Temporal storms are a bad implementation of a good idea.

[Andael]

5 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

I'm a broken record, the storms are just boring time outs until you build a cheese base and then you cheese them. They are sort of fun at first but after a few storm time outs it's boring.

I think that's a reasonable summary of what Temporal Storms are now -- at least the experience I get from them.

But do you think the idea should be given a fleshed-out design and implementation which ideally enriches gameplay... Or just be removed?

13 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

What loot is that? Pointless Jonas parts?

I think I agree with your sentiment here too. I feel like the effort of fighting drifters (and harvesting, often under hostile conditions) feels worthless -- leading to ignoring them as much as possible. Maybe that's the intent? Just a mostly-pointless threat? I don't know. I'd prefer some kind of incentive to engage with the mechanics of the game. In the large-scale, there is incentive to build better gear to survive (against everything) easier. Yet there still isn't much worth to actually killing drifters aside from preventing them from harming yourself.

The occasional flax or gears are a small something in the early game, and I don't know what else might be sensible. But I know fighting them is frustrating partly because it's feels pointless right now.

 

[Blaiyze]

I'll echo what others have said and what I've said in other, similar topics.
When I got VS and started my first world, the first few Temporal Storms were a chilling and thrilling experience. However the novelty wore off really fast. Too fast.

Enemies shouldn't be able to spawn inside your base, behind you, while you're baking bread trying to wait out the storm. Plopping high level enemies on the tail of a newbie Seraph honestly just is not great design - sure, adds to the hardcore concept at the core of this game. But ragequitting is a thing and some people will never come back to a game after it has driven them to this point.

The 'loot' from vanilla drifters and enemies is pitiful, especially for a fresh start. Which is why I typically turn the storms off. Heck, I don't even play with the Temporal Stability either as it has an unfortunate tendency of rendering too many decent places for a base unbuildable.

So that definitely begs the question: if your player base is turning off what are supposed to be, according to lore, critical game mechanics - then you should take a harder look at those mechanics and tweak them. Rule of thumb is, mechanics should be fun or at least engaging to interact with. The Temporal Storms, to me, come across as some sort of minor tower/base defense mechanism a la 7DTD/Bloodmoons, but not implemented nearly as well. At this point the storms feel more like an afterthought rather than a main feature. I like the idea of all the temporal mechanics being wrapped up together as generalized weather pattern - Temporal Storms could spawn Rifts, and spawns from those Rifts tied in some manner to the players progression for fairness to newbie Seraphs. 

I wish I could experience the storms again for the first time as it definitely was a treat the first time.

Edited March 4 by Blaiyze

[Andael]

10 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

What if we just made 'storms' a place you go to instead of it landing everywhere including your base?

We already have enemies to travel to, in the form of deep caverns and story locations. If storms were a thing you prepared for and went to, that's not much different than spelunking into an infested cavern... aside from the lack of glitch effects (well... that will begin with time too). Though simply standing in a rift accomplishes this too: "storm" at will.

The potential value in a "raid" type event is to encourage preparation. To throw adversity against a player, which the player can then advance to overcome. Somewhat like seasonal change.

But with seasonal change, the game has a lot of design around preparation for winter: ways to mitigate cold, to preserve and store food, and even keep fresh supplies with livestock and greenhouses. With Temporal Storm, it feels like there isn't much design. The storms are random spawns, while players have general tech advancement of weapons and armor, and application of building in ways which exploit implementation details.

CastIronFabric, I am in agreement with your concerns/complaints about making a nicely lit place which has drifters spawn, and with the implications against outdoor forges. I, too, like to make some nice lighting with varied illumination levels (rather than flat bright bland illumination). I also have problems with (and hate) Nightmare Drifters spawning behind me in my decently-lit home to insta-kill me.

To me, the problem is that they're not really designed, but rather a simple implementation of a rough idea. A fleshed-out design and implementation should encourage the strengths of the game, and offer a compelling reason to interact rather than disabling or simply biding-time during a storm.

You've stated clearly that you're not interested at all -- so you should be well served by the option to disable them, as you do.

