Temporal Gears

[ChubbyDemon]

This isn't exactly a serious discussion, since it would totally destroy game balance if implemented, but temporal gear mechanical generators would be fun.

[ChubbyDemon]

20 minutes ago, ChubbyDemon said:

This isn't exactly a serious discussion, since it would totally destroy game balance if implemented, but temporal gear mechanical generators would be fun.

For context, this idea comes from the fact that the temporal gear's tooltip says it "spins with a constant amount of inertia, even when held", yet our commoner cant figure out how to use an eternally spinning gear as an eternally spinning gear.  Any implementation of this would probably be horribly unbalanced, and the only way I can see it being even slightly acceptable is if it's super expensive.  Like, whatever lets you do it requires stainless steel plates and platinum, and the insertion of a temporal gear blocks any other mechanical power source from interacting with the object, and the temporal gear you insert isn't retrievable.  So not only is in a huge resource sink, but it's almost always slower than wind power, and you're spending a temporal gear for it instead of allocating a temporal gear for it.

Edited September 27, 2023 by ChubbyDemon
Typo

[Maelstrom]

Game breaking would depend on cost to construct generator and probably more importantly, how long does a temporal gear last as fuel.

[Maelstrom]

1 minute ago, ChubbyDemon said:

our commoner cant figure out how to use an eternally spinning gear as an eternally spinning gear. 

Does it spin at a constant speed?  Is the time between changes in speed predictable?  What amount of power does it produce, 0.1 horsepower won't accomplish much. 

Basically: just because it spins eternally doesn't mean it is a useable source of mechanical power.

[ChubbyDemon]

3 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Game breaking would depend on cost to construct generator and probably more importantly, how long does a temporal gear last as fuel.

I'd put making whatever "adapter" lets you connect the temporal gear to a helve hammer/quern/pulverizer would cost something like, 6 stainless steel plates and a couple simple Jonas parts.  That way you need to have had wind power to make the steel, whatever creation process will be added for stainless steel in the future, and have explored deep enough to obtain Jonas parts.  And as for how long it would last, the idea of temporal gears being consumed as duel always felt iffy to me, since if it's limitless rotation, how does it get used up?  For things like the rift ward and nighr vision goggles, I get it's a balancing feature, but for something with drawbacks like the mechanical power, I think it could be infinite torque and last endlessly, but be super slow speed, and it'd need to be limited to only being attached directly onto a machine and would refuse to interact with other axles and gears, so that you can't use a row of large gears to increase the speed as well.  And make it so you can't retrieve the gear.  If you want to take out the temporal gear to let the machine connect to a faster network, the gear shatters and hurts you a little just like when you raise temporal stability with one, so that you really need to decide if you want to spend one.

[ChubbyDemon]

9 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Does it spin at a constant speed?  Is the time between changes in speed predictable?  What amount of power does it produce, 0.1 horsepower won't accomplish much. 

Basically: just because it spins eternally doesn't mean it is a useable source of mechanical power.

For a quern that's true, but pulverizers and helve hammers do their actual work through gravity, the only thing they need power for is to be lifted up so that they can fall back down.  Getting that power really slowly would still make them impact with the same force.

[ChubbyDemon]

12 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Does it spin at a constant speed?  Is the time between changes in speed predictable?  What amount of power does it produce, 0.1 horsepower won't accomplish much. 

Basically: just because it spins eternally doesn't mean it is a useable source of mechanical power.

It spins with a "constant level" of inertia, implying a steady and unchanging speed, and we can see just how slow it turns when we look at the item.

[Thorfinn]

If you look at other uses of the gear they are not very impressive, and shows there is not a lot of energy contained therein. A decent set of Gen 3 goggles can run 40+ hours on 2 AA batteries, though some of the more power-hungry are closer to 8 hours on 4 AAs. Best case, Temporal Gears aren't drastically more powerful than a few AA batteries.  A better interpretation of constant inertia is frictionless, not perpetual energy device.

[ChubbyDemon]

10 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

If you look at other uses of the gear they are not very impressive, and shows there is not a lot of energy contained therein. A decent set of Gen 3 goggles can run 40+ hours on 2 AA batteries, though some of the more power-hungry are closer to 8 hours on 4 AAs. Best case, Temporal Gears aren't drastically more powerful than a few AA batteries.  A better interpretation of constant inertia is frictionless, not perpetual energy device.

Hmm, maybe then instead of making a reusable contraption and permanently installing a temporal gear, the contraption itself could break and need repair upon removal, and would require the big temporal gear from the resonance archives in order to work?  That way the gear would have enough kinetic movement to lift a pulverizer, and you would need to explore and complete the archives before getting use of it, and also have to go and take the gear back out of the pump in order to make use of it.

