More threats to harvests / stores

[Crimeo]

The main reasons why real life medieval peasants didn't all just advance to steam power in a decade or something while swimming in tons of excess food, is that unlike in this game, every single harvest didn't go 100% perfectly like clockwork, and stores were not 100% sacrosanct once laid in.

• Extreme non-scheduled weather events, storms strong enough to kill crops, unscheduled early or late frosts, heat waves, etc. (Being more conservative with your planting schedules or holding seeds in reserve; more benefit to greenhouses by mitigating damage)
• Locusts (kill crops but you can catch and eat the locusts themselves to an extent or slow them down as crawling nymphs with trenches and burning/drowning)
• Blights for certain crops that make them non viable for awhile (probably need an exception for flax prior to wool being in the game as a viable alternative)
• Flying raiders like crows that go over fences (scarecrows/guard animals can deter, scarecrows need to be frequently moved or they realize it's not alive)
• Rats get into storage if you don't have cats or dogs prowling your property

Year 1 could be chill with weather and plagues to give you a reliable chance, but opens up after that. Overall, the main defense against all of these in addition to individual defenses listed, is just having bigger farms than now, more excess, and storage methods that last 2+ years to absorb a bad harvest

[LadyWYT]

Welcome to the game and forums!

16 minutes ago, Crimeo said:

The main reasons why real life medieval peasants didn't all just advance to steam power in a decade or something while swimming in tons of excess food, is that unlike in this game, every single harvest didn't go 100% perfectly like clockwork, and stores were not 100% sacrosanct once laid in.

Even with modern advancements, it's still quite easy for a crop to fail or get wiped out by pests or weather. That being said, while these might be realistic threats, they don't make for very fun videogame mechanics since there's often no counterplay options. Some players might enjoy that kind of gameplay, but most are likely to get very frustrated when say, they planted their crops at the correct time and otherwise did everything properly, only to lose the crop because of bad RNG.

 

18 minutes ago, Crimeo said:

Extreme non-scheduled weather events, storms strong enough to kill crops, unscheduled early or late frosts, heat waves, etc. (Being more conservative with your planting schedules or holding seeds in reserve; more benefit to greenhouses by mitigating damage)

While greenhouses are useful, I don't think players should be forced into building greenhouses for absolutely everything. Likewise, telling the player "you lose" despite them doing everything right does not make for happy players.

A better solution here would probably be to add a bit of temperature fluctuation throughout the year, rather than have temperature be a static increase/decrease. That is, winters will still be appropriately cold, and summers appropriately hot, but the ideal time for planting and harvest isn't necessarily going to fall on the exact same day every year. The player could choose to plant crops as early as possible, and potentially get an earlier harvest, but it's also possible that there could be a cold snap that damages the crops. Waiting a few days to make sure the danger of frost has passed will delay a crop and might mean fewer plantings, but it's also less of a risk. Same goes for planting heat-sensitive crops later in the year--planting your turnips later in the spring might mean the crop gets damaged by an early heat wave. In any case, this solution allows the player to take some risks, as well as use their knowledge to mitigate existing risks, without slapping them with a penalty "just because".

28 minutes ago, Crimeo said:

Locusts (kill crops but you can catch and eat the locusts themselves to an extent or slow them down as crawling nymphs with trenches and burning/drowning)

Locusts are a bit much. Yes, they are edible. I don't think most players would be thrilled about eating them. The thing about locusts is that they eat every green thing in sight, so they'd be eating up more than just the crops, and to my knowledge there's no way to really slow down a locust swarm either. Maybe burning off large swaths of land, perhaps, but that's a bit much to ask of the player.

Trying to simulate all those bugs and the resulting damage is also likely to be rather rough on weaker hardware.

30 minutes ago, Crimeo said:

Blights for certain crops that make them non viable for awhile (probably need an exception for flax prior to wool being in the game as a viable alternative)

I think this works better if it's a penalty for planting the same crops in the same tiles for an extended time; same goes for pests affecting crops. Part of the reason crop rotation is a thing is to prevent diseases and pests. The player could still engage in monoculture and use fertilizer to replenish soil nutrients, but it's the kind of strategy that would become less effective over long periods of time.