I'm curious if you want to add input to Storm discussions because you might be interested in some different implementation?

 

[runnybabbit]

20 hours ago, Blaiyze said:

When I got VS and started my first world, the first few Temporal Storms were a chilling and thrilling experience. However the novelty wore off really fast.

This was my experience as well.

I think an unintentional effect of what you might call 'systemic design polish philosophy' in the last few updates (which I've been very pleased with in general), has been to highlight the temporal storm as needing some real help. With all the little touches towards integrated systems, clearer progression, and multiple paths to get there that's been happening elsewhere (slowly but surely, granted), the temporal system feels more and more disjointed. It sticks out.

What I mean is, I get the impression that a couple of years ago (I'm relatively new, just got in for 1.19), you'd play VS as a 'jank' but charming and surprisingly deep experience, but for those that have come on sooner and didn't get to see the early builds, it seems like everything *else* is moving towards a design vision. So it's hard for new players not to feel like the current place temporal storms are in is intentional by design. Kinda like a reverse 'broken windows' theory. Or maybe not even reverse. Just a big ol' broken window.

It is something that makes me hesitate from introducing VS to friends until it's fixed in case it drives them away. It's already done so to one. Minor psycho-analysis aside, personally I'll happily be on 'sleep through storms' till then.

Edited March 5 by runnybabbit

[Tabulius]

7 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I suspect it exists mostly for those who were expecting deadly combat to be part of an "uncompromising wilderness survival sandbox game inspired by eldritch horror themes." If it says "unnerving temporal disturbances" right on the tin, why would one expect to not have disturbances? 

I never said they should be removed. I don't think anyone said they should be removed, you can agree a mechanic has merit whilst also criticizing it's implementation. Just because the game is marketed as having cosmic horror elements doesn't force it to design it's mechanics in this way.

7 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

For every temporal storm thread, there's another that thinks combat should be an even bigger part of the game. Temporal storms are not an awful compromise. Particularly with as easy as it is to change settings or even use/make mods.

I beg to differ, temporal storms as they currently are represent a refusal to compromise. What we had before was a compromise, before players who didn't want to engage didn't have to, and players who did could. Now, there is only one glaringly obvious option, and that is to fight, or, do nothing. I'll also say that players who genuinely enjoy the combat as it currently is seem to be a minority considering how lackluster it is. The only person I've seen say they genuinely enjoy it and don't just tolerate it is LadyWYT.  Also, if you know any mods that address this please let me know, because I've searched many a time and haven't found any. The closest I've found was temporal tempest and it's abandoned.

[Slam]

14 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

You don't even have to do that. Just use a stack of storage (chests or whatever) as the wall between your "regular room" and your dedicated storm room.

No.

[CastIronFabric]

9 hours ago, Andael said:

We already have enemies to travel to, in the form of deep caverns and story locations. If storms were a thing you prepared for and went to, that's not much different than spelunking into an infested cavern... aside from the lack of glitch effects (well... that will begin with time too). Though simply standing in a rift accomplishes this too: "storm" at will.

The potential value in a "raid" type event is to encourage preparation. To throw adversity against a player, which the player can then advance to overcome. Somewhat like seasonal change.

But with seasonal change, the game has a lot of design around preparation for winter: ways to mitigate cold, to preserve and store food, and even keep fresh supplies with livestock and greenhouses. With Temporal Storm, it feels like there isn't much design. The storms are random spawns, while players have general tech advancement of weapons and armor, and application of building in ways which exploit implementation details.

CastIronFabric, I am in agreement with your concerns/complaints about making a nicely lit place which has drifters spawn, and with the implications against outdoor forges. I, too, like to make some nice lighting with varied illumination levels (rather than flat bright bland illumination). I also have problems with (and hate) Nightmare Drifters spawning behind me in my decently-lit home to insta-kill me.

To me, the problem is that they're not really designed, but rather a simple implementation of a rough idea. A fleshed-out design and implementation should encourage the strengths of the game, and offer a compelling reason to interact rather than disabling or simply biding-time during a storm.

You've stated clearly that you're not interested at all -- so you should be well served by the option to disable them, as you do.

