v1.21.0-rc.5/rc.6 - Story Chapter 2 Redux

[Krougal]

2 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

 

Exactly!  Those wide open expanses of sparse or no vegetation are totally unrealistic.   It's not like the earth where there's no such things as the Gobi and Sahara deserts, or the United States southwest.  Oh wait.

I don't think the complaint is over realism or not, it's playability.

At least to me. I find huge expanses of gravel boring and useless.

Especially if I start in the center of km and km of it.

I guess some people don't. Yes, it's very subjective.

[LadyWYT]

45 minutes ago, AlexRavencrown said:

Heya, I just came back on the game after a long break and was planning on making a new permanent singleplayer save, and I wanted to know of how soon-ish are we talking about for the 1.21 stable to come out, something like near the end of the month maybe ? That way I'll know if I just have to wait patiently or if I could start now.

It depends on how many more bugs there are that need swatting before the devs can consider things stable.

[Maelstrom]

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

I don't think the complaint is over realism or not, it's playability.

At least to me. I find huge expanses of gravel boring and useless.

Especially if I start in the center of km and km of it.

I guess some people don't. Yes, it's very subjective.

And VS is supposed to be easy?!   I've found a very good use for gravel/sandy plains.   Tree farms for my massive charcoal pit.   It is much easier to make sure all the seeds are collected to replant the next batch of trees.

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

And VS is supposed to be easy?!   I've found a very good use for gravel/sandy plains.   Tree farms for my massive charcoal pit.   It is much easier to make sure all the seeds are collected to replant the next batch of trees.

Easy or not is subjective too. Some of us just don't feel like scouting several hundred square km before we find basic resources.

I suppose that is a good use for it. Hey, anyway was looking for you, that's not what I want to talk about, I want to talk about windmills, you said you run with 4, how do you hook them up? Do you use a gearbox? I just went to 4 and I am not getting any more speed than 2...not even sure if I am getting more torque or not. Of course the windspeed is still all wonky with rc6.

 

 

[yanlong]

8 hours ago, AlexRavencrown said:

Heya, I just came back on the game after a long break and was planning on making a new permanent singleplayer save, and I wanted to know of how soon-ish are we talking about for the 1.21 stable to come out, something like near the end of the month maybe ? That way I'll know if I just have to wait patiently or if I could start now.
嗨，我刚刚在长时间休息后重新回到游戏中，并计划创建一个新的永久单人游戏存档。我想知道1.21稳定版什么时候发布，比如月底左右？这样我就知道我是需要耐心等待还是现在就可以开始。

At that time, just upgrade the archive accordingly

[Maelstrom]

8 hours ago, Krougal said:

I want to talk about windmills, you said you run with 4, how do you hook them up? Do you use a gearbox? I just went to 4 and I am not getting any more speed than 2...not even sure if I am getting more torque or not. Of course the windspeed is still all wonky with rc6.

I'm pretty basic on the mechanical power.  I hook up 4 rotors to a large gear at least 60 blocks above sea level for maximum power.  Build my smithy as close to them as possible, usually build at the top of a mountain (every axle reduces power by a small amount).  Drop a line of axles to another large axle where I split two off to power two helve hammers and use the other two for quern and pulverizer.  Throw in some transmissions to turn various parts on and off.

[Thorfinn]

I'm not even sure the complaint was the playability. It was the straight lines.

Edited August 18, 2025 by Thorfinn

[alberto_ascani]

16 hours ago, PandaBearJelly said:

Immagino che questo sia un buon esempio di come la generazione del mondo sia soggettiva perché non vedo alcun problema 

No, I'm sorry, but I disagree. If you don't notice a problem, there's a problem. The gravel shouldn't be so invasive, but that's a matter of taste. The problem is how it integrates and the transitions from one area to another, cut with a ruler. This is OBJECTIVELY a problem, unless God created the world during a technical drawing course.

 

[alberto_ascani]

16 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

 

Esatto! Quelle ampie distese di vegetazione rada o assente sono  totalmente  irrealistiche. Non è come la Terra, dove non ci sono deserti come il Gobi e il Sahara, o il sud-ovest degli Stati Uniti. Oh, aspetta.

... It's a shame that it's a video game and the generation should be functional to the gameplay and game aestetich, LOL it's a shame that the point of the champion realism is not this but how the various biomes are integrated

[Krougal]

3 minutes ago, alberto_ascani said:

No, I'm sorry, but I disagree. If you don't notice a problem, there's a problem. The gravel shouldn't be so invasive, but that's a matter of taste. The problem is how it integrates and the transitions from one area to another, cut with a ruler. This is OBJECTIVELY a problem, unless God created the world during a technical drawing course.

 

That's probably why the color map isn't the default; it makes it very obvious.

[alberto_ascani]

2 minutes ago, Krougal said:

That's probably why the color map isn't the default; it makes it very obvious.

