DW's Impression and Suggestions

[DMKW]

I quickly skimmed through the other threads before posting this so sorry if there are any repeat ideas.

This game certainly has a ton of potential.  Its inevitable to draw the minecraft comparison but thats ok.  Minecraft is one of my favorite games for many reasons, but I believe this game will be better and already shows more promise. 

Just some thoughts:

-berry bushes.  I love that there is something that supplies a constant supply of food.  Also multiple varieties and replantable!  One critisim I have of this is they provide all my food, negating the need for other farm crops at this point.  For balance sake, I suppose you could either decrease the amount of sustenance they provide (they already don't provide much) or decrease the amount of spawnage.  I find that i regularly come across groups of 5-8 plants.  If it was decreased to groups of 1 or 2, it would be a little more challenging in the beginning of the game.  I've never ever come close to starving to death in my early days.  Just a thought.

-I love how Torches burn out and that there are lighting options that don't but are harder to craft.  Good design there.  I love how torches are lit while in hand.  Also something that was obviously needed.  I would however like to offhand torches.  I find myself freaking out at night when a drifter approaches at night and switching out my torch for my sword and to fight the thing blindly lol. 

-I love how you can't trample farmland by jumping on to it.  This might change in the future but I hope it doesn't.  I also love that crops drain nutrients BUT also replenish them over time.  It encourages you to plan in nutrient zones and to rotate after each planting.  Its almost as simple as just replanting in place, takes a little thought and planning without being annoying.  Brilliant!  Maybe some day compost will have to worked into the soil to replenish the nutrients, but that can add a lot as well without being to grindy. (grass (weeds) growing on farmland, easily removed, nice touch)

-Wolves, these things are terrifying.  I'm not sure what was going on in my first game in 1.4.4.1(5?) but every night I felt like an endless barrage of wolves was raining down on me.  I couldn't leave my house because they would one shot kill me everywhere I went.  I personally like that they are one shot killers.  I assume that armour will be implemented at some point.  What makes me sad though is that they are so aggressive.  I  would prefer them to not be man hunters?  Maybe they are pack animals who only attack when you move within a certain proximity of them?  Id love to see them face me and growl a warning if I get to close but otherwise leave me alone.  Drifters already take the place of mindless man hunters.

Suggestions:

-A Map!!  I'm sure this is planned but I'd love to have a way to map the area around me.  Not only a map but map markers as well.  Maybe craftable way points?  Craft an obelisk type structure and place it in the world where you want it to be indicated on the map.  This way I can label villages, caves explored or unexplored, ore deposits, etc.

-Inkwell and Quil.  Maybe needed for the map.  Also could be used to record a journal.  Not something I care about so much but some may like the option.  You pull out your craftable journal and the day, month and year is displayed and text is simply added underneath and saved.

-Stew.  I have a plenty of onions, carrots, fat and wolf meat.  I don't really bother eating any of it because I have berries for days and they stack nicely in my inventory.  Combining these things with with water and maybe some herbs in a tripod style cookpot over my firepit would create a stew.  This stew would replenish the same amount as would have all these ingredients individually.  In cold environments they would warm you as well (if temperature ever plays a factor).  Bonus!

-Heavy wooden timber beams.  With the saw or another tool, remove bark from logs to create heavy timber beams.  Wooden beams are used all the time in structural builds but don't exist outside of fully barked logs or planks.  This is an easy block to add that would really add much to the creative building side of things.

-Fallen trees.  Forests have fallen trees dont they?  Just an environmental idea.  Thank you for adding full tree felling by the way.  Choping down every part of a floating tree is just silly and tedious.

-Death and inventory.  In my latest game, wolves don't seem to show up in droves every night.  I find I encounter them farely randomly now and not as often, which is a relief.  Unfortunately on a long distance quest for a blueberry bush, I encountered a wolf and it killed me.  I lost my whole inventory.  This is good and bad I suppose.  Its good because it adds a genuine fear to leaving my house.   Its bad because, well I have to leave my house eventually and well.. it was my whole inventory.  I was thinking about the backpacks, of which I had 4 at the time.  Lost those too.  What if your body died but your backpack persisted?  Wouldn't your 10 slots be like having a backpack?  So instead of having 4 backpacks which seems kind of silly, why not have 1 backpack (your 10 inventory slots) with 4 satchel like attachements for expansion?  When you are killed your backpack persists as a container which does not despawn and can be recovered if you can find where you were killed?  Maybe a skeleton is left there too (bonemeal for gardening?  maybe to morbid).. If your stuff all despawning is a gameplay decision to make exploration scarier, then another idea is to maybe allow whatever is in your 4 backpacks to persist while whatever is in your 10 slots to despawn.  That way you have a sort of despawn protection but you have to choose what is riskable and what you can part with.  Don't want to potentially lose that stack or iron?  Place it in your backpack.  Don't want to lose that perfect pick even though you use it all the time?  Well either pull it out of your backpack as needed or risk it in your 10 slots.  I dunno. 

