Persistence Hunting

[Heegrim]

Animals should get tired and no longer be able to run after around a day of constantly being chased. This is the main method of hunting that early humans used so it would be nice if we could chase animals to exhaustion to be able to easily kill them with a knife/spear or more easily capture them. 

[LadyWYT]

What's the point though? Players already complain about having to chase animals for a couple of in-game hours to kill them...I don't seem them enjoying needing to chase animals for a day or more just to kill it via exhaustion. There's also the little problem of energy gained from the food harvested versus energy spent chasing the animal. Chasing an animal for an entire day is going to burn through a lot of energy, for a bit of meat that will maybe last a day. Hunting yields could be increased, but at that point the player is facing less survival pressure since food stops being a concern, and spending a lot of time chasing prey to exhaustion probably isn't going to be very attractive when the conventional methods can yield more rewards in less time.

[Jubal]

I think the other point here is that the Seraphs are not otherwise faced with the same constraints as humans. They can't do things a human can do (an actual human can go longer without food!), and can do things a human can't do (outrun quadrupeds on two legs, turn thread into cloth instantaneously by apparent magic, single-handedly carve a decent sized room out of a rockface within a single day).

It could be a fun mod to have a "no we're really going to make the PC work as like a human as possible" but if you did such a mod right, it would be essentially impossible for solo players, humans are a gregarious species and most of the ways we function, early hunting methods very much included, require working in groups.

[PigeonK]

I really like this idea. My interpretation (as a counterpoint to LadyWYT's interpretation) is that the player would be able to hunt normally if chosen, but following an animal long enough causes it to progressively get slower, making hitting spear throws or melee attacks easier. I agree that chasing an animal for a whole day is too long if it was a necessary time investment for the kill, but the point seems to be that hunting otherwise works normally and an exhaustion mechanic would make it easier to catch an animal the longer the hunt takes. This would actually be a great mechanic to help the players that complain about hunting taking too long.

[Rainbow Fresh]

1 hour ago, PigeonK said:

I really like this idea. My interpretation (as a counterpoint to LadyWYT's interpretation) is that the player would be able to hunt normally if chosen, but following an animal long enough causes it to progressively get slower, making hitting spear throws or melee attacks easier. I agree that chasing an animal for a whole day is too long if it was a necessary time investment for the kill, but the point seems to be that hunting otherwise works normally and an exhaustion mechanic would make it easier to catch an animal the longer the hunt takes. This would actually be a great mechanic to help the players that complain about hunting taking too long.

I could potentially see merit in running an animal into exhaustion as alternative to capture wild animals for domestication. Seeing as my personal experience with using the one trap that's in the game makes me think running the animal into the ground for a day to guaranteed just... capture it manually would have been a better time than sitting next to a box, waiting for a the baby goat's trap food cooldown to wear off, and occasionally chase it back towards the trap.

For hunting purposes though, I, too, still do not see the point. If persistence hunting exists simultaneously to normal hunting with a bow... why bother wasting a day when you can spend 5 arrows? As mentioned before, persistence hunting by itself is rather questionable; if it takes a day you'd spend more energy chasing the animal down than it provides you. Which *could* work, from a balancing perspective, in the early game being like a passive reward of meat for players that keep chasing an animal down while living off of berries and mushrooms along the way exploring in the pre-bow days - but it would still be rather tedious and empower the already existing complaints about hunting. Early players need to run after the animals while chugging spears anyway, this would just replace the spear chugging with more running. On the other hand, if it takes significantly shorter to exhaust an animal it could become too easy to hunt. Especially since I can already see someone exploiting their water AI by just physically sitting at the shore, spook the animal into the water again where it loses "aggro" and swims back to shore in an endless cycle.

And, of course, as mentioned above if persistence hunting simply exists besides normal hunting, why would anyone choose more work over shooting a couple arrows?

