Muscle and fat mechanics

[Shpick]

Intro 

When you start the game, you start pretty strong, you are pretty fast, you sprint through the fields, you parkour through the canyons.

Then you die to a wolf or a bear or something else, and you respawn still strong, still fast, and maybe with more satiety. Well... I think you need to spawn weak, about 15% weaker, 8% slower (we can tweak those numbers), BUT

At the benefit... of... IMPROVING BY...

MUSCLES AND FAT! 
 

Muscles

its a value that is SOFT-CAPPED, ahhhh, yeeee, you probably dont know what it means? SOFT CAP, is a beautiful word, because it implies power, that muscles are. it means that you could if you really were determined to be - really strong, BEYOND the limit of 100 or whatever you set it to be. The soft cap can come in many forms, whether it lessens your gains, or makes it more difficult to get gains, or more expensive.

BUT what STATS do muscles INCREASE? i think its pretty obvious, what else but (a little bit of ) health, (mainly) player damage and digging/mining speed, movement speed, -ohhhhhhh....and the best part....HUNGER RATE!!!!!

thats right, you wanna be a beefcake? you gotta eat beefcakes yourself!!!

 

HOW do WE get MUSCLE? good question, and you better pay attention to this, cause this is the MEAT AND POTATOES of this big IDEA, this is where soft cap really comes into play, so everything the player does gets him muscle, however its very slow and every activity has its own mini soft cap limit, so lets say sprinting and jumping at the same time has a limit of 30, to get to that limit lets say the player would on normal gameplay (where he doesnt do it constantly just exploring a bit) get to 30 by day 6, and 30 is the sweet spot where the player has as much stats as our current player has, however if he does it for 6 more days after that, the stat would increase at a drastically lower speed as its beyond its limit, basically something miniscule like 35, and thats if the player is well fed, HE CAN LOSE MASS, if he doesnt EAT AND ALSO..

IF HE DOES EASY ACTIVITY! So lets say we got a strong character at 100 muscle, and we make him jump and walk, realistically thats a very good exercise, but not in terms of gameplay balance, even if the character is well fed, he will start to lose mass, thats cause his muscle loss is greater than muscle gain, and the muscle GAIN from every activity lessens as muscle stats GROW in size, meaning in a way there is a HARD LIMIT to every activity, where no matter how much you do it, you are not gonna gain anything above that LIMIT! BUT to get there, you gotta be really determined and with alot of resources and time. 

The hardest activity is obviously fighting, which is dealing damage to creatures, the stronger the creature you deal damage to the better, ranged attacks such as thrown also raise it equal amount (you also throw further) , but bows and arrows are a bit bit less in gains and limits. So if you want to be the strongest you have to fight strong creatures, and eat alot more. 

However you cant always fight strong creatures, this is where shadow fighting comes into play! YOU CAN DIE FROM IT, it uses temporal gears to create a special dummy that lets you spar with OP monsters, which drop nothing and are there just to kite around for fun and for those additional 10 or 50 muscle points to add onto your 100 muscle frame. tools and armor break. this is basically instead of acctually doing pushups, which you would be doing realistically, but that isnt as fun as shadow fighting, in multiplayer you would look crazy.

 

MUSCLE DRAIN - a player with about 100 muscle, doing nothing could lose 2-1 points per day if not fighting, player with 150, would lose 2-4 points if only mining/digging per day, i think the drain should be noticable enough that it doesnt become too infuriating to get back to.

 

HOW MUCH DO MUSCELS AFFECT YOU? Values can always be tweaked. MUSCLES AFFECT STATS LESS AS THE VALUE INCREASES, meaning 30-60 is of lesser effect then is 0-30

0 is as ive mentioned 15% weaker in health and damage and mining, 8% slower, luckily about 15% less hunger drain.