-Luminescent mushrooms.  Found in caves.  Would add some pretty cool atmosphere.  Cant be replanted for seed but can be harvest and planted in pots and added as decoration.  Give your home a nice white blue glow!  Would look great next to you alchemy table.  Also stalactites and stalagmites in caves.

Graphical improvements.

This game already stands out from Minecraft in my opinion but there are a few things I think could be changed to increase that divide further.

-More realistic floiage (optional setting)

http://www.mc-mod.net/better-foliage-mod/

-Texture transistions (optional setting)

https://imgur.com/a/G3d6i

-New PC model.  I love the style of this game.  Its perfect for this type of game in my opinion.  Minecraft is very inconstant in its models.  On one hand they have a ridiculously blocky cow and on the other hand a much more detailed ender dragon.  Its almost like they shot themselves in the food by being a little too blocky in the beginning and are now edging into the more detailed.  The player character in this game just screams Minecraft.  PCs in minecraft are the weakest part of the game in my opinion.  Its something that many people want to customize above anything.  Of course this is a much bigger request than the suggestions above but I figured I'd throw it out there.  I'd love to see a character model more in line with all the other things in this game that are simply more detailed than minecraft.  A more detailed model would also allow you to add improved clothing and armour that feels more real instead of simply something thats blue or brown or grey to indicate the material its made from.  I'd love to see the addition of gauntlets and gloves, greaves and pauldrons.  Maybe a physical backpack visible on the player (or 4? lol) I just feel like a minecraft style PC is below the image that this game portrays.  And will cheapen NPCs as well.

These were just some things I jotted down while playing the game.  If I come up with other ideas, suggestions or personally opinions on improvements I'll post them here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[redram]

Some good ideas.  I rather like the idea of packs placing themselves so you don't lose them, though on the other hand it makes it harder to swoop in and grab them if the wolves are still there.  It's worth mentioning that wolves tend to spawn more in certain locations - cooler, and I think more mountainy or woodsy.  So if you find a lot of wolves in an area, you might try moving elsewhere possibly.

[Tyron]

Thanks for the thorough feedback @DMKW, you point out some very valid arguments on the game balance and future features. I agree with pretty every one of them and I hope I can implement at least the small changes as soon as possible.

Several of your suggestions are already on our todolist, but it is always great to have them confirmed by others. Our Cooking system is already planned through and the assets are ready, the big bottleneck right now is the programming (which is 98% me ^_^;). The same goes for the player model - a new one is ready but lacking implementation into the engine by me. Tthe current player model is merely a place holder, the new one model is more detailed and has more diverse animations. Avatar Customization ist something I would love to have but put on the back seat for now until there is more interest in multiplayer.
 

8 hours ago, DMKW said:

This game certainly has a ton of potential.

I'm glad you can see that, exactly that potential is what we are aiming for!

[Tyron]

Small tweak: Wolves used to seek out players up to 40 blocks away. I halfed it into 20 blocks as a quick fix.

[DMKW]

@redram

Thanks that clears that up for me.  You're right I was probably in an area with lots of wolf spawnage.  About the backpacks, in my game I figured if I was quick enough I could return to the spot of death and find my items floating.  I spent 2 In-game days searching the area that I believed I died in and didn't find my items.  They eventually despwned but I believe the wolf did as well, since it was so far from my world spawn.  If you returned would the wolf pack even still be there?  If it was just a random spawn?  Even If they were still there it just further stresses the importance of the persistent backpack.  Maybe your map could get marked on last death or maybe thats to easy.   

Want an easy way to kill wolves?  Create a 2 block high pillar and stand above it and throw rocks at them.  Don't have enough rocks?  Surround the pillar with berry bushes.  They can be walked through but are one block high like the wolves, so the wolves will suffocate themselves in the bushes attempting to get as close as possible to the pillar.  I imagine Tyron might fix this now that I've pointed it out though lol.  