Edited 23 hours ago by Rainbow Fresh

[Heegrim]

14 hours ago, Rainbow Fresh said:

I could potentially see merit in running an animal into exhaustion as alternative to capture wild animals for domestication. Seeing as my personal experience with using the one trap that's in the game makes me think running the animal into the ground for a day to guaranteed just... capture it manually would have been a better time than sitting next to a box, waiting for a the baby goat's trap food cooldown to wear off, and occasionally chase it back towards the trap.

For hunting purposes though, I, too, still do not see the point. If persistence hunting exists simultaneously to normal hunting with a bow... why bother wasting a day when you can spend 5 arrows? As mentioned before, persistence hunting by itself is rather questionable; if it takes a day you'd spend more energy chasing the animal down than it provides you. Which *could* work, from a balancing perspective, in the early game being like a passive reward of meat for players that keep chasing an animal down while living off of berries and mushrooms along the way exploring in the pre-bow days - but it would still be rather tedious and empower the already existing complaints about hunting. Early players need to run after the animals while chugging spears anyway, this would just replace the spear chugging with more running. On the other hand, if it takes significantly shorter to exhaust an animal it could become too easy to hunt. Especially since I can already see someone exploiting their water AI by just physically sitting at the shore, spook the animal into the water again where it loses "aggro" and swims back to shore in an endless cycle.

And, of course, as mentioned above if persistence hunting simply exists besides normal hunting, why would anyone choose more work over shooting a couple arrows?

I agree that the AI would have to be a bit smarter so they don’t keep fleeing into the ocean and coming back. 
 

This would be more of a change geared towards new players or stone age/nomadic roleplayers. It’s not really something meant to be done once you have good ranged weapons.

People also did not sprint after animals while hunting this way, they would hike at a steady pace so they wouldn’t become exhausted (as someone else mentioned: you could forage along the way).

I think animals should have a slightly larger detection range to make being skilled with a ranged weapon even more rewarding. They should also drop or become wounded/slowed with fewer spear hits so that ranged hunting doesn’t just become a lengthy chase in the first place. 

[Rainbow Fresh]

7 hours ago, Heegrim said:

This would be more of a change geared towards new players or stone age/nomadic roleplayers. It’s not really something meant to be done once you have good ranged weapons.

You see, you say this - but then also this.

7 hours ago, Heegrim said:

They should also drop or become wounded/slowed with fewer spear hits so that ranged hunting doesn’t just become a lengthy chase in the first place. 

Stone age/nomadic roleplayers, ok; but the game shouldn't introduce a whole mechanic with all its balancing challenges and such for a very specific sub-set of players. Geared towards new players though? It takes all of 90 seconds if your spawn isn't completely barren to craft your first stone/flint spear. That means it takes all of 90 seconds to make the mechanic obsolete for beginner players as just throwing a spear to then potentially even wound/slow down the animal for an easier follow-up kill is in any way, form and shape superior to running- excuse me, hiking after them. I can also attest from personal experience that, given temperate climate start and average world gen luck, you can easily make it to late fall of your first year without hunting lest you push for leather which a beginner player won't cause they don't know what to push for. By that time surely you have a simple bow and some few arrows ripped out of bowtorns.

And speaking of "running vs hiking" and aformentioned balancing challenges: If most animals that need proper hunting (aka. anything that isn't a chicken) run away from the player at the speed of sound to begin with, if you don't run but just casually stroll after them it might take a fair while for you to catch up. Which begs the question: How long will an animal be exhausted for? Make it too short, and hiking won't work. Make it too long and animals will naturally present them as free meat because just everyday existence with the occasional "walking for player crops, get spooked by player" will "chase" them often enough for them to be exhausted. Getting this right is very finicky business which wouldn't be needed at all.

EDIT: And of course, lets not forget the second balancing question; does this affect only prey, or also predator? Imaging running in a circle long enough an a brown bear becoming literally a free kill. Sound kinda overpowered, no matter how realistic or not it might be. Make predators unaffected and the beginner player will complain that it'S stupid and nonsensical that the one animal they WANT to get away from never gets tired.

Edited 1 hour ago by Rainbow Fresh