 

34 minutes ago, Crimeo said:

Flying raiders like crows that go over fences (scarecrows/guard animals can deter, scarecrows need to be frequently moved or they realize it's not alive)

Scarecrows are a good solution to warding off birds from certain crops. However, I don't think it's necessary to require the player to move them around. It'd not only be a hassle, but also easy to cheese, since moving the scarecrow a single tile over would probably satisfy the requirements(or if not, then it becomes even more hassle trying to figure out how to move everything around). The player should absolutely be able to dress up the scarecrows though--not only would it be fun, but it would also be something of a resource sink for the player. They'd either need to make clothes, buy clothes, or find clothes to dress the scarecrow in.

 

39 minutes ago, Crimeo said:

Rats get into storage if you don't have cats or dogs prowling your property

Rats and mice get into storage even with cats and dogs prowling your property, though perhaps at a lower rate. In any case, I'm not sure this would be a very fun one to deal with. I'd like to see them as ambient creatures(and pets, in the case of rats), but I think a better threat to foodstores would be making rot/spoiled food increase the spoilage rate of fresher foods stored in the same containers. In that case, the player isn't going to get frustrated by trying to fight a never-ending battle with vermin, but they will need to check their foodstuffs every so often and discard items that are starting to spoil, lest they lose the entire container's worth of food. As it currently stands, the player can store fresh meat in a jar full of rot, without any consequences.

 

44 minutes ago, Crimeo said:

Year 1 could be chill with weather and plagues to give you a reliable chance, but opens up after that.

As a general rule, I think the player should face the same challenges in the first year that they will need to face throughout the rest of the game, at least when it comes to basic survival. That way they know what to expect and aren't lulled into a false sense of security, or otherwise feeling cheated when the game stops playing nice.

[Crimeo]

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 they don't make for very fun videogame mechanics since there's often no counterplay options.

That's why I listed counterplay for all of them. Keeping in mind that the final counterplay listed applies to every bullet point above it: storing 2x more than you need for this winter covers you for anything/everything befalling you next harvest, worst case.  That's really the main goal: "food, which is like 75% of all game mechanics, not becoming completely irrelevant almost right away after 1 year"

Quote

 they don't make for very fun videogame mechanics since there's often no counterplay options.

Yeah "early frost" means like 5 days earlier than normal or something, not in the middle of June. Just to get in the way of super minmaxing "I plant today, I will harvest PRECISELY 3 hours before it gets damaged" nonsense, etc. Storms are more of a threat, but some crops could be much more storm resistant than others. Grains are pretty susceptible, sunflowers would be extremely susceptible. Whereas turnips are almost immune.

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The player should absolutely be able to dress up the scarecrows though

Ah yeah, realistic clothing does make a massive difference in real life too

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As a general rule, I think the player should face the same challenges in the first year that they will need to face throughout the rest of the game

For weather, perhaps, for any sort of pests, as you yourself mentioned the pests realize an area is available more over time. The mice/crows/whatever haven't clocked that you've started a farm yet in year 1, and haven't started breeding and settling in.

[Bruno Willis]

2 hours ago, Crimeo said:

• Extreme non-scheduled weather events, storms strong enough to kill crops, unscheduled early or late frosts, heat waves, etc. (Being more conservative with your planting schedules or holding seeds in reserve; more benefit to greenhouses by mitigating damage)
• Locusts (kill crops but you can catch and eat the locusts themselves to an extent or slow them down as crawling nymphs with trenches and burning/drowning)
• Blights for certain crops that make them non viable for awhile (probably need an exception for flax prior to wool being in the game as a viable alternative)
• Flying raiders like crows that go over fences (scarecrows/guard animals can deter, scarecrows need to be frequently moved or they realize it's not alive)
• Rats get into storage if you don't have cats or dogs prowling your property

Year 1 could be chill with weather and plagues to give you a reliable chance, but opens up after that. Overall, the main defense against all of these in addition to individual defenses listed, is just having bigger farms than now, more excess, and storage methods that last 2+ years to absorb a bad harvest