@Tyron

That's great to hear about the new PC.  The art style in this game is absolutely spot on IMO.  It would have been sad to not see a Saraty version.  About the customization I just meant reskins.  Which is something you wouldn't have to touch, as with Minecraft, fans create simple reskinning tools on their own.  If you mean adding more armor and clothing slots then yeah thats a big job for sure and something for down the road.

Edit: meant to add this but have you seen this YouTube series?  it's brilliant.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCAL3JXZSzSm8AlZyD3nQdBA/featured

Its called Primitive Technology. 

[redram]

@DMKW  Oh ya, I died to wolves just last night, they were still there when I got back.  Fortunately for me they were trapped in a ruin I was using as a temporary base, so I could just climb on top of the walls and get the stuff.   I do wish that when you died, it would be daylight when you respawn.  It really sucks trying to find your way back in the middle of the night with no food, no weapons, and no light.  But then, it'd probably be a good idea to build a small hut with backup stuff at spawn, also.  Though that's not really practical if you traveled a really long ways from spawn.

I'd completely forgotten we could throw rocks, so ya that's a good tip.  As for the berry bushes thing, that's weird - They were solid last I knew.  I usually make my first base out of berry bush walls.  I've been expecting them to be made pass-through, but I was walking on top of them just a couple days ago, and they were keeping drifters out of my base (though they could hit me through the bushes if I got too close).  I wonder if it's something about the wolf bounding box that lets them get their head in the bushes and suffocate?

Map stuff would help but I can see why it might be placed behind a tech wall.   In the meantime, you can use the C key to display coordinates in the upper right, and kind of keep track of where you are when you die hopefully.

[Tyron]

4 hours ago, DMKW said:

About the customization I just meant reskins.  Which is something you wouldn't have to touch, as with Minecraft, fans create simple reskinning tools on their own.

Yea but I would also like to offer the player to select from a bunch of presets so you don't need to pick up photoshop right away.
 

4 hours ago, DMKW said:

Edit: meant to add this but have you seen this YouTube series?  it's brilliant.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCAL3JXZSzSm8AlZyD3nQdBA/featured

Its called Primitive Technology. 

Yes, I've known it for a while, I watched every episode, its awesome!

By the way, I've forgot to correct @redram post - wolfes are indeed supposed to spawn in a certain climate but a bug prevents that currently so they spawn in various locations where they shouldn't. I fixed it in the upcoming version, from then on, wolves should only appear in cold to temperate areas.

And one more remark - animals do not despawn, only drifters do. So that wolf you didn't find might just have wandered off or got himself killed.
 

3 hours ago, redram said:

I do wish that when you died, it would be daylight when you respawn. 

Understandable, but that would also fast forward time and make your crops etc. grow faster, that could be heavily abused. Hm perhaps the player could emit light on his own in the first few minutes of being alive. 

This should also become easier once you can set a spawn point.

3 hours ago, redram said:

As for the berry bushes thing, that's weird - They were solid last I knew.  I usually make my first base out of berry bush walls.  I've been expecting them to be made pass-through, but I was walking on top of them just a couple days ago

They should still be solid
Probably a good idea to make them pass-through though, now as you mention it

 

 

[redram]

1 hour ago, Tyron said:

Probably a good idea to make them pass-through though, now as you mention it

My berry bush fort Noooooooooooooo!

Good point on the spawn reset too.

[DMKW]

Haha I'm sorry guys I didn't mean the PC could walk through berry bushes I just meant the wolves put their heads through them and suffocate.  I wrote that shorty after waking up this morning   I also built my base half out of berry bushes the other half out of sapplings (now trees) as I didn't have any stone at the time.  This is how i found this out.  I built a rectangle out of berry bushes and then, up and out one block, a bigger rectangle of what little dirt I had.  So I cold use the berry bush as a step onto the dirt and smack Drifters.  Wolves I couldn't reach but noticed that they suffocate and I can gather their drops without even leaving my house lol

@Tryon

Good to know they don't despawn.  That will stop me from just running back out without first creating a weapon, to get my inventory.  Its possible I just couldn't find the spot I was killed.  Or yeah maybe it ran off.  It was at least a days walk.  Just wanted a friggin blueberry bush to complete my collection and I remembered seeing some out that way lol.  Oh well.