I'm curious if you want to add input to Storm discussions because you might be interested in some different implementation?

 

We have enemies we travel to and by all reasonable measures those are by far better than the storms.

see my point? There is a reason people avoid the storms and seek the dungeons.

As far as your question goes

Quote

I'm curious if you want to add input to Storm discussions because you might be interested in some different implementation?

Here is my input on some different implementation

Quote

What if we just made 'storms' a place you go to instead of it landing everywhere including your base?

Just because you do not agree with my suggestion of a different implementation does not mean I did not make one of which you responded to directly.

Edited March 4 by CastIronFabric

[Andael]

4 hours ago, Tabulius said:

Also, if you know any mods that address this please let me know, because I've searched many a time and haven't found any.

Yeah, for all the vast range of mods, there really are none that deal with Temporal Storms in a significant way.

Soon after starting to play Vintage Story I began making notes about ideas for them, thinking maybe I'd pursue this. I am a programmer, specifically games... but my preferred environment is Linux+Vim and not the Visual Studio/JetBrains/IDE situation... and as I hemmed and hawed about setting that up I started to think that Temporal Storms seem so placeholder that Tyron must have intention to do a major rework there. Then I posted here -- oops, on reddit! -- asking about what that intent might be -- getting no answer on that, but rather a friendly "turn them off if you don't like them" from the community. I decided I was too fresh to VS, and jumping into this might be too much a can-o-worms.

I feel like I have enough sense of the game now, with a few playthroughs up through the Resonance Archives and some romps through Wilderness Survival. If I knew "this is it -- Temporal Storms are basically as intended", that would be great incentive to pursue a mod to rework them.

 

 

Edited March 4 by Andael

[CastIronFabric]

6 minutes ago, Andael said:

Yeah, for all the vast range of mods, there really are none that deal with Temporal Storms in a significant way.

Soon after starting to play Vintage Story I began making notes about ideas for them, thinking maybe I'd pursue this. I am a programmer, specifically games... but my preferred environment is Linux+Vim and not the Visual Studio/JetBrains/IDE situation... and as I hemmed and hawed about setting that up I started to think that Temporal Storms seem so placeholder that Tyron must have intention to do a major rework there. Then I posted here asking about what that intent might be -- getting no answer on that, but rather a friendly "turn them off if you don't like them" from the community. I decided I was too fresh to VS, and jumping into this might be too much a can-o-worms.

I feel like I have enough sense of the game now, with a few playthroughs up through the Resonance Archives and some romps through Wilderness Survival. If I knew "this is it -- Temporal Storms are basically as intended", that would be great incentive to pursue a mod to rework them.

 

 

something to entertain.

If most players just avoid storms and if all the top mods for this game are not related to storms and one would be hard pressed to find ANY mod that is related to storms then perhaps the majority of players are actually not interested in storms in any context. I am not saying that IS the case, but I am saying take a evidence based approach then looking at all the top mods actually would be a good indicator of what the majority of players want.

If that rambling makes sense.

 

[Zane Mordien]

10 hours ago, Andael said:

But do you think the idea should be given a fleshed-out design and implementation which ideally enriches gameplay... Or just be removed?

I think they could do something interesting with them. They fit the horror vibe, but once you are past the initial shock they need to have a game mechanic where you can do something with the storm to add depth vs just hiding or cheesing them. Maybe a Jonas armor that can be built from common Jonas parts that is fueled by temporal storms. So in effect it gives you an armor buff, damage buff or HP buff, whatever, during storms only. It would also encourage you to try to kill something during the early temporal storms to get the parts you need. 

 

[LadyWYT]

For those wanting to make the storms a little more interesting in the meantime, I highly recommend giving the Temporal Symphony mod a try. It changes nothing about how the storms function directly, given that it's mainly some sound tweaks. What it does do, is remove the text warnings and replace them with sound and visual cues, as well as an optional audio cue to indicate to the player the strength of the approaching storm. It's all fun and games until you're out on a hunting trip and the ground itself starts shaking as the sky turns an ominous rusty red for a brief moment.