I really like these ideas, and don't have much to add. I'm not 100% on locusts, just because they're small, so they'd be hard to make interactable, and also, they'd strip the wild trees and bushes too, and we don't have a way for nature to recover yet

Rats: I would love to see mechanics which gradually show the progression of time, and I think rats could be part of that. They could work by generateing rat-holes in the interior walls of rooms, rarely, after year 1. The holes would have a higher chance to generate in wood, wattle and daube, easily chewed blocks, with a small chance to generate in cobblestone, and no chance in natural stone. The holes would occasionally output a rat at night, which would then seek food placed out in the open (think on a table, on a shelf, etc.) If it ran into a storage vessel or food filled chest though it would add that storage to its list of targets, and come back to it the next night. I'd say storage vessels would be pretty hard for a rat to get into, but a chest with food in it would be no trouble, just gnaw a little hole in it. The rat would be a little animated creature with a hit-box, smaller than a racoon, but not too small. You'd be able to fill rat-holes with daube or mortar, but if the rat wasn't killed, the hole would re-open pretty quickly. 

Then of course, you'd need rat traps and rat-ona-stick barbeque as a minimum, with cats and dogs as a nice to have for later. 

[LadyWYT]

4 hours ago, Crimeo said:

That's why I listed counterplay for all of them. Keeping in mind that the final counterplay listed applies to every bullet point above it: storing 2x more than you need for this winter covers you for anything/everything befalling you next harvest, worst case.  That's really the main goal: "food, which is like 75% of all game mechanics, not becoming completely irrelevant almost right away after 1 year"

I'm not sure that I would call just making bigger farms and storing more food very satisfying counterplay. The player still loses the crop to bad RNG, and rather than do the math and produce what they need to survive the winter and plan for trips, they're reduced to hoarding food because there's just no way to know when the game will decide disaster strikes. Though I would argue that hoarding food for multiple years isn't foolproof either since there could be bad vermin RNG and wipe out those stores. There's also the problem of what happens in multiplayer if everyone's crops fail, or a few players get struck by bad RNG and the rest don't. Do the fortunate players get forced to share? Do the unfortunate players get told to suck it up and deal with it? Griefing tends to be frowned upon, and most players tend not to be keen on giving away the fruits of their labor.

Currently, food isn't terribly tough to manage, but it's deceptively simple. If the player gets lazy about foodstores or makes a miscalculation, they'll likely have to stop what they're doing and scramble to deal with the problem lest they starve. Other mistakes tend not to be quite as severe.

4 hours ago, Crimeo said:

Yeah "early frost" means like 5 days earlier than normal or something, not in the middle of June. Just to get in the way of super minmaxing "I plant today, I will harvest PRECISELY 3 hours before it gets damaged" nonsense, etc. Storms are more of a threat, but some crops could be much more storm resistant than others. Grains are pretty susceptible, sunflowers would be extremely susceptible. Whereas turnips are almost immune.

I mean if you dump enough large hail on an area, I don't think it really matters what crops are planted there--something is getting damaged. To be fair, I'm not entirely against having large hail damage crops, since that's a pretty rare weather event in the game, but heat waves and frosts are a lot more common, and thus the player should have a way to plan around them.

 

4 hours ago, Crimeo said:

Ah yeah, realistic clothing does make a massive difference in real life too

Kind of, but I was leaning more into the cosmetic strengths here. If players really need more incentive to dress scarecrows in something other than basic rawhide and strawhats, perhaps just give a "scare bonus" to scarecrows that have more clothing slots filled.

 

4 hours ago, Crimeo said:

The mice/crows/whatever haven't clocked that you've started a farm yet in year 1, and haven't started breeding and settling in.

Mice, rats, crows, and other pests are fairly smart though, and quite widespread. It doesn't really make sense that the player's homestead is going to magically be pest-free for the first year and then get assaulted for eternity when the timer is up. Setting up a grace period like that can also easily lull players into a false sense of security--since they don't have any pests or other problems the entire first year, they're going to assume that they don't need to worry about things like that. 

