Lily Pod Posted January 4 Report Posted January 4 (edited) Hey. I've seen VS has Discord community. There are many problems with discord and using it is generally misaligned with ethos conveyed by this quote: > No marketplace. No loot boxes. No microtransactions. No Season pass. No paid DLC. No hidden fees. No pay2win. No ads. No user data monetization. No software patents. No shareholders. No publisher. No NFTs. No BlockChain. No 3rd party interests. No Games-as-a-Service. No empty promises. My suggestion is to bridge Matrix (secure, free and open source decentralized communication protocol. see more at https://matrix.org) server with discord community (thanks to `mautrix-discord` bridge). For me personally having only discord is a big disadvantage as I cannot access real-time communication with community. I opted out of big tech software long ago. I'm not the only one and given your positioning, I'm surprised you don't have it. Thanks. Edited March 1 by Lily Pod 3
freelikegnu Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 More relevant than ever. I too hope that there is a Matrix presence for Anego Studios games please and thank you! 4
Dark Thoughts Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 I think Matrix would have the same issue of being a black box though. One of the big issues of Discord is that you need an account AND you need to join a chat through an invite (which often is already expired) to read the convoluted information, downloads, or whatever else inside of it. There's no way to read it from the outside, there's no crawlers for search indexing to find it through search engines, and if the whole thing shuts down, all the its contents will be gone forever with it.
freelikegnu Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) On 2/12/2026 at 6:01 AM, Dark Thoughts said: I think Matrix would have the same issue of being a black box though. One of the big issues of Discord is that you need an account AND you need to join a chat through an invite (which often is already expired) to read the convoluted information, downloads, or whatever else inside of it. There's no way to read it from the outside, there's no crawlers for search indexing to find it through search engines, and if the whole thing shuts down, all the its contents will be gone forever with it. If the need is for search and archiving, that kind of conversation seems better suited to a well organized forum. Matrix is also not a commercial product trying to monetize it's users as Discord does. I'm pretty sure you can sign up for any matrix instance once and then enter any other matrix server with that account so that kind of federation lessens the pain of account creation. I think what you were really arguing for is iRC as that does not require a login and can be recorded and therefore archived, published and made searchable by anyone. A bot could also archive and publish conversations on just about any chat platform if allowed. Matrix room and space links do not have to expire. Edited February 13 by freelikegnu clarifications
marmarmar34 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 Steam has almost all the features Discord has. It's certainly a far more accessible platform that the overwhelming amount of people here already use.
Parabola Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 It is clear there is a handful of us in the VS community who are interested in seeing an alternative to Discord. Matrix coming coming up as the option is unsurprising given the game's "Fair and Independent" positioning (as quoted above by Lily Pod) and openness https://github.com/anegostudios align with the Matrix protocol. While some players have come to this forum to request Matrix as an option, (see this post from last year for example) it is likely that many people who are adversely affected by Discord being the sole official chat server for VS are unable to voice their concerns, as they cannot or will not join the Discord. Personally, the phone number requirement to join discord.gg/vintagestory (or any server for that matter) is paramount to providing a government ID to Discord due to legislation in my country, which—knowing their data leak track record and upcoming face scanning implementation—doesn't feel very good.
Parabola Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 From Anego's perspective, I see two reasons why a two-way Matrix Bridge would be difficult: 1. Configuration On top of the required server resources for installation of the Matrix appservice, Anego would have to allocate some of their limited manpower to establish / maintain the bridge for the minority of players who want to use Matrix. 2. Moderation Bridges complicate moderation in public servers. For example, malicious actors could subvert Discord mutes/bans by joining the Matrix server to continue to interact (sending messages via the two-way bridge). This would necessitate moderation manpower on Matrix as well as Discord, which—just as with Configuration—is more manpower consumed for a minority of players. So what do I propose? So as to not ask too much of Anego, I think it would be more reasonable to request a: a. One-way Bridged Matrix Server Discord messages in certain channels—say #announcements, #servers, & #TOPS for example—would be copied one-way to Matrix. This would solve the moderation difficulty mentioned above. b. Non-bridged Official Matrix Server, While not solving the issue of being unable to interact with the majority of the player-base which is on Discord, this solves both of the difficulties mentioned above and would require little Anego manpower except to setup the server and provide it as an option on the website under Chat. Both of these options would provide an alternative platform to Discord for those in the community who cannot or will not use Discord, but still want a place to stay connected; chat, voice call, or screenshare casually. I am interested in what others have to say on this topic. Thank you for bringing attention to this once again Lily Pod. 1
Zane Mordien Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 6 hours ago, Parabola said: b. Non-bridged Official Matrix Server, While not solving the issue of being unable to interact with the majority of the player-base which is on Discord, this solves both of the difficulties mentioned above and would require little Anego manpower except to setup the server and provide it as an option on the website under Chat. First and foremost, I get the concept, but I think they would still need to moderate it if it is a Official server. They wouldn't want it to be overun with people that post porn images for example. That is just bad press they do not want. I know nothing about this Matrix server, but the problem I see is that typically the "secure and decentrallized" communcation programs turn into cesspools of unregulated sites that focus on hate speach, illegal activites, porn, etc... that they don't want to be associated with. Even if they moderate their own server, when the news starts reporting on all the disgusting things that are going on <insert decentralized platform here> Tyron probably doesn't want to have his studios name associated with that. Now Discord has the same problem, but they close those sites down when they become a problem so they give the appearance of caring. Do they realy care? No, because no corporation really gives a hoot, but they care about money and if they don't regulate it they loose money. Decentrallized sites just go, "not my problem, speak to the server owner because we just provide the software and do not host it on our servers." Meanwhile all the nasty servers are located in some country that will never crack down on them. The big brother world sucks, but people suck as well. Left without moderation everthing online turns into hate and illegal porn.