6 hours ago, Tabulius said:

The only person I've seen say they genuinely enjoy it and don't just tolerate it is LadyWYT.

Admittedly, I'm probably also a weird case regarding certain things. The storms are still something of an inconvenience to me, at times, but I don't really look at that as a bad thing either. They're unnatural disasters, thus it makes sense for them to be outside the player's control and inconvenient to an extent. They offer a lot of background pressure in the early game, since the player doesn't have the equipment needed to deal with them yet. Being able to travel around wherever and do whatever without being interrupted is sometimes nice, but...it also gets rather boring after a time as there's just nothing to really account for. Food is easily had, so there's no danger of starvation. Rifts can be avoided, and aren't really a threat when I have basic gear. Same goes for wildlife--the worst that's out there is bears, and those are handled easily enough with tier 2 gear.

When it comes to storm changes, I'm not entirely opposed to change, and trust the devs will implement changes as needed as well as make sure the changes are fun and make sense with the established lore. For player-made suggestions though, I tend to be skeptical at best, and have an avid dislike of the suggestion at worst. Most of them don't sound fun at all. Many of them don't make sense with the established lore and would require some major rewrites, which really isn't ideal for multiple reasons(not the least of which is that Tyron has a specific story he wants to tell). Many suggestions also come across as turning the storms into something that's an active benefit for the player, which doesn't really make sense either for something that is supposed to be this horrifying unnatural disaster.

One thing I am somewhat hoping for though, is a way to "fix" the storms and stop them from occurring as a reward for completing the main story. It would be a rather nice reward to have for such, since it allows the player's actions to have some incredible impact upon the world itself. Otherwise, minor changes like the ones I listed earlier are sufficient, I think. Preserve the temporal storms as the inconvenient unnatural disasters they are, while smoothing out the overall experience.

[Stralgaez]

34 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

When it comes to storm changes, I'm not entirely opposed to change, and trust the devs will implement changes as needed as well as make sure the changes are fun and make sense with the established lore. For player-made suggestions though, I tend to be skeptical at best, and have an avid dislike of the suggestion at worst. Most of them don't sound fun at all. Many of them don't make sense with the established lore and would require some major rewrites, which really isn't ideal for multiple reasons(not the least of which is that Tyron has a specific story he wants to tell). Many suggestions also come across as turning the storms into something that's an active benefit for the player, which doesn't really make sense either for something that is supposed to be this horrifying unnatural disaster.

For me this cycles around on what level those "unnatural disasters" have a impact on everyone else. Because from what I see they are just come and go - Other than harrassing us, the players, they don't wreck buildings, attack lifestock, destroy supplies or otherwise. They aren't a genuine threat to the environment, either, leaving no afflicted/"rusted"/contaminated areas behind.

But I would like something coming out of toughing out a storm. Something you only get exclusively by braving it. Perhaps through a portal that offers a trip into a small pocket area of the Rust World where you got a little time to explore, crash and grab what you find, and quickly leave again with loot before the way back is closed. Or worse. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

The harsh reality is that the temporal storm is neither a loot even nor a punishment for playing the game. It is a disruption. Its purpose is to force a shift in player activity for a short period of time. It has a lore-relevant reason for existing...and according to lore, the storms used to be more frequent and a lot worse. You cannot sleep through the storms by default, however systems exist to change that. That is intentional. The game is saying "You need to do something else right now."

That something else does not need to be fighting.

Panning is a solid option but it require preparation. You either need a saw to craft a bucket and move water indoors or you need to have build around a water source ahead of time. That is forethought and planning which the game requires in almost every gameplay loop. The impending storm pressures you to think ahead and plan for what to do when it comes instead of reacting at the last second.

As for combat, temporal storms really should not be engaged seriously without at least tier 3 armor. Even then, tier 4 enemies will land wrecking blows that chew through both their health and armor durability. Players who try to farm storms aggressively will inevitably end up retreating early to heal or repair, which often costs more resources than they gained in loot unless they got lucky with a Jonas part drop. That is not a loot piñata. That is a high risk activity with marginal returns. The storms can be fought, and there is a small reward for those who do, but they shouldn't be treated as a "free loot!" situation.

