Should there be a weather grace period, like there is for mobs?

[Broccoli Clock]

As some of you might know, I'm Scottish, that means I am very (very, VERY) well acquainted with bad weather and in game I have no issue with the rain and gloom and bad temperatures. It's "normal"

One thing I noticed when I went on a bit of a binge watch of people playing VS for the first time is the number of people complaining about the rain. We all know how it works, we've all had spawns where it didn't stop raining for the first 4 days or so. We all deal with it, knowing that's correct for the latitude/time of year and that it would clear up eventually.

For new players, especially those who will take time to grasp the meta, the rain is quite a common complaint. To the point of several of them quitting their playthrough - admittedly not just on that point alone but it was a big contributing factor.

I have a feeling this might help streamers too, Tomato just did a huge playthrough (available on Twitch, for some reason the live streams on their YT are members only - three 4+ hour streams) and they were constantly turning off the rain, via the console at spawn, purely for content reasons.

As we have a grace period for mobs, would it be wise to have a grace period for weather too? The game can look so lovely in during the day so it seems almost counter productive to allow it to start with rain, fog, limited visibility and low light.

 

 

[Rainbow Fresh]

I may not be affected by this as I am neither making content out of the game, nor consuming the content other streamers make out of it (and I am also well-versed and quick on the draw when it comes to "fixing" things via commands) and as such have a more blunt opinion on it, but I really don't see a point to limit a mostly asthetic, partially helpful and fully RNG mechanic for the sake of some content creator's video not looking nicer.

Logically speaking, monsters are dangerous and hindering. They spawn in early when you have literally nothing to defend yourself, let alone fight back, you are pretty much barred from making any positive game progress. Hence, having a grace period on monster spawns (afaik extended in 1.22 to hostile animals aswell?) makes sense.

Rain is a weather effect. It does not harm you, it does not kill you, it does not stop you from doing anything. Worst it can do is make the beautiful environment and lighting shaders look not as nice. On the other hand, rain helps greatly growing earliest game crops, before you can even afford to make a watering can. Limiting rainfall to only be allowed to start after, say, day 5 means you have 5 days in which you are physically unable to grow food, which you need sooner rather than later, lest you already found, formed and cooked clay. Which I don't necessarily expect the average first time player to do, or if they do, not spend it on a watering can. (I sure underestimated farming and food prep in my first year...)

I, too, in my first year of the game living near spawn in a temperate, "very common rainfall" area has nearly constant rain. Couldn't see the sun to judge the time of the day for most parts, got annoyed when the 5 minutes of clear skies turned into downfall again. But it never stopped me from doing anything. And I knew that it is also partially my fault for living in a "very common rainfall" area. If it really bothered me that much, I could just move to more arid regions. Head south not care about the harshness of winter. My base wasn't really far developed back then. But the area was nice so the rain couldn't bother me enough to move. Now I am in my second year and all I want is some rain, which hasn't fallen since the snow melted, so I don't have to water my crops every second day and can afford to go venture out a bit further again.

Edited Tuesday at 11:07 AM by Rainbow Fresh
Expanded with personal experience

[williams_482]

I'd support the game defaulting to sunshine at world creation. It doesn't have to last long, but I think it's useful and pleasant for a player's very first moments in the game to give them a good, clear view of the surrounding terrain. This game is often beautiful, and that's an understated but substantial part of it's charm. Lean into that. 

If it starts raining five minutes later, who cares. You've had your chance to look around, and if it bothers you just head for a drier area (but maybe plant some seeds first). The game does helpfully communicate how much rain is to be expected in any given location so it's pretty easy to avoid the worst of the weather once you know what you are doing. 

[Broccoli Clock]

2 hours ago, Rainbow Fresh said:

... but I really don't see a point to limit a mostly asthetic, partially helpful and fully RNG mechanic for the sake of some content creator's video not looking nicer.

I was pretty clear as to why, I didn't suggest it was to be default more that the option is there for streamers.

