to deal with, and then we fall in love with it. Then we try to close the doors on any development paths that shake up the systems we learned. We get comfortable with current systems and start to become outspoken against adding complexity to those systems, as if it would be a nightmare and destroy the game. When it is really just more of the complex systems we fell in love with to begin with. The end result is that we don't allow a game that is in heavy development to grow. We act like it is already completed. Already capped out.

 

That's what makes people like Tyron solid game designers. They keep their options open. They know they can add mechanics like plant disease and make it work in the larger picture. They understand that rebalancing (making the game harder sometimes; as some call it, 'punishing' the player), is natural for games in heavy development.

What we call "punishing" the player, a game designer calls "rebalancing".

[majestik]

10 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

To be fair, Vintage Story is a farming simulator. It simulates farming. Ofcourse the richness of the farming simulator is the debate.

Well, the game is presented as a survival game ; and beside, people gets what i am saying and i think this is the most important thing 

 

10 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

We get comfortable with current systems (...)

I think it really depends on the system and the player. To take an exemple that is not farming, i can't put my head around prospecting. I don't like the system as it is, even after hours of watching/reading tutorials, tests on worlds, installing mods. That part of the game really isn't confortable for me, even if i like the general idea the devs had with this system. If someone come and suggested adding complexity to prospecting i really won't enthousiatic for it.

To go back to farming, at least for the suggestions I made, the idea isn't really adding complexity here but adding alternative for things already existing (irrigation/temperature regulation). As other have pointed, there need to be balance between all the aspects of the game (exploration/caving, mining/smithing, farming, base building etc.) and if you add complexity in one aspect, you take the risk to break that balance.

[Rudometkin]

2 hours ago, majestik said:

...and if you add complexity in one aspect, you take the risk to break that balance.

Yes I agree, it would need to be handled carefully. It is achievable however. 

I am a fan of the toggle options. It's hard for me to imagine adding "dynamic crops" as a toggle option would be a bad idea.

[majestik]

Yeah, a toggle option could be a compromise.

[Zane Mordien]

Wilderness survival would be a good place for this type of farming to be in by default since it is the more hard-core settings. Strangely I would actually probably use this setting if it was an option, but I don't think it should be the default.

[Thorfinn]

TBH, this whole business strikes me as new year's resolutions. Yeah, there are a trivial number of people who manage to keep them, but mostly it's all talk. People on my server and I constitute at least 20 out of the 300-ish downloads. We gave it a try, and the decision to get rid of it was unanimous.

Are there any (other) servers out there who have ever tried it? Do they still have it? Are there any streamers using it? We tried it, and it went over like a fart in an elevator.

[EDIT]

Maybe we weren't doing it properly. Can any of you who believe in this make a recording of the actual gameplay? Maybe we did things the hard way, and it didn't suck nearly as badly as we thought. I'd like to echo @traugdor in a kind of related way -- the ball is in your court. Don't make the case. Show us how great it is.

Edited July 12, 2025 by Thorfinn

[Rudometkin]

2 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Maybe we weren't doing it properly. Can any of you who believe in this make a recording of the actual gameplay? Maybe we did things the hard way, and it didn't suck nearly as badly as we thought. I'd like to echo @traugdor in a kind of related way -- the ball is in your court. Don't make the case. Show us how great it is.

I could make a video of it. I'm willing to try it sometime. Could either be a long play, or a highly edited "1 year farming in VS with X mod". Either way it would take time. If I am successful in learning, I will made my own mod that incorporates ideas like this. In that case I would definitely make a series of playthroughs with my mod.

But I can't see myself making a video with the goal to change anyone's mind. When the objection is, "that's tedious", it is practically an irrefutable objection, because tedium is subjective. Probably the best I can do is show that other beloved mechanics are also "tedious" by the same standards that these suggestions are being judged by. Hope that makes sense.

[Thorfinn]

13 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

But I can't see myself making a video with the goal to change anyone's mind.

I don't care to be persuaded. I just want to be shown in the best possible light how it works. The closest we got absolutely sucked! It would be more exciting to require one to use the watering can, like in Stardew Valley. Yes, the watering can sucked, but it's not like the rest of the game was edge of your seat action. The map in Stardew was static. The one in VS is always something new. "Oh, I don't want to see pretty terrain if it means I can't manage crop blight."

It's not so much that it is tedious, though I think it is, but rather that the game has SO MUCH ELSE that is vastly better. No matter how thrilling you make farming, I don't think it can hold a candle to the rest of the game.