Problems arise when the storms are framed as either a mandatory combat event or a punishment that interrupts "real" gameplay. They are neither in my opinion. They are a forced shift in activity. Go inside, work on the forge, prep food, organize your storage, etc, or just simply wait it out.

Not every system needs to be optimized into a reward fountain. Sometimes the intended response is a change of gears, or just hiding in a hole and making yourself a snack in the kitchen IRL while the storm rages in the game.

If storms are converted into reliable loot events, they stop being the disruptive anomalies and become scheduled farming sessions. They become something to look forward to, which violates a core tenant of the lore which is that the storms are a bad thing. They are not good. At that point, the atmosphere, tension, and pacing of the game largely dissolves.

Storms aren't broken because they're inconvenient. The inconvenience is the mechanic and what drives the player to engage with the story and figure out a way to fix it and stop them from happening.

[Zane Mordien]

6 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Storms aren't broken because they're inconvenient. The inconvenience is the mechanic and what drives the player to engage with the story and figure out a way to fix it and stop them from happening.

After 1-2 storms the lore check box is checked. Then it is just repetition of a mechanic. I want them to add something to make it engaing. Maybe there is special crafting that you can only do during the storm that progresses the story. That would make me engage in the lore. I want depfth to the storm and not just time out. 

 

13 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Problems arise when the storms are framed as either a mandatory combat event or a punishment that interrupts "real" gameplay. They are neither in my opinion. They are a forced shift in activity. Go inside, work on the forge, prep food, organize your storage, etc, or just simply wait it out.

Going inside doens't fix anything though. You can still have drifters spawn on top of you. So you can't just go inside and do smithing or paning to be safe. Odds are lower since it is a smaller area, but that tier 4 drifter can spawn anywhere you an be. 

[LadyWYT]

27 minutes ago, Stralgaez said:

But I would like something coming out of toughing out a storm. Something you only get exclusively by braving it. Perhaps through a portal that offers a trip into a small pocket area of the Rust World where you got a little time to explore, crash and grab what you find, and quickly leave again with loot before the way back is closed. Or worse. 

I think that's potentially a spot for the status effect system to shine, when it's implemented. Perhaps killing a certain number of tough monsters in a storm could give the player a monster fighting bonus for a few days after. Hiding during a storm could perhaps boost the player's stealth versus monsters instead, so that they go undetected by monsters more easily for a few days. Or perhaps to play the long game--if the player can earn new permanent traits, killing lots of monsters over the course of several storms could increase their tolerance to temporal instability, meaning that the player can remain in unstable areas for a longer time without issue.

In order to make sure that player who choose to turn the temporal storms off aren't left out, they could earn the same traits by slaying monsters underground, clearing dungeons, or otherwise just spending time in unstable areas. It would probably be a slower way to earn traits, but still allow those players the option without locking them out.

Just a note on monster loot being disappointing--monsters, I think, are meant to be environmental hazards, and not really a source of resources. They drop a few things to offer a nice little reward every now and then for dealing with them, but otherwise they're an obstacle for the player to overcome or work around, rather than a source of income. The loot tables can be easily changed as desired via mods as well. For actual combat spoils, that's a job better suited to the procedural dungeons, where players can have more challenging things to fight and puzzles to solve in return for a nice pile of loot at the end.

34 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Problems arise when the storms are framed as either a mandatory combat event or a punishment that interrupts "real" gameplay. They are neither in my opinion. They are a forced shift in activity. Go inside, work on the forge, prep food, organize your storage, etc, or just simply wait it out.

I would say they're a harsher version of winter, in that regard. The seasons will change regardless if the player wants them to or not, and as such the player will need to account for that kind of change. Unlike seasons though, the player can't just skirt around a temporal storm by moving somewhere else. 

 

19 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

Maybe there is special crafting that you can only do during the storm that progresses the story. That would make me engage in the lore.

The problem with this solution is that it locks players who chose to turn the storms off out of an entire branch of the gameplay. While I do think the story is better with storms enabled, I also don't think it's bad if players turn off the mechanic. Players who do so shouldn't, however, be missing out on story-related goodies if they do so.