In fact, I posted it precisely to point out these problems but apparently there are those who can say that it's fine like this HAHAHA

[alberto_ascani]

14 hours ago, Krougal said:

Non credo che la lamentela riguardi il realismo o meno, ma la giocabilità.

Almeno per me. Trovo le enormi distese di ghiaia noiose e inutili.

Soprattutto se parto dal centro di km e km.

Immagino che alcune persone non lo facciano. Sì, è molto soggettivo.

Yes, exactly, it's not just a question of gameplay but also aesthetics. There are too many of them, and too often, not even that big. They're unattractive and make gameplay frustrating in terms of establishing a foundation. The fact that biomes like that exist in the world, which aren't exactly like that, honestly doesn't interest me at all. It's a game, not real life. The "realism" I'm talking about is related to how things integrate with each other—e.g., the straight lines separating gravel biomes. Extreme realism is only a value for those who have no idea how a game is developed. So, why is it set up so that 97.5% of the world is land and not that 71% or more is water?

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, alberto_ascani said:

Yes, exactly, it's not just a question of gameplay but also aesthetics. There are too many of them, and too often, not even that big. They're unattractive and make gameplay frustrating in terms of establishing a foundation. The fact that biomes like that exist in the world, which aren't exactly like that, honestly doesn't interest me at all. It's a game, not real life. The "realism" I'm talking about is related to how things integrate with each other—e.g., the straight lines separating gravel biomes. Extreme realism is only a value for those who have no idea how a game is developed. So, why is it set up so that 97.5% of the world is land and not that 71% or more is water?

I like how you make everyone speak Italian

Yeah, the lack of water...well, probably started because...*glances around nervously and whispers* the game still has it's roots in MC.

Even if you plan on totally revamping something later, it is easiest to just use a lot of things as a placeholder because you need to have something, but your priority is to work on something else.

There also isn't a lot of ocean content at the moment, so most people would find large expanses of open ocean boring.

The sailboat is only a fairly recent addition (outside of a mod). As we get more ocean content, they will probably bump up the %.

They even did in 1.21, granted it was very conservative and I doubt it is enough, but I haven't generated enough maps or explored enough to form a valid opinion.

Even with the slider, I am still not sure where I prefer it. I have played with 70% ocean and it does make building a boat more of a priority.

[LadyWYT]

15 minutes ago, Krougal said:

They even did in 1.21, granted it was very conservative and I doubt it is enough, but I haven't generated enough maps or explored enough to form a valid opinion.

It is possible to spawn near an ocean--this happened on a trial world. However, I don't think oceans are prevalent by default yet, because water content is still a work in progress and not as fleshed out as land content. Since there is now something to see in the oceans, the defaults have changed so that the player will encounter an ocean...eventually. I'd wager the chance will be increased as more water content is developed; otherwise, all players are really getting is more water but nothing to really do with it, which is kinda just...wasted space.

[alberto_ascani]

16 minutes ago, Krougal said:

I like how you make everyone speak Italian

Yeah, the lack of water...well, probably started because...*glances around nervously and whispers* the game still has it's roots in MC.

Even if you plan on totally revamping something later, it is easiest to just use a lot of things as a placeholder because you need to have something, but your priority is to work on something else.

There also isn't a lot of ocean content at the moment, so most people would find large expanses of open ocean boring.

The sailboat is only a fairly recent addition (outside of a mod). As we get more ocean content, they will probably bump up the %.

They even did in 1.21, granted it was very conservative and I doubt it is enough, but I haven't generated enough maps or explored enough to form a valid opinion.

Even with the slider, I am still not sure where I prefer it. I have played with 70% ocean and it does make building a boat more of a priority.

Sorry, sometimes I don't understand everything but I don't know why it's still in Italian now HAHAH. But you know, I think we should never get to those percentages of realism, because YOU KNOW HOW BORING IT IS, but I still think the layout of the water should be widely reviewed. The point, however, is that the video game shouldn't aim for realism, but to have its own underlying coherence and be fun. Talking about the existence of similar areas in the world is silly because that's not the point. So, a world where you spawn in the Sahara or on a small island in the western Pacific should be a player's dream? No, it would be horrible.

[Krougal]

8 minutes ago, alberto_ascani said:

Sorry, sometimes I don't understand everything but I don't know why it's still in Italian now HAHAH. But you know, I think we should never get to those percentages of realism, because YOU KNOW HOW BORING IT IS, but I still think the layout of the water should be widely reviewed. The point, however, is that the video game shouldn't aim for realism, but to have its own underlying coherence and be fun. Talking about the existence of similar areas in the world is silly because that's not the point. So, a world where you spawn in the Sahara or on a small island in the western Pacific should be a player's dream? No, it would be horrible.