30 is the normal player

100 is 15% stronger in health damage, mining, 6% faster (negates 80% armor induced speed penalty), 80% more hunger drain but 150% bigger Hunger CAPACITY

150 is the theoretical limit that a player with no life could reach. 25% stronger in health, damage, mining, 9% faster (negates 92% speed penalties), 145% more hunger drain but 230% bigger hunger capacity.

 

i should also mention this that at 100 muscle you become big, you cant fit through single block wide gaps, and cat wear certain clothing/ armor, you need to make bigger apparel for yourself.

FAT

Bulking is bound to get you fat, and fat makes you slower, but makes you have more health (ironic i know) and a tiny bit of protection and also increased hunger drain. 

Fat decreases as your hunger is 0, once fat is 0 you start taking damage.

full 100 fat can last you 6 days. at 70 fat you cannot wear certain clothing and you cant fit through single block wide gaps. you can climb single block holes if you somehow get stuck in between rock. 

[LadyWYT]

Welcome to the forums! Interesting idea, but I think this is more micromanagement than what the average player will really enjoy. As a mod it would be fine, but for vanilla I think just having separate sliders for fat and muscle mass as a cosmetic option would be much more popular.

1 hour ago, Shpick said:

i should also mention this that at 100 muscle you become big, you cant fit through single block wide gaps, and cat wear certain clothing/ armor, you need to make bigger apparel for yourself.

A couple problems with this, first and foremost being that there are several spaces in story locations that cannot be navigated if the player is unable to fit through a gap that's one block wide. Story locations are protected areas, so it's not possible for the player to alter the terrain within those areas. If muscle is a stat that actively buffs the player and requires significant time/resource investment to build, it's not a good idea to be forcing the player to undo all that progress just to do the story content.

Likewise, big muscles do not necessarily mean strong ones. It's very possible to have a smaller build and still be incredibly strong; there's a guy called Anatoly who runs around with a special mop and bucket(they're very heavy) at gyms pranking bodybuilders. If you look at a lot of medieval armor, you'll also notice that quite a lot of it fits a physic that is not herculean.

The final issue I see here is that while it makes sense for bigger physiques to require specially made clothing and armor, that's not really practical to implement in gameplay without bloating the game files significantly. Copies would have to be made of most attire, complete with their own special models.

1 hour ago, Shpick said:

full 100 fat can last you 6 days. at 70 fat you cannot wear certain clothing and you cant fit through single block wide gaps. you can climb single block holes if you somehow get stuck in between rock. 

This runs into similar issues as muscle mass.

Regarding fat reserves staving off starvation damage, there's actually some code for that already in the game, but it's not code that's actively being used. Why? I don't know. My best guess is that it's likely a concept that's still a very rough idea, and may or may not actually be refined enough later to implement. The bigger issue I see with balancing this kind of mechanic is that while it's not very realistic to starve to death after a day of eating nothing, securing a food supply is one of the basic challenges that keeps the player grounded in reality. Food supply is so simple, but if the player can't manage to successfully keep themselves fed they're really going to struggle with everything else the game throws at them, and overlooking food supply will quickly humble even the most veteran players. If the player can just gorge themselves and then proceed to go an in-game month before needing to eat again, then they no longer need to ever concern themselves with things like preparing for winter or long travels.

Overall, I think if you'd like to see more in-depth dietary mechanics, you're probably better off poking around the database and trying out a few of the mods that alter such. I'm not sure that there's one that covers muscle mass specifically, but there is this one: https://mods.vintagestory.at/expandedstomach

[Shpick]

thank you for such a detailed reply, and taking your time to read my stuff!!!

Fortunately most of these issues can be easily solved, by just not including the body size mechanic ( i was getting a bit too creative there anyways). 

which in turn solves armor problem as there is no need for XLL anymore! 

The other issue being micromanagement... is.... totally not true! The body adapts, what the player does! - so the only one doing the micromanagement is the game itself!