 

2 hours ago, Bruno Willis said:

Rats: I would love to see mechanics which gradually show the progression of time, and I think rats could be part of that. They could work by generateing rat-holes in the interior walls of rooms, rarely, after year 1. The holes would have a higher chance to generate in wood, wattle and daube, easily chewed blocks, with a small chance to generate in cobblestone, and no chance in natural stone. The holes would occasionally output a rat at night, which would then seek food placed out in the open (think on a table, on a shelf, etc.) If it ran into a storage vessel or food filled chest though it would add that storage to its list of targets, and come back to it the next night. I'd say storage vessels would be pretty hard for a rat to get into, but a chest with food in it would be no trouble, just gnaw a little hole in it. The rat would be a little animated creature with a hit-box, smaller than a racoon, but not too small. You'd be able to fill rat-holes with daube or mortar, but if the rat wasn't killed, the hole would re-open pretty quickly. 

I would want an option to turn this off, since I really don't want vermin chewing holes in my builds, and I don't want to constantly be patching holes in my builds either. Or patching holes in the furniture. Or having potential storage sacks rendered entirely unusable because something chewed a hole in it.

Probably also fair to point out that rats and mice can chew through some pretty tough materials. Mortar and some types of concrete definitely aren't immune.

Edited June 20 by LadyWYT
Grammar

[Bruno Willis]

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Probably also fair to point out that rats and mice can chew through some pretty tough materials. Mortar and some types of concrete definitely aren't immune.

Oh 100%. I've had rats chew through concrete to get into my hen house. 

[Cedric the Silent]

Interestlly rats can even chew through soft metals such as copper or lead as well, thankfully they struggle to get through harder metals such as iron or steal, I'm all for adding this pest to the game just for extra challenge though just gives me more excuse to redesign cellars of my builds and also more reasons to add pet cats to the game as another counter.

[Bruno Willis]

7 hours ago, Crimeo said:

Extreme non-scheduled weather events, storms strong enough to kill crops, unscheduled early or late frosts, heat waves, etc. (Being more conservative with your planting schedules or holding seeds in reserve; more benefit to greenhouses by mitigating damage)

I'd love this for the narrative it would add to my long-term game: "Remember that winter where it barely snowed and we ate strawberries all year round?" "Good times, good times."

Or: "Oh shit that storm just wiped out most of our grain and shredded the windmill sails. How are we going to make it through winter?!" 

If that sort of thing happened every so often it would make a long-term world so much richer, and give some good survival challenge to the later game. I actually don't think it'd be terrible if disastrous weather had the chance to happen in your first year, so long as it was unlikely. Everyone always dies in their first playthrough, enough that they learn and make a new world. I don't think it would be a problem if occasionally that first world was lost to weather rather than bears camping spawn. 

Edited June 20 by Bruno Willis
Bad grammar.

[Cedric the Silent]

I can imagine multiplayer servers having players roleplay as professional medieval style rat catchers, maybe having modders developing advance rat catching traps, poisons, and smoking them out tools alongside using cats. If status effects get added to the game as hinted, then rats can also be a source of illness and diseases. Would also be interesting if players could build rat proof grain storages like the Roman horrea which was objectively better anti rat designed grain house than what most of Europe had in medieval period, I could see players trying out those designs and debating on which one works best in game.

[Kulze]

6 hours ago, Crimeo said:

every single harvest didn't go 100% perfectly like clockwork, and stores were not 100% sacrosanct once laid in.

That's no different to today.
It's the core reason why farmers in most western countries currently struggle extremely, because money movement has been shifted too far from sustaining necessities to upper-level things which don't 'produce anything' or are luxury goods. It's untenable unless there's a way to guarantee outcomes... which there is no working option available that's upholding commercially.

It's literally the core frustration for farmers. And intentionally introducing frustrating uncontrollable things in a game without any method to circumvent it reasonably is a prime way to kill the fun of people.
With mechanics attached to it to allow player agency behind it it's another topic though and can work.

So the question rather is: What would allow us to implement inconsistency in food generation without causing a massive issue at the same time?

I think with the 'blights' part you're on the right track there. Monocultures are prone to getting and spreading blight wide-scale. So smaller-scale fields and distance can play a role. This returns player agency to reduce damage and not cause critical failure especially in the first year where it would be devastating for many players as they don't have the means (being respectively knowledgeable and skilled does circumvent it anyway) to 'take the hit'. But it still allows for it to be a general occurence.
It does increase the infrastructure aspect needing to be managed instead, makes time more tight.