Oh no, don't apologize. I like it. It might help people learn Italian even to see the translations.

It is hard to say what would be a good %. I'm still trying to figure that out for myself, and it is another subjective thing.

Some players like spawning on a desert island, seeds for that other game like that were popular challenges.

Valheim is interesting in that the worldgen is designed so that you have to sail around to explore. While you might find all the biomes on the same landmass or even close, it is unlikely.

 

[LadyWYT]

14 minutes ago, alberto_ascani said:

I don't know why it's still in Italian now HAHAH.

I'm thinking it might be a website feature, or maybe a feature of whatever web browser one happens to use. Everything is getting translated to what the default language setting for the user is, so an English user will see everything in English, an Italian speaker will see everything in Italian, etc. An untranslated post still pops up from time to time, but it's been a while since I've seen one.

[alberto_ascani]

35 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Oh no, don't apologize. I like it. It might help people learn Italian even to see the translations.

It is hard to say what would be a good %. I'm still trying to figure that out for myself, and it is another subjective thing.

Some players like spawning on a desert island, seeds for that other game like that were popular challenges.

Valheim is interesting in that the worldgen is designed so that you have to sail around to explore. While you might find all the biomes on the same landmass or even close, it is unlikely.

 

Italian is an extraordinary language, but not very useful. Hahaha. Of course not, but the % I'm talking about is the one that establishes consistency with the game. For now, large water areas would just be an outline and a waste of space, even though the game NEEDS rivers and lakes. However, what I'm saying is that these evaluations must be consistent with the game, which goes beyond personal taste and creates a world that everyone can fully appreciate. Then, obviously, I'd focus on the options that can be activated to ensure certain things. If you think about it, when you start playing "challenge" worlds? When you've already played so many "normal" ones. I'm very much in favor of "subjectivity," but that shouldn't invalidate the fact, as in this case, that there are objective problems in world generation with respect to the "rules" the developers themselves gave us.

[alberto_ascani]

31 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

I'm thinking it might be a website feature, or maybe a feature of whatever web browser one happens to use. Everything is getting translated to what the default language setting for the user is, so an English user will see everything in English, an Italian speaker will see everything in Italian, etc. An untranslated post still pops up from time to time, but it's been a while since I've seen one.

I think it depends on whether you're translating the post when replying with Google's settings

[Maelstrom]

2 hours ago, alberto_ascani said:

In fact, I posted it precisely to point out these problems but apparently there are those who can say that it's fine like this HAHAHA

You weren't very clear describing exactly what about the screenshot was so alarming to you; leaving it to the interpretation of the reader to read your mind.

Out of all the things that are janky with the game, this is one of the last ones on my list.  Considering how long it's been since you first played the game I'd think you'd have noticed this particular thing hasn't changed that much. If at all.

[Moltrey]

While I am sure it's a hot button for some, I am firmly in Maelstrom's camp- it is quite far down on the list for me.

As the wicked witch of the west said, "All in good time dearie, all in good time..."  (with apologies to Margaret Hamilton)

[Krougal]

30 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

You weren't very clear describing exactly what about the screenshot was so alarming to you; leaving it to the interpretation of the reader to read your mind.

Out of all the things that are janky with the game, this is one of the last ones on my list.  Considering how long it's been since you first played the game I'd think you'd have noticed this particular thing hasn't changed that much. If at all.

Maybe that's why we're making a stink about it. It is a higher priority for some of us.

2 minutes ago, Moltrey said:

While I am sure it's a hot button for some, I am firmly in Maelstrom's camp- it is quite far down on the list for me.

As the wicked witch of the west said, "All in good time dearie, all in good time..."  (with apologies to Margaret Hamilton)

Fair enough!

[Moltrey]

It's cool that you care about it so much Krougal; I am not real fond of the straight lines either, but once I am in the game I tend not to think about it at all.

I AM super itchy to get this stable release though. 

[LadyWYT]

4 minutes ago, Moltrey said:

I AM super itchy to get this stable release though. 

Same. I've been lurking the github and I don't see any more major issues getting reported, and haven't run into any huge issues in rc6. So I'm guessing the devs are pretty close to having a stable release ready.

[alberto_ascani]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

You weren't very clear describing exactly what about the screenshot was so alarming to you; leaving it to the interpretation of the reader to read your mind.

Out of all the things that are janky with the game, this is one of the last ones on my list.  Considering how long it's been since you first played the game I'd think you'd have noticed this particular thing hasn't changed that much. If at all.

The problem is explicitly stated and refers to other posts in the forum. In any case, looking at the screenshots, it doesn't seem that difficult to deduce that those lines separating the fields are a problem. Furthermore, in previous versions it doesn't seem to have been so pronounced; in fact, in 1.19, it seems to me that biomes were generated much more carefully and spontaneously. That said, the fact that the problem is persistent doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported again.