Parabola Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 (edited) 17 hours ago, Zane Mordien said: they would still need to moderate [a one-way bridged Matrix Server] 100% The moderation difficulty I mentioned would be solved by a one-way bridged Matrix Server is Discord punishment circumvention—not that the Matrix Server would not be moderated; community moderators would be necessary just as they are in the Discord, though to a lesser degree due to the smaller number of users who would be on Matrix. Likewise, moderation tools are available for Matrix just they are for Discord. However... 17 hours ago, Zane Mordien said: the problem I see is that typically the "secure and decentrallized" communcation programs turn into cesspools I disagree with your assertion above that Matrix is any more of a "cesspool" than Discord, to the contrary Discord has "communities" readily searchable which individually promote all three of the things you rightfully said Anego would not want to associate themselves with: (these "communities" are below the join server button on Discord) 17 hours ago, Zane Mordien said: hate speach, illegal activites, porn Furthermore, servers which promote these three are (unfortunately) present on both Discord and Matrix despite being in breach of both platforms' TOS. As such, I do not think Matrix should be dismissed as a platform which promotes activities with which Anego would not want to associate. ...I would be interested in other opinions / arguments for or against Matrix as an alternative platform for our community, however! Edited February 20 by Parabola
Zane Mordien Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 20 minutes ago, Parabola said: I disagree with your assertion above that Matrix is any more of a "cesspool" than Discord, to the contrary Discord has "communities" readily searchable which individually promote all three of the things you rightfully said Anego would not want to associate themselves with: (these "communities" are below the join server button on Discord) But, does Matrix shut down such servers when they are pressed? or do they say, we are not in control of those servers? Like I said, Discord doesn't care they just want money, but when pressed they act. I don't really know how Matrix works, but I did glance over the website and it appears like a decentralized type of system where they do not have any control. Maybe I'm wrong.
Parabola Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said: does Matrix shut down such servers To greatly simplify and make an analogy to something many of us are familiar with in the VS community: Matrix is essentially software which Anego could use to implement to make a Matrix Server. This is similar to Anego providing the VS mod API and a mod creator using it to make a mod. Anego physically cannot "shut down" a mod which is created by a mod creator and hosted on their own website. Matrix Servers are similar; Matrix (the organization) physically cannot shut down a server hosted at matrix.vintagestory.at See here or here if you want to learn more. However, just as most VS mods are hosted on the lovely VS ModDB, most good Matrix Servers are hosted on common Homeservers. Ultimately, the Homeserver of a Matrix Server has the authority to shut bad servers down, just as Anego has the authority to remove bad mods from the VS ModDB. Some Homeservers such as element have comparatively high scrutiny of servers and are more liberal in shutting them down, resulting in a reputable network of Matrix Servers and not a "cesspool". Anego could make a VS Homeserver (downside quoted below) or host the server on a reputable Homeserver. On 2/19/2026 at 9:07 PM, Parabola said: server resources for installation of the Matrix appservice Hope this clears the confusion up for you and future viewers! Edited February 20 by Parabola 4
Lily Pod Posted March 1 Author Report Posted March 1 @Parabola thank you for explaining what matrix is to others!
Teh Pizza Lady Posted March 1 Report Posted March 1 What is the problem with discord? Anego has no nsfw channels or materials on their discord so like... zero users will be affected by the coming changes.