If the "special crafting" only yields stuff that can be easily obtained by other means though, I'm not really sure it's solved anything aside from upset the players who want to do the crafting but don't like the process it involves.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

23 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

If the "special crafting" only yields stuff that can be easily obtained by other means though, I'm not really sure it's solved anything aside from upset the players who want to do the crafting but don't like the process it involves.

Easy. Lock Jonas part crafting behind temporal storms. You can only craft with Jonas tech while a storm is active. Done. People will love temporal storms now. Or hate them even more. There are no other options.

[Ceridith]

1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Storms aren't broken because they're inconvenient. The inconvenience is the mechanic and what drives the player to engage with the story and figure out a way to fix it and stop them from happening.

That's the crux of the problem though, temporal storms are an inconvenience mechanic currently with no means of remediation. Engaging with the story doesn't yield a way to lessen or stop them. Nor is there any Jonas device that can mitigate the impact of a temporal storm or otherwise prevent them, which includes rift wards which should have at least some impact.

The inclusion of temporal storms might make sense in the longer term development of the game when the story is in a more complete state and there are ways to more meaningfully mitigate the effect of temporal storms, or stop them entirely. As they are in their current state of the game however, temporal storms come off more as a nuisance mechanic that's better to be avoided and disengaged from entirely. I'll typically either allow sleeping through temporal storms on my worlds and reduce their frequency, if not just disable them entirely. They're absolutely a disruption from the usual gameplay loop, but in my opinion it's not in a way that adds positively to the enjoyment of the game.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

2 minutes ago, Ceridith said:

That's the crux of the problem though, temporal storms are an inconvenience mechanic currently with no means of remediation. Engaging with the story doesn't yield a way to lessen or stop them.

Have you considered that we are only at chapter 2 of 8? It is heavily implied that the storms will eventually go away once everything is fixed. I see them as only a temporary inconvenience.

[Ceridith]

9 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Have you considered that we are only at chapter 2 of 8? It is heavily implied that the storms will eventually go away once everything is fixed. I see them as only a temporary inconvenience.

I have yes, that was my whole point. The inclusion of temporal storms in the game makes sense in context to further completion of the story content and/or the implied addition of devices or other mechanics to mitigate or reduce storms. Their implementation in the current state of the game however, has them come off as needlessly punitive and more of a nuisance to be worked around rather than something that can achievably be overcome. Hence why I skip over them if not disable them entirely, they're currently not an enjoyable mechanic to engage with.

[Stralgaez]

14 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Storms aren't broken because they're inconvenient. The inconvenience is the mechanic and what drives the player to engage with the story and figure out a way to fix it and stop them from happening.

They just feel like extra spicy nights, with extra annoying moments where they spawn in your house, too. 

I need more on a storytelling level to show me how the storms are bad:  Show me wastelands that display the lingering effect of them, mutated animals beyond recognition that result from it.

Something that shows me : "Damn, we need to do something about it."

[PineReseen]

In my opinion, temporal storms are rather boring because they're too expected. They should occur somewhat more often and more randomly, maybe be a bit shorter, and have more subtle warnings right before it happens to make them fit better with the game.

I think the whole idea of temporal storms is to throw a spanner into the player's plans and to make the player adapt to a surprise situation, and I think leaning harder into that would benefit the mechanic. A sort of flash flood but it's unnatural creatures instead.

If the player is at home baking their 5th pie of the day, then it's all fine and dandy, if the player is out and about, then they need to either come back to shelter very quickly, improvise something, or try to hold their ground. Currently you have ample time to prepare, but if you didn't, then it'd definitely increase the stress and fear of a storm happening while you're not prepared.

A more out there idea would be to make no place truly safe, so the player has to fight for their life instead of hiding in a corner, but I'm not sure how to execute this effectively. Maybe make temporal stability more punishing during temporal storms, so you have to kill some creatures to regain it? Could be very punishing for new players though.