[Thorfinn]

There needs to be some use for them, and it probably shouldn't be locked away too deep. Something like a brass dowsing rod built with a temporal gear that can detect broken translocators at some limited range? 16? 32? Since it doesn't give you a direction, you would need to burn a second gear to triangulate? Either that or just start digging...

Edited September 27, 2023 by Thorfinn

[Bumber]

1 hour ago, Thorfinn said:

If you look at other uses of the gear they are not very impressive, and shows there is not a lot of energy contained therein. A decent set of Gen 3 goggles can run 40+ hours on 2 AA batteries, though some of the more power-hungry are closer to 8 hours on 4 AAs. Best case, Temporal Gears aren't drastically more powerful than a few AA batteries.  A better interpretation of constant inertia is frictionless, not perpetual energy device.

They're medieval goggles, though, not modern ones. Compare power usage of ENIAC (174,000 watts) versus an iPhone (<1 watt) less than a century later.

The night vision probably works by warping light or viewing an alternate reality, given the use in translocators to open wormholes.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Bumber

[Thorfinn]

I'm getting more of a steampunk vibe...

[Puddy]

In terms of using the gears, the power they generate as mentioned above is probably the key factor.
Probably would pair well with different gear sizes and building translations/transmission where said gear is but a small piece to a bigger picture. I'd see it more for potential to become great than being OP from the start, if done right.

Maybe treat it like a little reward to those that manage to engineer good transmissions or chains to automated machinery. Once again would only work if we'd have various sizes to manage speeds and rpm. (And could alleviate using brakes, for example.)

On 9/27/2023 at 11:51 PM, Thorfinn said:

There needs to be some use for them, and it probably shouldn't be locked away too deep. Something like a brass dowsing rod built with a temporal gear that can detect broken translocators at some limited range? 16? 32? Since it doesn't give you a direction, you would need to burn a second gear to triangulate? Either that or just start digging...

Heh. A "currency" for transolcator detection. Kinda funny but cool. I like that.

[VaelophisNyx]

there is the large temporal gear, which currently lacks a use iirc

could use that

[Khornet]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:59 AM, VaelophisNyx said:

there is the large temporal gear, which currently lacks a use iirc

could use that

It's a 'quest' item used in the Resonance Archives exclusively.

On 9/27/2023 at 8:35 PM, ChubbyDemon said:

This isn't exactly a serious discussion, since it would totally destroy game balance if implemented, but temporal gear mechanical generators would be fun.

Already exists - in creative only: Auto Rotor. You can spawn it in by switching to creative and then back to survival if you REALLY want to.
Adding it to survival by default would be kind of game breaking, even if we lock it behind Jonas parts crafting. With a bit of luck, finding those would be a lot easier than farming the flax needed to craft your first windmill for wind power.

Though I suppose locking it behind electrum/cupronickel would be a more feasible solution...
I imagine we're still waiting for the deeply coveted watermills and steam power before we get to the magiscience temporal stuff.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Khornet

[ChubbyDemon]

On 11/5/2023 at 4:24 AM, Khornet said:

It's a 'quest' item used in the Resonance Archives exclusively.

Already exists - in creative only: Auto Rotor. You can spawn it in by switching to creative and then back to survival if you REALLY want to.
Adding it to survival by default would be kind of game breaking, even if we lock it behind Jonas parts crafting. With a bit of luck, finding those would be a lot easier than farming the flax needed to craft your first windmill for wind power.

Though I suppose locking it behind electrum/cupronickel would be a more feasible solution...
I imagine we're still waiting for the deeply coveted watermills and steam power before we get to the magiscience temporal stuff.

I am aware it is a quest item, that's why in my opinion it would be perfect.  Once you complete the temporal archives, you could have the option to go back down and pull it back out for crafting use.  This would make the archives break down again over time and be unsafe until you come back and replace it.  Depending on how long it's been since you pulled it out, more things can have fallen back into disrepair and need fixing.  And it means you'll only get one of these useful infinite rotation pieces.

Though I did not know about the auto rotor.

[Camilo Rojas]

for balance would make them use components for its structure aswell as coppronikel... and you would need more temporal gears to improve its speed, what are its advantages, each fully upgraded 1 works aswell as 1,5 or 2 full windmills, its speed is stable, but! BUT! they accelerate a lot during temporal storms.

main advantage, no need to build huge structures above ground to get the best speed or depend on wind at all for doing work, downside, you would need several hard to get materials.