Parabola Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 @Teh Pizza Lady I don't mean to be rude, but have you read the thread thus far? This thread is not suggesting to replace Discord, nor implying users in the VS Discord will be affected by the upcoming changes. This thread is requesting that Anego provide an alternative for those that find difficulty in using Discord. This thread was revived in light of recent Discord policy changes that further illustrate how Discord's policies do not align with Anego's ethos. Below I have summarized various users' points, though I think reading from the beginning would provide a fuller picture: @Lily Pod Using Discord is generally misaligned with the VS 'standards' as Discord implements the following things VS is against: a marketplace microtransactions ads user data monetization software patents (closed source vs VS' open source approach) shareholders @freelikegnu Matrix fulfills the same role as Discord (requires sign-in; is a chat platform not a forum), but does not monetize its users @hstone32 Matrix allows more user freedom @Parabola Discord's phone number verification requirement to join servers results in players from stricter countries (countries outside the US and EU) essentially having to give their government ID to Discord (see here, figure 6) If you have any arguments as to why Matrix shouldn't be provided as an alternative please feel free to post! Any questions are also welcome. 2
Teh Pizza Lady Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 12 hours ago, Parabola said: I don't mean to be rude, but have you read the thread thus far? I did read the thread and it seemed that the comment that got the thread going was a reference to On 2/11/2026 at 7:27 PM, freelikegnu said: More relevant than ever. the coming age-gating changes. The part that is confusing to me is that people are saying they have difficulty using Discord, but when I look at Matrix, I see a hundred hoops to jump through in order to create an account and get started. And then everything is self-hosted so the availability of servers to join will be limited That's going to be a huge turn-off for a lot of users. I just don't see the benefit of it.
Parabola Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: I just don't see the benefit of it. Matrix certainly isn't for everyone! I believe you don't have to see personal benefit in Matrix to support providing it as an alternative option for those whom there is benefit. Those that don't see benefit in using Matrix don't have to join. The benefits to us, we few who don't / can't use Discord, are listed above. 1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: people are saying they have difficulty using Discord, but when I look at Matrix, I see a hundred hoops The difficulty we, who don't / can't use Discord, have with using Discord is not a problem of 'hoops', but of ethics as outlined above. Additionally, depending on Anego's setup, the account creation flow can be equally simple to Discord's: Step 1. press "create account" on matrix.vintagestory.at Step 2. verify email Step 3. you're in the VS Matrix server. See here for an example simplified account creation flow. Edited March 2 by Parabola
Teh Pizza Lady Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 The other major concern I have is having the information flow be splintered. A lot of the updates about the game come before Tyron even posts about them here because he has his game dev channel in the Discord where he talks about what he's working on and allows us to communicate with him about it. If people take to using Matrix over discord, then the flow of information becomes splintered rather than centralized. It becomes harder to manage and moderate. It also prevents the two groups from communicating with each other which fosters a "us vs them" mentality. I still do not see this as a good thing.
Lily Pod Posted March 2 Author Report Posted March 2 (edited) are you sure you are following the thread @Teh Pizza Lady? We are talking about bridging matrix and discord. All information will still be centralized and it will be the same for both - matrix and discord users, all chats, and layout will be the same, the only difference is that how information is being accessed. Edited March 2 by Lily Pod
Teh Pizza Lady Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 16 minutes ago, Lily Pod said: are you sure you are following the thread @Teh Pizza Lady? We are talking about bridging matrix and discord. All information will still be centralized and it will be the same for both - matrix and discord users, all chats, and layout will be the same, the only difference is that how information is being accessed. Yes, I am following the thread and I see nothing but issues with this suggestion. Nothing against the platform, but the two systems are simply incompatible on many levels. Bridging the two creates moderation blind spots and introduces legal risks. A Matrix server admin running a bridge becomes: A data processor (translating encrypted Matrix messages to Discord plain-text and vice versa) A content relay (thus creating scenarios where a message deleted on one platform wouldn't necessarily be deleted on the other) Open to liability for: Copyright claims Harassment content Moderation disputes Law enforcement requests All without Discord’s legal shield that would handle many of these things before the server owner even knew of it. I do not wish to place this burden on the team over at Anego. I still do not see this as a good thing.