[Saraty]

Lovely suggestions @DMKW! I can only agree to them. 

We have big plans when it comes to maps. Unfortunately not for closest future though because it requires a lot of programming for animal AI and proper hitbox detection (and hundred other things...o.o ). The idea is that player does map marking 'automatically' and this way, very dangerous areas like animal territories, can be seen before getting yourself into trouble. ^^ Wolfs are territorial animals so they would attack in packs (in singles too if very hungry) if player wanders nearby. A map would give player an opportunity to prepare himself to face the pack of wolfs or maybe grizzly bears, who knows...

 

On 10/30/2017 at 1:19 PM, DMKW said:

The art style in this game is absolutely spot on IMO.  It would have been sad to not see a Saraty version.

Thank You very much!  We are actually 3 people working on player model - @skodone, @Luk and me. 

 

On 10/30/2017 at 1:43 AM, DMKW said:

I'd love to see a character model more in line with all the other things in this game that are simply more detailed than minecraft.

Yes, the player model will be consistent with other mobs and animals. Actually he is already, since we finished the basic model a month ago!
I would love to see clothes, armor, backpacks, tool belts etc as a separate models on the player one day.

[DMKW]

So if the map detects animals will it be an overhead map?  Like visible in the top corner for instance?  Or will it be something that is carried or placeable?  Or a combination?  People (myself included) love our map rooms.  

[Saraty]

6 hours ago, DMKW said:

So if the map detects animals will it be an overhead map?  Like visible in the top corner for instance?  Or will it be something that is carried or placeable?  Or a combination?  People (myself included) love our map rooms.  

Hm, I really liked the maps in "The Long Dark". That's where I got the inspiration on the animal territory thing as well as marked important locations. Not sure just yet how they are going to look like. Hanging them on walls would be a win!  Maybe a feature where player can mark a point and it opens a dialog to write some text like "epic copper vain here!!!! o.o"? 

Also, some thought on marking territories: I think a lot of fun in game comes from the unknown. So perhaps maps should not be overpowered in a way that they tell player everything beforehand? A "danger" spot can mean anything and it is then up to the player to carefully scout it out!

[DMKW]

Yes I agree that not to much information should be shown.  Exploring right now is scary for me because I know there are wolves out there and armour has yet to be implemented.  I hear the growl, my heart skips a beat and I high tail it out of there often without ever even seeing the wolf.  That is pretty fun in itself.  To come across a pack, run away and pin an approxamite location would be fun too.

A pinable map would be perfect I think.  Map rooms look nice but aren't very functional.  As people discover a build new settlements we will want to mark them somehow.  My workaround for this in Minecraft was I'd create a new map on the site I wished to mark and place it on a wall.  It would create a marker on all other maps but could not be labeled and wasn't ideal.  It was more of trick.  A place to pin and type would be perfect.  Not sure how that would work in game.  My guess would we be you activate a square of the map and a grid forms and individual bits could be pinned and labeled.  Or as I mentioned above you could have craftable markers that you physically place in game that you can lable and it updates the map automatically.  

[DMKW]

I wouldn't mind it if my plants could be clustered into a block.  I'm thinking I could open the crafting menu and put an onion in every square, maybe string in the middle square and it would create a bundle.  This bundle of onions could be hung from a solid block.  This would allow kitchens, pantries and markets full of hanging produce and herbs.   Add that to live animals in the Up coming animal cages and it would really add to the atmosphere.

I wouldn't mind a double fire pit.  It's a small thing but right now firepits are one block.  If I wanted to create a slightly larger fireplace like what you might find in a great hall, I would have to put 2 pits beside each other.  Maybe like Minecrafts double chests, once a second pit is added to another pit they connect to form one big pit.  

I wish lanterns (or some alternative) could be hung from the bottom of blocks as well as mounted to their sides.  This would allow to have lanterns hung from chains or ropes or fenceposts if the others don't become a thing.  Also chandeliers.

This brings me to vertical, horizontal and diagonal ropes and chains.  For railings, hanging lights and cages, drawbridges etc.  Not sure how it would work if drawbridges can be raised and lowered with upcoming mechanical update though.  If the update allows for connected blocks to be rotated.

A stair rail would be nice.  Stairs look pretty plain as they stand now.  It would attach to the side of the block like the ladder does now.