Maybe i wasnt clear, which is a common problem of mine - BUT you do not need to do anything OUT OF THE ORDINARY to maintain NORMAL strength levels that current players already have, which is sufficient to play the game optimally, all you need is to survive for 6 days or however many i said and you are NORMAL! and even then, the only micromanagement you are gonna do is fighting, which is really dependant on your PLAYSTYLE! if you want to be a fighter you are going to be a stronger fighter, if you are gonna be a hippie you are gonna be as strong as one.  ive even mentioned how little of a drain it is, alot of values can be tweaked here and there to balance it all out.

And yes i did think about muscle size and strength itself, but that would mean having TWO SEPERATE muscle bars! which have seperate ways of gaining, and losing BUT the cool part is that it would let us benefit the hippie playstyle! which i was worried to tell as that would just complicate my idea, but since you brought it up, I MUST NOW!

Muscle Size and Power

These two stats are meant to be gained seperately, in real life you would gain both, but it would go against what these two stats are meant to do, and its reward players for their playstyle. 

SIZE

Size is for workers mainly, as its gained from digging, cutting, mining, tilling, eating well.

Size slows down movement speed along with acceleration, meaning if you do a 180 you are gonna have to accelerate to your speed again! it gives a bit of protection and health and affects the speed of your manual labor. as a bonus maybe every 10 muscle size you get an additional inventory slot. increases your hunger rate and hunger capacity, also negatively increases durability loss on tools when using them by a tiny bit. also increases damage a bit

POWER

Power is for fighters mainly, as its gained by fighting, taking damage, throwing, drawing bows, butchering, jumping and running, not starving (even if using fat).

Power increases movement speed, acceleration (if its lowered by size), slightly increases damage, but mainly increases attack speed, and slightly lowers durability loss on weapons and tools. increases hunger loss and capacity, but less than size would. 

 

The soft caps still apply, for example in this situation, running and jumping would affect power to a cap of 30-50 somewhere. 

 

Edited December 30, 2025 by Shpick

[LadyWYT]

50 minutes ago, Shpick said:

The other issue being micromanagement... is.... totally not true! The body adapts, what the player does! - so the only one doing the micromanagement is the game itself!

Maybe i wasnt clear, which is a common problem of mine - BUT you do not need to do anything OUT OF THE ORDINARY to maintain NORMAL strength levels that current players already have, which is sufficient to play the game optimally, all you need is to survive for 6 days or however many i said and you are NORMAL! and even then, the only micromanagement you are gonna do is fighting, which is really dependant on your PLAYSTYLE! if you want to be a fighter you are going to be a stronger fighter, if you are gonna be a hippie you are gonna be as strong as one.  ive even mentioned how little of a drain it is, alot of values can be tweaked here and there to balance it all out.

Fair, but I'm looking at from the perspective of, if you dangle a juicy benefit in front of the player, they're going to chase it, especially if it's something that gets perceived as the most optimal way to play. The scenario that therefore unfolds in my mind is that players will take a look at the damage boost that extra muscle gives, strive for it, and then get aggravated when they find out the drawbacks to acquiring/maintaining it. Extra health and inventory space also serve as prime bait.

The increased hunger rate is one example I would pick from the drawback. While it doesn't feel exceptionally unreasonable to me, to my knowledge many people will avoid playing the Blackguard class purely due to the increased hunger drain, and that drawback is a much smaller penalty in contrast.

In any case, that's mainly why I say it's a great idea for a mod, but probably wouldn't make for a good addition to the base game.

56 minutes ago, Shpick said:

Size slows down movement speed along with acceleration, meaning if you do a 180 you are gonna have to accelerate to your speed again!

I will note that size doesn't always equate to slow movements or slow acceleration. Some of the most dangerous opponents are the big individuals with fast reflexes. In any case, for this particular idea to work, the entire movement system would need to be reworked in order to account for player momentum.

[marmarmar34]

I never thought someone would suggest Mighty Omega mechanics for VS lol.