Hence keeping fields at a smaller sized and distanced from the same type of crop is a workable thing for sure if properly implemented.

The same goes for scarecrows. Managing seeds being taken away with them and enforcing simply more effort to be taken to allow crops to grow without failing. It would also make sense to properly introduce 'flowering' stages hence, them being depending on plant before/while or after being ripe, having to give up one or the other. That might become quite invested though to learn for a new player.

For storage I'll definitely state 'no' though, you've already had the risks applied once, double-dipping into it would just be too much then, something needs to stay solid to keep it enjoyable as a game.
And unless we get proper long-term lasting storage options like smoked meat for 5+ years dry-hanged in a room or have a overall farming rework it's just not a good thing to have. There is a reason why the majority of people go for pies ultimately. Grain and veggies are both easily accessible and can be stored for massive amounts of time compared to meat after all and the pie turns into empty storage space rather then pots and crocks while also needing a bowl with you.

The idea of @LadyWYTalso works, with the heat-/cold-waves, though only with some additions. Standalone ultimately you then still have no player agency over it. All your effort can simply be wated and that won't feel good.
It becomes viable though if we gets an option to heat up a greenhouse though. Cooling it is unviable... but heating for the earlier/later times of the year to extend farming time does absolutely function. It's not perfectly realistic as plants don't only react to weather changes but also the wavelength of light which changes depending on the season and hence sun-positioning... but it's closer to a realistic and risky farming experience without taking control completely out of the player's hands.

As for 'store more': That's no 'counterplay' that's just extra work, hence extra tedium. Not a good solution. If that's the case it's easier to reduce yield then introducing a new mechanic, it ultimately has the same effect then.
Realism for the sake of adding realism tends to lead to a worse experience then otherwise. Ultimately VS still is a game and has to fulfill the fun-factor, realism simply has to be sacrificed for that.

[Bumber]

22 hours ago, Crimeo said:

• Locusts (kill crops but you can catch and eat the locusts themselves to an extent or slow them down as crawling nymphs with trenches and burning/drowning)

But we've got locusts at home caves.

[Bruno Willis]

13 hours ago, Kulze said:

So the question rather is: What would allow us to implement inconsistency in food generation without causing a massive issue at the same time?

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this post, and this is a really good question for us to keep in mind as we brainstorm.

So to sum up so far, the ideas which seem to have some support are:

• Weather variation that can affect crops (Contentious).
• Birds and scarecrows to mess with but not wipe out crops
• Blight hitting monocrops
• Rats targeting stores, and rat catching methods. 

Kulze noted that we need to carefully balance risk to planted crops and risk to food stores, so that we don't add too much risk.

LadyWYT has pointed out that the way to deal with weather disasters is to have good food stores, which can then be ruined if we add rodents targeting stores - punishing the solution to the first problem, which seems to suggest we can choose either weather disasters or rats, but not both. Crimeo has suggested some more minor weather variation like early frosts, which just prevent people from mathsing out and perfecting their planting schedual, but don't wipe out a crop, and I've added that it can be positive variation (mild autumn) as well as negative (early frost). LadyWYT noted that bad hail is rare enough that it could damage crops without being too much of an issue. Crimeo pointed out that turnips would be more resistant to weather disaster than grains. 

Cedric the Silent gave a very compelling argument for why rodents in stores could be fun gameplay. LadyWYT pointed out that it would be pretty annoying if rats actually altered your builds with rat-holes that needed to be re-filled. 

My favourite suggestions so far are:

• Minor weather variation (occasional late frosts, mild winters, rare heavy hail).
• Blight hitting monocrops (From what I can see, I think we all like this idea if implemented fairly).
• Rats which can be trapped or dealt with by cats, but don't damage builds. 