[Rudometkin]

On 7/12/2025 at 4:48 AM, majestik said:

Well, the game is presented as a survival game ; and beside, people gets what i am saying and i think this is the most important thing 

This is fair, and yes it is important that we understand what each other are meaning. But on the other hand, what is also important (most people don't look this deep into it), there is a particular atmosphere we create (whether intentionally or unintentionally) when we say things like we "don't want Vintage Story to be a farming simulator".

It creates the illusion that Vintage Story is not actually a farming simulator. This works in the favor of people who don't want farming updates. This is why I proclaim Vintage Story is a farming simulator - by simulating farming. To clarify any illusion that may arise.

And you had totally good intentions, but that verbiage leads to people (perhaps unintentionally) using it to dismiss the idea, which could lead to it not being added into the game. I'm just suggesting, this is why words matter. And what you said is fair enough. But also what I said is fair. I promise I don't correct you to be petty. Communication is a game of chess, and I'm trying to play some right moves to make sure this farming suggestion is given a fair chance, while also not coming off as a rude guy.

On 7/12/2025 at 4:48 AM, majestik said:

I think it really depends on the system and the player.

Yeah I agree, totally.

[Rudometkin]

14 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I don't care to be persuaded. I just want to be shown in the best possible light how it works. The closest we got absolutely sucked! It would be more exciting to require one to use the watering can, like in Stardew Valley. Yes, the watering can sucked, but it's not like the rest of the game was edge of your seat action. The map in Stardew was static. The one in VS is always something new. "Oh, I don't want to see pretty terrain if it means I can't manage crop blight."

Okay, how did it suck? I'm just curious. Like what were the details of your experience with the farming?

14 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

It's not so much that it is tedious, though I think it is, but rather that the game has SO MUCH ELSE that is vastly better. No matter how thrilling you make farming, I don't think it can hold a candle to the rest of the game.

"Hey, Thorfinn, you're the farmer for this season. We're counting on you."

*Come winter time*

"Where's all the food?!"

"Thorfinn let the crops die. Yeah, he screamed, "YOLO!" and then hopped in a raft to see what seashells he could collect from another continent. He said anything would've been better than being chained up in that meddling garden."

"WTF"

Whole tribe dies of starvation

Thorfinn comes back with seashells

Where did everybody go

 

[Thorfinn]

6 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

Okay, how did it suck?

It wasn't fun. It reminded me of those learning activities my kids had back on Win95. Click on the thing that's different. Now do it again. Again. Again. Keep doing that for the next 12 hours. There was nothing challenging or interesting about it. It was just mindless clicking. Think about what you are asking for. Look for the crop that is blighted. Click on it. Look for the crop with weeds. Click on it. That can't be what you really want. That's just a preschool activity meant to train eye-hand coordination.

You do realize this is not real life, don't you? This is what you do for enjoyment, during leisure hours. The goal is to have fun. That was not fun. You won't even try it to see if you actually like it, or if the anticipation far exceeds what the function can possibly deliver.

Y'know what? This whole conversation is even less fun that. Consider me backing out, having thought all the correct profanity while doing so.

 

[Rudometkin]

23 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

It wasn't fun. It reminded me of those learning activities my kids had back on Win95. Click on the thing that's different. Now do it again. Again. Again. Keep doing that for the next 12 hours. There was nothing challenging or interesting about it. It was just mindless clicking. Think about what you are asking for. Look for the crop that is blighted. Click on it. Look for the crop with weeds. Click on it. That can't be what you really want. That's just a preschool activity meant to train eye-hand coordination.

You do realize this is not real life, don't you? This is what you do for enjoyment, during leisure hours. The goal is to have fun. That was not fun. You won't even try it to see if you actually like it, or if the anticipation far exceeds what the function can possibly deliver.

Y'know what? This whole conversation is even less fun that. Consider me backing out, having thought all the correct profanity while doing so.

 

Sorry, were you offended by my post or question? I didn't mean to cause any profane thoughts. Just wanting some insight to the experiment you guys had with the mod and having some fun.

Yeah, I'll respect your desire to back out. But I'd love to continue the discussion about how maybe it could be made more interesting than just clicking a bunch, if you wanted to.

 

[Arcane Gunslinger]

On 7/11/2025 at 9:09 AM, traugdor said:

(because that's what mulch is for, not water retention... did ANY of you study how gardening works first???)