DoctorSnakes Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 15 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: A Matrix server admin running a bridge becomes: A data processor (translating encrypted Matrix messages to Discord plain-text and vice versa) There are plenty of Discord servers with bridges to Matrix, and I have not seen this to be an issue. Could you elaborate why this is a problem? 15 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: A content relay (thus creating scenarios where a message deleted on one platform wouldn't necessarily be deleted on the other) Many bridges relay message deletions. This one, for example. 15 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: Open to liability for: Copyright claims Harassment content Moderation disputes Law enforcement requests You're open to liability for all of those things regardless of whether you use Discord or Matrix. 2 hours ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: I just don't see the benefit of it. The benefit is that you can communicate with people without your personal details and behavior being exploited for reasons beyond allowing you to use a social media platform. You can essentially get the same service, genuinely, for free (free to use and freedom from excessive data collection), with something like Matrix. Not seemingly for free as it is with corporate social media. When it comes to such platforms, you pay not with money directly, but with your data. That data can be your e-mail, banking details (saved after paying for social media microtransactions, for example), name, IP address. It can also be your intimate DMs with friends. This data can and does, intentionally by a company or not, get used for reasons beyond enabling you to chat with people. It happens intentionally when companies use it to predict your behavior, so that they can target ads more accurately against you. It happens unintentionally when the data that they have collected is handled irresponsibly and gets into the hands of hackers. People should not be taking the risk associated with closed and for-profit social media when open and community-driven social media exists. 2
Teh Pizza Lady Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 8 minutes ago, DoctorSnakes said: There are plenty of Discord servers with bridges to Matrix, and I have not seen this to be an issue. Could you elaborate why this is a problem? Many bridges relay message deletions. This one, for example. You're open to liability for all of those things regardless of whether you use Discord or Matrix. The benefit is that you can communicate with people without your personal details and behavior being exploited for reasons beyond allowing you to use a social media platform. You can essentially get the same service, genuinely, for free (free to use and freedom from excessive data collection), with something like Matrix. Not seemingly for free as it is with corporate social media. When it comes to such platforms, you pay not with money directly, but with your data. That data can be your e-mail, banking details (saved after paying for social media microtransactions, for example), name, IP address. It can also be your intimate DMs with friends. This data can and does, intentionally by a company or not, get used for reasons beyond enabling you to chat with people. It happens intentionally when companies use it to predict your behavior, so that they can target ads more accurately against you. It happens unintentionally when the data that they have collected is handled irresponsibly and gets into the hands of hackers. People should not be taking the risk associated with closed and for-profit social media when open and community-driven social media exists. then in that case you are breaking the Discord TOS and opening yourself to legal action by Discord. Discord’s TOS explicitly requires that you must create an account to use Discord’s services. Thus the bridge operator becomes the Discord user and the Matrix users become unauthorized sub-users. It's like subletting your apartment. When your landlord finds tenants that aren't on the lease, then you become legally liable for any repercussions of breaking the terms of the lease. The same thing applies with Discord and bridging it to Matrix. If you don't care about the Discord TOS and feel you should be allowed to violate it, then you should resign yourself to the fact that you just don't have access to the content on the platform. That is how subscription-based services work. If you want to use a platform, then you must abide by the rules of that platform.
Lily Pod Posted March 2 Author Report Posted March 2 then maybe discord shouldn't have so silly TOS? And may be this is one of the reasons nobody likes discord? 1
Lily Pod Posted March 2 Author Report Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: A data processor (translating encrypted Matrix messages to Discord plain-text and vice versa) Doesn't need to be encrypted, groups can be public and stored as plain-text 1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: A content relay (thus creating scenarios where a message deleted on one platform wouldn't necessarily be deleted on the other) Bridges handle it good enough, it's not a burden of administration. 1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: Open to liability for: Copyright claims Harassment content Moderation disputes Law enforcement requests Not following how this differs for discord
DoctorSnakes Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: then in that case you are breaking the Discord TOS and opening yourself to legal action by Discord. Discord’s TOS explicitly requires that you must create an account to use Discord’s services. Thus the bridge operator becomes the Discord user and the Matrix users become unauthorized sub-users. It's like subletting your apartment. When your landlord finds tenants that aren't on the lease, then you become legally liable for any repercussions of breaking the terms of the lease. The same thing applies with Discord and bridging it to Matrix. If you don't care about the Discord TOS and feel you should be allowed to violate it, then you should resign yourself to the fact that you just don't have access to the content on the platform. That is how subscription-based services work. If you want to use a platform, then you must abide by the rules of that platform. You're right, it does seem to be technically against their TOS from what I see online (anyone feel free to chime in on this). Although, it doesn't seem to be enforced much, but yes. In that case, I advocate for an official Matrix or other free (as in freedom) social media channel for Vintage Story which isn't connected by a bridge. Edited March 2 by DoctorSnakes 1
Teh Pizza Lady Posted March 2 Report Posted March 2 6 minutes ago, DoctorSnakes said: You're right, it does seem to be technically against their TOS from what I see online (anyone feel free to chime in on this). Although, it doesn't seem to be enforced much, but yes. In that case, I advocate for an official Matrix or other free (as in freedom) social media channel for Vintage Story which isn't connected by a bridge. I can get behind this, though I doubt many would want to sign up for another account on another service, but they may be less resistant to such an idea as I am. I would probably do it, just to stay on top of the discussions in the mod development channels, but I wouldn't like it. Either way I don't think the discussion of breaking the Discord TOS should continue or be allowed.
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