[qualicabyss]

I kinda like rats just because of how funny they could be
Build a steel door to keep the rats out of your food
Catch rats in traps for rat meat
build a rat pit and push drifters in so they get eaten alive by rats
free cat and fox food
give your friends the plague

[Cedric the Silent]

Imagine an entire server getting some type of black plague all because one player refused to clear his house of its rat infestation. It really makes me want a disease system just for the barber surgeon mask to finally have real use and the RP potential of playing as a traveling doctor in a multiplayer server.

Edited June 21 by Cedric the Silent

[Loosebearings]

I've always found it a bit boring how predictable the weather is, so I'm all for having a little bit of variation. You'd actually have to look at the temperature and do some math to see if it's worth the risk or not instead of just memorizing the day to plant each crop.

I don't see any reason not to add diseases hitting monocrops too, as long as it's fairly easy to avoid with proper planning and it happens slow enough to give a player warning before their whole harvest is destroyed. Right now there's really no reason to plant more than just the same 3 types of crops each year for each nutrient type, though having more crops have different uses than just eating could help give a reason to plant different crops e.g flax for fibers and fennel for bait.

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, Cedric the Silent said:

Imagine an entire server getting some type of black plague all because one player refused to clear his house of its rat infestation.

Servers would need some sort of control over the mechanic. Otherwise you end up with griefers deliberately sabotaging a town with vermin and frustrating everyone else. Or players who take a break from the game get overrun by vermin while they're away and there's nothing anyone can really do about it, aside from server admins.

 

1 hour ago, Cedric the Silent said:

It really makes me want a disease system just for the barber surgeon mask to finally have real use and the RP potential of playing as a traveling doctor in a multiplayer server.

In fairness, you don't really need a server-wide plague to RP a doctor effectively, and a server-wide plague is probably going to require admin intervention in order to actually stop. For roleplaying though, a status effect system should be enough to make RPing a doctor worthwhile. It's not just disease that needs to be treated--it's the combat injuries and broken bones from falls as well. For a traveling doctor, it could be as simple as venturing outside the office to make house calls, or actively traveling from town to town, though I'd wager most sizeable settlements will try to convince a doctor to stay in order to ensure they have better access to medical care.

[Cedric the Silent]

12 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Servers would need some sort of control over the mechanic. Otherwise you end up with griefers deliberately sabotaging a town with vermin and frustrating everyone else. Or players who take a break from the game get overrun by vermin while they're away and there's nothing anyone can really do about it, aside from server admins.

Of course, one thing I love about this game is how much control is given when setting up the world settings so of course if they ever add such things, it should be completely adjustable like other settings.

Also, I hope if they ever add that herbalism system, I wonder what interesting way they may implement it. Personally, the one game I think back to when I think about videogame alchemy system that at least felt somewhat immersive to me was Kingdom Come: Deliverance. I hope whatever system they make will be on that level or better including all the tools and maybe some realistic recipes for medicines and poisons from real life. Also hope they expand the number of herbs, mushrooms, flowers and add spices.

[Cedric the Silent]

Been thinking about the rat idea and a need for building granaries to protect from them, it would be nice if they had special rules similar to structures like the cellar and greenhouses. Its rules can be a wooden or brick structure built on post or staddle stones above ground with a door and roof, it would give complete protection of grain from rodents but would have lesser spoilage protection than a cellar. Historically grain and seeds were the main things stored there while all the root vegetables and other foodstuff would go into the cellar. Rodent infestations would give players new structures they must consider building for long term survival. It would also make players separate their grains from leafy and root vegetables which would make organizing a bit easier as one wouldn't ever mistake which vessel is the grain filled vessel or the non-grain filled ones when rooting around their cellars ever again as they would know where all their grain is located as it's in own special storage safe from rats.

Edited June 21 by Cedric the Silent

[Cedric the Silent]

Had another random thought about the granary and think it would be a good idea that grains act like coal were you place them down they pile up into layers instead of small separate little piles, this would make it more realistic for the granary idea instead of placing vessels or crates inside the granary. 

[Kulze]

For the issue with punishing a solution... a line of solutions is also doable, though it's then important to take into consideration how much effort it is in accumulation. If you need more time to save you food then you need to actually gather said food it becomes unfeasable, especially early-game.

So weather and blight are definitely on the menu. Rats? Fun idea, though a lot harder to balance if either of the aforementioned is introduced. But still viable, just harder.