[Shpick]

On 12/31/2025 at 12:25 AM, LadyWYT said:

I will note that size doesn't always equate to slow movements or slow acceleration. Some of the most dangerous opponents are the big individuals with fast reflexes. In any case, for this particular idea to work, the entire movement system would need to be reworked in order to account for player momentum.

Hey, thank you for your attention once more! Yes it is true some fighters big can be fast, WHICH is why POWER is seperate as the more power you have the faster you get. If you manage to get 100 POWER AND 100 SIZE you are gonna be BIG and FAST like you say it could be!

 

On 12/31/2025 at 12:25 AM, LadyWYT said:

Fair, but I'm looking at from the perspective of, if you dangle a juicy benefit in front of the player, they're going to chase it, especially if it's something that gets perceived as the most optimal way to play. The scenario that therefore unfolds in my mind is that players will take a look at the damage boost that extra muscle gives, strive for it, and then get aggravated when they find out the drawbacks to acquiring/maintaining it. Extra health and inventory space also serve as prime bait.

I totally agree, that is why, it would be a miniscule issue!

like stone paths make us walk faster, and its such a big and long task for what???? for just 1.3 times more speed in at MOOOOST 5000 distance? and thats like 10s of hours of work!!!!! not just to place, but to get them and to plan them and then craft them and you still need to eat during that time spent! and at least... i aint complaining, and anyone who builds roads aint complaining either.

or....obsidian, everybody would want obsidian when they havent progressed to copper?! no... if there is no obsidian, then flint is enough....same way 40 power and 40 size may be enough...

like what about metal? heres a situation - oh! -  theres tin nearby for the bronze, but ....far away theres bismuthinite and that other ore (needed for bismuth bronze), well you wouldnt travel 10000 distance to that, tin bronze would be enough, even if a bit worse than bismuthinite bronze. and if you did travel, well you would be one of the few in that situation, and thats ok. 

 

where i am trying to get, is that, just like those things ive mentioned, it wont affect YOUR game loop at all - it wont frustrate anybody, because its very adaptive to your playstyle, it can also open room to even more powerful enemies - now thats where it kinda gets a bit problematic, but the main aspect of muscles, is that the longer you live, the stronger you get, to roughly put it. if you do a bit of everything and eat adequate, you are gonna get to 100 muscle and 100 power
(and if you minmax, you are gonna get to 150 or 200 or whatever, since its a softcap, the sky is the limit here, but thats for mad people. you could build paths on the whole surface of the world for speed boost everywhere but you wouldnt do it, same way you wouldnt want to get  200 power and size...unless you were devoted... and thats ok),
only now the problem is that  you kinda.... need more ways to die...so that you dont easily become overpowered LOL.

now i can sense, that someone will say -"dying may be more painful then", and thats GOOD, its a survival game, and the MOST SURVIVAL-est game ever, more than minecraft. what survival game doesnt punish you when die??????? 

On 12/31/2025 at 12:25 AM, LadyWYT said:

The increased hunger rate is one example I would pick from the drawback. While it doesn't feel exceptionally unreasonable to me, to my knowledge many people will avoid playing the Blackguard class purely due to the increased hunger drain, and that drawback is a much smaller penalty in contrast.

This is why i mentioned HUNGER CAPACITY, with more muscle like size, comes an ability to eat MORE, and to FAST LONGER. so you can stuff your face in the morning with 6 servings of meatball soup like a sumo (ok i know we dont have meatballs but lets pretend. ALSO FUN FACT - sumos eat about 5-10 bowls of Chankonabe for lunch), and be ok...for the whole day! whereas WITHOUT EXTENDED CAPACITY you could only eat 2 barely, and if you had increased hunger loss, you would obviously need to put more food in your inventory which would suck...

 

 

20 hours ago, marmarmar34 said:

I never thought someone would suggest Mighty Omega mechanics for VS lol.

Hello, lol, i used to play something like that on roblox about 7 years ago, very grindy, but i dont suggest anything like that, where you have to do pushups and squats LMAO