[LadyWYT]

4 minutes ago, PineReseen said:

In my opinion, temporal storms are rather boring because they're too expected. They should occur somewhat more often and more randomly, maybe be a bit shorter, and have more subtle warnings right before it happens to make them fit better with the game.

More options to control the interval between storms would be nice. That way the player can choose whether or not they want more predictable storms, or less predictable ones.

 

5 minutes ago, PineReseen said:

A more out there idea would be to make no place truly safe, so the player has to fight for their life instead of hiding in a corner, but I'm not sure how to execute this effectively. Maybe make temporal stability more punishing during temporal storms, so you have to kill some creatures to regain it? Could be very punishing for new players though.

I agree this seems like it would be too punishing for most players in general, not just new ones. However, I do think that the stability drain could be increased for heavier storms, so that the player should consider going out and killing a few monsters or sacrificing a temporal gear in order to avoid falling too low on stability. Light storms should remain relatively less threatening in comparison, since the player is already going to struggle in the early game(when these storms occur) due to lack of good equipment.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 hour ago, Ceridith said:

Their implementation in the current state of the game however, has them come off as needlessly punitive and more of a nuisance to be worked around rather than something that can achievably be overcome. Hence why I skip over them if not disable them entirely, they're currently not an enjoyable mechanic to engage with.

I agree, which is why I called it a harsh reality. If I had my way, temporal storms couldn't be turned off at all, but knowing they can be and knowing that Anego like to make things in this game as prototypes first and then flesh out the details later, I understand why temporal storms have the ability to be turned off. We have 6 more story chapters to figure out how via normal gameplay means. But the harsh reality is that they suck. However with any game mechanic there is a stark contrast between constructive criticism and venting frustration. It is wise to understand the difference and prudent to realize that the former tends to be the catalyst for change over the latter.

58 minutes ago, Stralgaez said:

I need more on a storytelling level to show me how the storms are bad:  Show me wastelands that display the lingering effect of them, mutated animals beyond recognition that result from it.

Something that shows me : "Damn, we need to do something about it."

There actually is a story location that shows the long-term consequences of prolonged exposure to the Rust World. It is completely devoid of animals and functionally a wasteland. The devastation you are looking for is there, just not exactly how you are describing it.

That said, the storms themselves are not the root problem. They are a symptom of something much larger going wrong.

In the lore, the storms were originally far more violent and frequent, and have gradually diminished over time. That detail alone suggests they are part of a broader temporal imbalance rather than the core threat.

If you want Chapter 2 spoilers, see below.

Spoiler

Tobias explicitly tells us that the Rot is returning. The same Rot that previously ravaged the world and nearly killed him. The Great Machine, also known as the Salvation Engine, was believed to have dealt with it, but there are strong hints that its solution was not permanent and instead of removing the Rot, merely transported it through time to a point that is fast-approaching.

Chapter 2 ends with Tobias actively trying to determine how to address the Rot's return. The storms appear to be a side effect of whatever temporal distortion is holding things in check and Tobias tells us that they are getting calmer as time goes on.

My suspicion is that if the storms were to simply stop on their own, that would not mean the problem is solved. It may mean time has "corrected" itself, at which point the world catches up to where it was meant to be, and the Rot returns in full force if not stronger than before.

In that context, the storms are not the catastrophe. They are the warning sign.

 

Edited March 4 by Teh Pizza Lady

[Blaiyze]

My frustration with the discussions around the Temporal Storms is it always devolves into two camps: 

One camp saying they need to be tweaked/fixed/better implemented and spitballing suggestions

And the second camp assuming that the above means overhauling the Storms to become a gift cannon event to the player - which is not in the least what most of the suggestions are saying.

The point is: yes, due to lore, the Storms are supposed to be a disruption. Fantastic. That's still not great game design esp when players are in the middle of their first couple days ever playing the game, still don't have the mechanics fully figured out, possibly in the middle of a death cycle, and then have a storm dropped on top of their heads, no shelter, no way or tools or knowledge for how to deal with the storms, and a high level enemy one shots them up the tail pipe. 

You want new players to engage in a game, and more importantly stick around, you need to give them an on ramp.