As LadyWYT pointed out, having the ability to design this yourself in severty is definitely a major point, so further expansion of the world options as well as commands to adjust those things mid-game.
With the choice of having or not having it, as well as severty it allows a lot of player agency over it. Baseline mild versions being introduced but much like cave-ins it can be expanded upon to become a significant issue to handle. That's a big plus in my book at least.

The rat idea specifically is a bit more complex as we can see from the variety of solutions being thrown around.

Granaries sound like a great idea. Which opens up the discussion about root cellars, granaries and greenhouses in general though. If another addition comes in... would it make sense to then also look over the functionality of a root cellar especially? If we got granaries for large-scale storage of grain it kinda calls for a bit more immersion with root cellars as well. Vessels are a nice thing... though they're prone to accumulate moisture, making vegetables rot easily as any rot stays trapped inside.
One option to make the food storage itself harder without significantly hindering early-game would be to introduce dry-storage. A grated box at the bottom with a filled grated box at the top. Any rot goes down and hence doesn't spread as fast. Vessels are good for dry-goods storage in general though, hence dried meat, grain, those things. In smaller amounts for grain especially though I would argue, making the granary itself a feasable and sought-after building along the way.

One issue with the current system is after all that harvests produce a massive amount of grain, and grain is extremely long-term storable, so expanding on the need for containers is one countermeasure definitely.

This way we can also introduce the rat issues and tie it into the common other issues of root cellars. The first being that the necessities for a root cellar get expanded. The bottommost block needs a intake vent (adding a new variety of block out of a few possible materials. Dirt and brick specifically only) while the topmost block of the room has to have the same. Intake and outtake airation.

Splitting up the storage methods into different types rather then 'vessel is best' would already implement a lot of extra effort, hence larger scarcity.
With the airation it plays well into rat plagues, as a hole in your cellar is a prime reason why a rat would be able to get inside in the first place. So a grated vent as a upgrade starting mid-game (bronze, or iron later on) would be a interesting addition. And early game the need to manually trap and empty those traps to ensure reduced losses.

I rambled on a bit there, got me some ideas, but I hope the overall direction is visible from my post at least  

[Heegrim]

I think flying pests would be a good addition since we already have scarecrows in game, especially if we can dress them up with all the raggedy clothes we collect (great suggestion).
Bunnies should also have a chance to burrow under fences and pet wolves/cats can be used to hunt or keep them away.

More variety between the crops currently in the game would be nice too. Some could be more resistant to different diseases/pests/temperatures than others. 

[Cedric the Silent]

Moles that threaten our crops would be a idea to consider and using traps like the reed trap to stop them or use a pet cat or dog to scare them off or hunt them.

[Bruno Willis]

On 6/30/2026 at 9:23 AM, Cedric the Silent said:

using traps like the reed trap to stop them

It'd be great to give further uses to the reed trap for mid and late game. I could imagine a tech tree for traps, with metal ones later which have higher chances to catch.

I could also imagine a system where each type of trap looses effectiveness over time - simulating animals learning about the trap - and then regains effectiveness when unused, so you might want to keep several different sorts of traps and change between them occasionally (a system you'd intuit a bit from crop rotation). 

• Reed traps: high chance to fail. Uses bate. Catches animals alive.
• Noose trap: high chance to fail, uses bate, catches animals alive 50% of the time. Made with flax twine and a stick, and set up by right clicking branchy leaves and then the ground within 3 blocks (using a springing branch as the power behind the trap). 
• Clay trap: Same as the reed trap, with a slightly higher success rate. Made with an upside down planter, a stick.
• When we get to metals, a bunch of spring-powered mouse traps and bear traps with different chances to kill vs. capture, and different bateing needs would be fun. I'd love to see standard designs, and also weird looking designs, and some that look like they'd never work they're so crazy, and actually don't work very well. If traps loose effectiveness gradually as the animals learn the trap, it makes sense you might try your hand at a bunch of odder and odder systems (and it'd be fun to rock up to your friend's place with your patented, guaranteed to work, unique one of a kind trap to help them deal with their rat problem).