It's pretty weird for you to be accusing people of not "studying" how gardening works in the first place when what you're saying shows a really narrow view of it. No, mulch is for water retention and in dry or desert climates, that’s actually the main reason it’s used.

In hot, arid environments, water evaporates from the soil almost immediately. If you don't mulch, you're losing moisture faster than you can replace it, and nothing will germinate or survive. Mulch traps that moisture, keeps the soil cooler, and gives seeds a fighting chance. That’s not some niche technique, it’s basic practice in dryland gardening and it’s been used for generations across the world in places where water is limited.

In fact, Mulching as a practice started primarily in dryland and arid regions where water conservation was critical for any kind of successful agriculture or gardening. The main goal in those environments was to retain moisture, protect the soil from intense heat and erosion, and give plants a fighting chance in harsh conditions.

Over time, as mulching proved effective, the technique spread to more temperate and even wetter climates. In those zones, the benefits expanded beyond water retention to include weed suppression, soil temperature regulation, and organic matter addition. But the origin of mulching lies in dryland agriculture; it was born out of necessity where water was scarce, not as a general gardening convenience.

Gardening isn’t universal. It’s shaped by climate, soil, and resources. What works in your backyard doesn’t necessarily work in a place where it hasn’t rained in weeks and the sun is baking the ground to dust. So before you call people out for not knowing what they’re doing, maybe take a step back and realize you might be missing the bigger picture.

Edited July 14, 2025 by Arcane Gunslinger

[majestik]

10 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

but that verbiage leads to people (perhaps unintentionally) using it to dismiss the idea, which could lead to it not being added into the game.

You give me way too much credit, man. I am just a rando on the internet, and I don't think that whatever I am saying on the forum has an influence on the decision-making for the game. We are just discussing and making points, but in the end the decision is out of our hands.

Edited July 14, 2025 by majestik

[Facethief]

5 hours ago, Arcane Gunslinger said:

It's pretty weird for you to be accusing people of not "studying" how gardening works in the first place when what you're saying shows a really narrow view of it. No, mulch is for water retention and in dry or desert climates, that’s actually the main reason it’s used.

In hot, arid environments, water evaporates from the soil almost immediately. If you don't mulch, you're losing moisture faster than you can replace it, and nothing will germinate or survive. Mulch traps that moisture, keeps the soil cooler, and gives seeds a fighting chance. That’s not some niche technique, it’s basic practice in dryland gardening and it’s been used for generations across the world in places where water is limited.

In fact, Mulching as a practice started primarily in dryland and arid regions where water conservation was critical for any kind of successful agriculture or gardening. The main goal in those environments was to retain moisture, protect the soil from intense heat and erosion, and give plants a fighting chance in harsh conditions.

Over time, as mulching proved effective, the technique spread to more temperate and even wetter climates. In those zones, the benefits expanded beyond water retention to include weed suppression, soil temperature regulation, and organic matter addition. But the origin of mulching lies in dryland agriculture; it was born out of necessity where water was scarce, not as a general gardening convenience.

Gardening isn’t universal. It’s shaped by climate, soil, and resources. What works in your backyard doesn’t necessarily work in a place where it hasn’t rained in weeks and the sun is baking the ground to dust. So before you call people out for not knowing what they’re doing, maybe take a step back and realize you might be missing the bigger picture.

You did read the part where they corrected themselves, right?

[Teh Pizza Lady]

9 hours ago, Arcane Gunslinger said:

It's pretty weird for you to be accusing people of not "studying" how gardening works in the first place when what you're saying shows a really narrow view of it. No, mulch is for water retention and in dry or desert climates, that’s actually the main reason it’s used.

It's pretty weird of you to go and post that and not read the rest of the thread where someone corrected me with much kinder words and I apologized to everyone for being so adamantly wrong about it, but you do you coo ca choo.

[Rudometkin]

1 hour ago, traugdor said:

It's pretty weird of you to go and post that and not read the rest of the thread where someone corrected me with much kinder words and I apologized to everyone for being so adamantly wrong about it, but you do you coo ca choo.

I think Arcane Gunslinger's message is fair and logical. Could certainly still be a teaching moment.  

Edited July 14, 2025 by Rudometkin

[Teh Pizza Lady]

10 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

I think Arcane Gunslinger's message is fair and logical. Could certainly still be a teaching moment.  