Older players, even those like me that would like to see them fleshed out or redsigned LIKE the Storms conceptually, just not with how utterly useless they end up being to the overall experience of the game. Adjusting the Storms so that enemies cannot spawn within player bases would increase the experience significantly - the engine already knows how to identify rooms and differentiate between a room and a cellar and a greenhouse, so it's in the realm of possibility. The intent of the Storms is to be a Temporal glitch/unnatural disaster, fine, but give the player base room to breathe. A mechanic that forces the players to play the way the devs want you to play, rather than letting the player engage with the game with their own creativity - is literally one of the reasons that 7dtd keeps failing its fanbase. Not that these two games are the same, but the comparison stands.

There's already the concept of tower/base defense with the Storms as is, so give us tools to deal with that. Allow us to craft something that will prevent spawns indoors/in marked rooms, allow us to craft traps/defenses that will allow us to deal with the baddies when they spawn, give some other impact from the storms such as what someone above mentioned, turn certain things to rust, damage structures to some degree, have the enemies that spawn linked to player progression in some manner so that a nekkid Seraph weilding a stone spear doesn't have to come face to face with an enemy they're not prepared for yet. Make the loot from the enemies a teensy bit more useful without turning the event into a gift cannon. 

It isn't about creating a mechanic that ends up being a benevolent gift to the player, it just creates a REASON beyond "LORRRRRRRE" to have the mechanic in the game in the first place. 

Edited March 4 by Blaiyze

[CastIronFabric]

19 minutes ago, Blaiyze said:

My frustration with the discussions around the Temporal Storms is it always devolves into two camps: 

One camp saying they need to be tweaked/fixed/better implemented and spitballing suggestions

And the second camp assuming that the above means overhauling the Storms to become a gift cannon event to the player - which is not in the least what most of the suggestions are saying.

The point is: yes, due to lore, the Storms are supposed to be a disruption. Fantastic. That's still not great game design esp when players are in the middle of their first couple days ever playing the game, still don't have the mechanics fully figured out, possibly in the middle of a death cycle, and then have a storm dropped on top of their heads, no shelter, no way or tools or knowledge for how to deal with the storms, and a high level enemy one shots them up the tail pipe. 

You want new players to engage in a game, and more importantly stick around, you need to give them an on ramp.

Older players, even those like me that would like to see them fleshed out or redsigned LIKE the Storms conceptually, just not with how utterly useless they end up being to the overall experience of the game. Adjusting the Storms so that enemies cannot spawn within player bases would increase the experience significantly - the engine already knows how to identify rooms and differentiate between a room and a cellar and a greenhouse, so it's in the realm of possibility. The intent of the Storms is to be a Temporal glitch/unnatural disaster, fine, but give the player base room to breathe. A mechanic that forces the players to play the way the devs want you to play, rather than letting the player engage with the game with their own creativity - is literally one of the reasons that 7dtd keeps failing its fanbase. Not that these two games are the same, but the comparison stands.

There's already the concept of tower/base defense with the Storms as is, so give us tools to deal with that. Allow us to craft something that will prevent spawns indoors/in marked rooms, allow us to craft traps/defenses that will allow us to deal with the baddies when they spawn, give some other impact from the storms such as what someone above mentioned, turn certain things to rust, damage structures to some degree, have the enemies that spawn linked to player progression in some manner so that a nekkid Seraph weilding a stone spear doesn't have to come face to face with an enemy they're not prepared for yet. Make the loot from the enemies a teensy bit more useful without turning the event into a gift cannon. 

It isn't about creating a mechanic that ends up being a benevolent gift to the player, it just creates a REASON beyond "LORRRRRRRE" to have the mechanic in the game in the first place. 

The creator of Intel back in the 90s said that if an answer to the question of 'why' is 'because we always have done it that way. Then that is a sign that it needs to change, not because of that specific answer but because that is the first answer given.

'because of the lore' is a version of that. If the only or even the first answer one can come up with is instinctively 'because of the lore' then because of that being the most important default answer its likely that it needs to change. Lore is not written by an immutable god and its not a card that one can play thinking its a sacred answer that should never be questioned.

Edited March 4 by CastIronFabric