While I sort of agree with you, people should play the game the way it's intended or install a heap of mods to suit what you want, the world of streamers is different. I'll find a lot will install a mod to remove the debuff of holding a torch in their offhand. Is this to benefit them? No, it's to benefit their viewers, as watching someone stumble about in the dark is not worth watching. Why pander to these situations? One simple reason, a streamer can convince people to buy the game, its about the best PR you can get these days. Providing an optional setting that encourages users to engage and possibly buy the game is surely the best strategy.

As for in general, people are being put off by the constant rain and gloomy skies. That's just a fact, feel free to view the sorts of videos I do and you'll see it's a common complaint. There is absolutely no reason for it to rain for days at the start. None at all, so it's hardly canon, and therefore should be mutable.

14 minutes ago, williams_482 said:

I'd support the game defaulting to sunshine at world creation. It doesn't have to last long, but I think it's useful and pleasant for a player's very first moments in the game to give them a good, clear view of the surrounding terrain. This game is often beautiful, and that's an understated but substantial part of it's charm. Lean into that. 

Yeah, a more welcoming environment, even for a short period of time will greatly help onboarding.

Edited Tuesday at 01:37 PM by Broccoli Clock

[LadyWYT]

Yes but also no. Harmful weather effects, like large hail, should have a grace period, since these can easily kill a player on a new world if the hail is widespread. Rain and fog and stuff that doesn't hurt the player though? Those shouldn't be disabled, unless it's via mod. Not every place is going to be sunshine and the best aesthetics ever for someone's video, and of course what makes "proper" weather for a video is a bit subjective anyway, I would say. 

Now if the status effect system adds some penalties for being out in the rain too long without proper protection, then there might be a better case for adding a grace period for weather, since spawning in a rain-heavy area and proceeding to catch a debilitating illness probably isn't going to be a great experience for new players.

[Broccoli Clock]

16 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Yes but also no. Harmful weather effects, like large hail, should have a grace period, since these can easily kill a player on a new world if the hail is widespread. Rain and fog and stuff that doesn't hurt the player though? Those shouldn't be disabled, unless it's via mod. Not every place is going to be sunshine and the best aesthetics ever for someone's video, and of course what makes "proper" weather for a video is a bit subjective anyway, I would say. 

While I do agree with you, I think the streamer ecosphere is "different enough" for it to be an option.

Some will carry a torch so that the "content" is visible, yet install a mod to stop the debuff. The argument being, people want to see stuff, if they don't they won't watch and if they don't watch what is the point of playing that game. It's very reductive and I find "streamer influence" to be quite annoying but it is part of the scene, for better or worse.

If you have streamers that are using mods, command lines, etc, just to make the game "more visibly appealing" why not offer that option from the settings. We already have a grace period for some things, how about other things. I'm not suggesting it removes the weather altogether, but engagement with streamers is partly how the VS brand is spread, and the game can look bloody lovely at times. Just seems a shame to force dour, wet, and constant foggy environment on the player the minute they enter the world.

I have said in my original post, I'm used to bad weather in real life and happy to deal with it in game, but then... I'm not a streamer trying to appeal to possibly 10 of 1000s of viewers.

 

I can see why some may use the "why should streamers get special treatment" argument, but I feel that's not the correct framing. I have no reason to pander to this group, it's just offering a little leeway in order to onboard viewers so that the brand is expanded. That last part benefits all of us.

[Broccoli Clock]

Update: So I played the first in game hours of the 1.22 release, and guess what...

...clear blue skies, all the time. Maybe the recent stable update has maybe mitigated the constant downpour upon spawn.

[LadyWYT]

6 hours ago, Broccoli Clock said:

If you have streamers that are using mods, command lines, etc, just to make the game "more visibly appealing" why not offer that option from the settings. We already have a grace period for some things, how about other things. I'm not suggesting it removes the weather altogether, but engagement with streamers is partly how the VS brand is spread, and the game can look bloody lovely at times. Just seems a shame to force dour, wet, and constant foggy environment on the player the minute they enter the world.

Oh for sure, but I'm also wary of weighting things too heavily in favor of streamers/content creators. An option for weather isn't that bad, but also not something I think is that important either when there are world edit tools/commands to deal with that kind of thing. It doesn't really seem that difficult to run a command off-camera or even on-camera, if necessary during the stream.