It was a lecture given 3 days after the teaching moment already happened. I already corrected myself and apologized. His response and yours were unwanted and unwarranted. Please find somewhere else to troll.

[Thorfinn]

13 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

Sorry, were you offended by my post or question?

What makes you think I was offended? I'm just completely frustrated telling you the same thing again and again, slightly changing things so maybe the point will get across. It's just not fun. There are more enjoyable things to do in the game. It's not a challenge. It's distracting from more important (to me) game loops. It's just random punishment. It's a phenomenal waste of time, and virtually everyone agrees with me.

How many different ways of phrasing it does it take?

And the solutions make little sense, either. "Oh, just use lime." Yes, and do you have any idea how often people complain about not being able to find lime? Why not just tell them to hop on down to the grocer and trade a few blocks of dirt for pies?

For the love of Pete, try the mod! Until you do, I don't care to read any more of your bloviating about this.

[Rudometkin]

41 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

For the love of Pete, try the mod!

Would it matter to you what world settings I try the mod in?

[Arcane Gunslinger]

5 hours ago, traugdor said:

It's pretty weird of you to go and post that and not read the rest of the thread where someone corrected me with much kinder words and I apologized to everyone for being so adamantly wrong about it, but you do you coo ca choo.

You set the tone to begin with, didn’t you? So I don’t think you have much ground to act offended by my response. Your original wording came off as dismissive and condescending, speaking to others as if they were ignorant, when in fact, you were the one who was misinformed.

That said, I did notice you apologized later, and I want to acknowledge that. I’d also like to apologize in return. It was late, I didn’t read further, and I shouldn’t have been as snappy as I was. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

8 minutes ago, Arcane Gunslinger said:

You set the tone to begin with, didn’t you?

I don't really think that is a relevant argument to make in an online forum where all tone is lost behind the text. I was mostly joking with my comment and if you had taken two seconds to look at my profile you would see that the majority of reactions that people give me are to laugh at the humor in my posts. I understand it may have triggered you to make the response in the same way you did, but that was your choice to respond in the way you did, just like it was my choice to mimic your wording in my response, which you found to be me acting offended. I can only draw the conclusion that my lame attempt at a joke offended you... not sorry for making the joke, but do apologize if it offended you. You only have 7 posts, so starting out on the forums guns-a-blazing isn't a good look especially with other bad actors running around shooting their mouths off with utter disregard for their fellow humans behind keyboards. Something something throw your words back at you blah blah blah take a second to step back and see the bigger picture.   

For what it's worth, apology accepted.  

TL;DR: I would have been very easy to match your wording and be a stick in the mud, and attack every word in your post. However, we are but humans behind keyboards. The harder road to take is to acknowledge our own faults and make amends where we can while trying to find the light in these dark times. "If you only do what is easy, your life will be hard."

Edited July 14, 2025 by traugdor

[Arcane Gunslinger]

3 minutes ago, traugdor said:

I don't really think that is a relevant argument to make in an online forum where all tone is lost behind the text. I was mostly joking with my comment and if you had taken two seconds to look at my profile you would see that the majority of reactions that people give me are to laugh at the humor in my posts. I understand it may have triggered you to make the response in the same way you did, but that was your choice to respond in the way you did, just like it was my choice to mimic your wording in my response, which you found to be me acting offended. I can only draw the conclusion that my lame attempt at a joke offended you... not sorry for making the joke, but do apologize if it offended you. You only have 7 posts, so starting out on the forums guns-a-blazing isn't a good look especially with other bad actors running around shooting their mouths off with utter disregard for their fellow humans behind keyboards.

For what it's worth, apology accepted.  Something something throw your words back at you blah blah blah take a second to step back and see the bigger picture.   

You're not wrong, I did react poorly, probably for much the same reason you did as well. It's an unfortunate aspect of online these days. Even if at the time I did feel  I was matching a tone that I felt you set, it was rather childish of me to match it back. I could have worded things differently in return. I am human, unfortunately, and we all have moments of fault. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

Anyway back to making farming harder so we don't have to do the story content!

[Facethief]

Ok, guys, hear me out: grass could slow the growth of nearby crops, so there’s some incentive to clean up your farmland, and fallow farmland will grow grass on nearby dirt. This way, as long as you have crops growing and you’ve taken the time to prepare your farmland, you can leave for as long as you like, but if you don’t have anything on your farm, such as during winter, or if you’ve messily set it up, you’ll have a small amount of maintenance to do.