Grìmm Cennad Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Hello! I hope everyone here is well. I am a linguist at the University of Edinburgh and have been following and playing Vintage Story for some years now. I love the game and its community, and I wanted to make a proposal for a way in which I would like to contribute to this game that has given me so much joy and peace over the years: As someone who's day-to-day involves linguistics (and psychology!), I think that the realism and immersion that this game strives to achieve, would be benefited by perhaps a slightly less intuitive addition: a language that the people of this dystopia speak, that those who awaken such as the player-character need to learn steadfast in order to be able to interact with traders and village outposts.. I think that this will add an additional flair of uniqueness and intrigue to the trading system in the game AND its lore, which will further make it stand as a pinnacle of indie development. I have outlined some of my proposals for where we could take this idea below: * The lore of the game, even before the rust apocalypse, separates significantly from historical developments in real life. Language is not a linearly changing phenomenon and so paying heed to this aspect of 'realism' would add to Vintage Story's fantasy, and the developed conlang could itself be an object of worldbuilding. * Players will NOT be forced to be lingua-geeks, if they don't want to. I propose that through interaction with traders (who would be used to newcomers needing to learn the language), and through inscriptions the player could interact with on ruins or in loot drops, learnt 'vocabulary and grammar' would be presented as the user's selected language under settings; the same language of their UI and interface. So, for example, if the player is playing in English, as they play, more and more of the dialogue they see will be in English. I propose a separate setting where, if the player wishes it, they can disable the previously described replacement feature, and instead can actually attempt to learn the conlang, the way they would have to as though they were really in that situation. I suggest this be an optional feature for gameplay clarity. * An idea that has occured to me is that the player, in the character creator, could choose to select a trait or class, where their native tongue is 'more similar' to the language of the people of this new world. This would from a gameplay standpoint allow them to begin trading with and interacting with NPCs quicker in their progression than they would otherwise. This could perhaps be the addition that could give the Commoner class its own unique flair? These are but my humble suggestions and I understand if you deem that this is not something you are interested in exploring. If, however, you are curious to hear more from me, I am happy to work alongside you as the person to develop said conlang, and develop this idea further. Thank you for reading, and thank you for your amazing game. I reposted this here from the discord #suggestions by the instruction of the channel description. Feel free to contact me on Discord if you have any questions^^. Sincerely, Grìmm Cennad 4
LadyWYT Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 4 hours ago, Grìmm Cennad said: * Players will NOT be forced to be lingua-geeks, if they don't want to. I propose that through interaction with traders (who would be used to newcomers needing to learn the language), and through inscriptions the player could interact with on ruins or in loot drops, learnt 'vocabulary and grammar' would be presented as the user's selected language under settings; the same language of their UI and interface. So, for example, if the player is playing in English, as they play, more and more of the dialogue they see will be in English. I propose a separate setting where, if the player wishes it, they can disable the previously described replacement feature, and instead can actually attempt to learn the conlang, the way they would have to as though they were really in that situation. I suggest this be an optional feature for gameplay clarity. I like the idea, however, I don't think it works very well in practice when it comes to actual gameplay. Most players aren't going to want to learn a new language just to play the game, and even if the player character learns the language automatically over time, most players are probably going to get frustrated if they have to spend X amount of time just doing basic interactions with NPCs in order to learn enough of the language to progress the story. I think this kind of concept is better suited for TTRPGs, where characters can choose to specialize in certain languages and then just make a skill check to see whether or not they understand the NPC in question. In that case, the language feels real enough to immerse the player in the world, but isn't going to bog down the story. 4 hours ago, Grìmm Cennad said: * An idea that has occured to me is that the player, in the character creator, could choose to select a trait or class, where their native tongue is 'more similar' to the language of the people of this new world. This would from a gameplay standpoint allow them to begin trading with and interacting with NPCs quicker in their progression than they would otherwise. This could perhaps be the addition that could give the Commoner class its own unique flair? Given what the lore is, I'm not sure there's a good way to pull this off. Spoiler The player character has been absent from the world for about five centuries or so, and just recently popped back into existence. It'd be similar to someone from late medieval England/early English colonial period disappearing from reality and popping back up in the present day in England or America. The English is kind of similar enough that they could probably make themselves understood and communicate with other English speakers, but it'll also be pretty obvious that they're out of place. In any case, that's also the best case scenario. Language is already something of a plot hole, considering that everyone understands each other, even in the Old World, despite being from drastically different regions(different parts of Europe, as well as Asia and the Middle East). The player character and some NPCs could be from just about anywhere, so the likelihood of everyone being able to speak the same language is already pretty small. Incidentally, I think the language issue applies to storytelling in general, and not just gameplay in videogames. Sometimes different languages, or even just different grammatical choices, can enhance the story and make the world feel more authentic. However, it's also important for the reader to be able to easily tell what's happening when it comes to the main plot; if they can't understand critical dialogue then they're likely going to be confused/frustrated and give up on the story.
Thorfinn Posted April 5 Report Posted April 5 (edited) Welcome to the forums, @Grìmm Cennad No Man's Sky does this, after a fashion. You could use it as a model, though give more than one word per interaction, please. Hundreds of interactions later, you still have pretty much no clue what is being said. Edited April 5 by Thorfinn
Sleeves Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 I think this would work best if left purely in ruins. Perhaps the traders speak a more modern language which your character is already familiar with? That way you wouldn't have to engage with it for gameplay purposes, which I suspect would help players retain patience for the system. That being said, it's a very fun idea, and I love language learning in other games. It would be especially cool to decipher glyphs using their proximity to other symbols in cave paintings :-]
LadyWYT Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Sleeves said: I think this would work best if left purely in ruins. Perhaps the traders speak a more modern language which your character is already familiar with? Ironically, it's the other way around regarding the lore. The player character is able to read older written language, while most of the NPCs are not. The spoken language is similar enough that the player character can talk to NPCs just fine, but will also speak with a "funny accent" from the NPC point of view. It'd probably be the equivalent of a modern-day English speaker trying to have a conversation with an English speaker from the 1600s/1700s or so--the languages are still similar enough that conversations can be had, but both parties are definitely going to notice that something is a little off with the other. 1
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