It would be amazing to be able to attach slabs of different blocks together.  Say a cobble slab with an oak slab on top.  Within the same whole block i mean.  Might be a lot of work though.  Would be amazing for roofs, and might give us the ability to build quoins for buildings.  Unless quoin blocks become their own thing some day.  

Armour mannequins.  I imagine these are planned for the future but with the prospect of a new PC body I'm really excited about armour and the ability to display it.  A mannequin head would be nice too.  For unique helmets or hats in clothing shops.  

Moonshots:

Vertical rails.  I know rails will be added eventually.  Would love to see vertical rails some day.  Would allow for mines with big verticle shafts down to bedrock with minecarts ascending and descending them.  Give an alternative option to the typical long stair.  Would look pretty cool too.  Could be used as an elevator as well.

Taxidermy, or maybe just mounted creature heads or appendages.  Especially or at least for boss trophies. 

Hanging caged skeletons, hanging bodies and heads on spikes for dungeons bandit camps and nevromancer layers?  Or is that to dark for this game?

Rare magical items uncraftable and only found in dungeons chests.  Like a bag of holding type item similar to a ender chest or a pixie or glowing ball that ilumintes your surroundings.  An ancient water breathing helmet or lava walking boots.  I think we can all admit that dungeon chests aren't very exciting in Minecraft.  Legendary items could be not only useful bit nice display items in home when not used.  

That's all for now I guess.  

 

 

[redram]

Lot of fun atmospheric ideas here!

 

1 hour ago, DMKW said:

I wish lanterns (or some alternative) could be hung from the bottom of blocks as well as mounted to their sides. 

They can already be hung.  Not sure about side mounting - never tried. 

[Saraty]

On 11/14/2017 at 3:14 PM, DMKW said:

Hanging caged skeletons, hanging bodies and heads on spikes for dungeons bandit camps and nevromancer layers?  Or is that to dark for this game?

Hanging caged animal skeletons would fit to the underlying story, whereas the other two might not. Unless maybe in very, very rare occasions, if not too graphic (texture-wise).

On 11/14/2017 at 3:14 PM, DMKW said:

Rare magical items uncraftable and only found in dungeons chests.

Uncraftable items - definitely! Haha, an ancient water breathing helmet has been on my list for a while now, in all seriousness!!! 
Few non-magical items already exist in underground dungeons; you can find an aged version of a bed, table and chair as well as old wood planks. I plan to add few more in future. 

On 11/14/2017 at 3:14 PM, DMKW said:

I wish lanterns (or some alternative) could be hung from the bottom of blocks as well as mounted to their sides.  This would allow to have lanterns hung from chains or ropes or fenceposts if the others don't become a thing.  Also chandeliers.

Lanterns can be attached to the solid walls from all sides, but unfortunately, not yet to the fence posts. We plan to add it someday though!

On 11/14/2017 at 3:14 PM, DMKW said:

I wouldn't mind it if my plants could be clustered into a block.  I'm thinking I could open the crafting menu and put an onion in every square, maybe string in the middle square and it would create a bundle.  This bundle of onions could be hung from a solid block.  This would allow kitchens, pantries and markets full of hanging produce and herbs.   Add that to live animals in the Up coming animal cages and it would really add to the atmosphere.

Yes, brilliant idea. Textures for various bundles of herbs already exist, waiting to be implemented <3

[DMKW]

Came up with a new idea in one of Redrams threads.  This is path markers.  Craftable markers that can be placed in game to guide something.  I remember playing around with the ship (airship?) mod for MC.  You'd have a main block to start and you'd attach blocks within a certain perimeter of that block and when you were done it would save as one fully movable vessel.  This allowed you to create multiblock ships and boats.  A path block would give this ship a route of travel.  It could be used for transport of goods from port to port if it started with a shipping block and ended with a receiving block.   This could load a ship at one port and unload a ship at another port like a hopper and dropper style block.  The patch blocks or objects could set the path the ship would travel.  This could even just be used for atmosphere as you'd be able to create large multiblock ships and just have them move from port to port giving you the illusion of ships crossing the oceans and barges travelling up and down river.  It could even be created automatically in world gen if ambitious to accompany villages.  The best environments are the ones that have lots of movement in the background.  Of course a lot of this only works with improvement to the generation of rivers actually leading to oceans, lakes and other rivers.