Ability to make zinc tools

[Yehomere]

It would make sense to have the ability to make pure zinc tools in place of copper. From what I understand, it has better material properties for a tool than copper does. This would go for nickel too, it would just help when you have an excess of it but not any use for it.

[StCatharines]

Zinc doesn't really work as tools in reality, and it's enough of an edge case in the game I'm not sure there's any real utility to it.

[Wick]

15 hours ago, StCatharines said:

Zinc doesn't really work as tools in reality, and it's enough of an edge case in the game I'm not sure there's any real utility to it.

Whats the point of gold/silver tools then? Both as equally useless in real world. Honestly, I'd like to give zinc more use by simply letting me make more things out of brass. It is already in game, why not use it further? Not necessarily tools but you could do chutes (for aesthetic reasons eg) out of brass.

[Maelstrom]

Should be easy to mod these kinds of changes.

[Yehomere]

On 11/4/2024 at 1:21 PM, StCatharines said:

Zinc doesn't really work as tools in reality, and it's enough of an edge case in the game I'm not sure there's any real utility to it.

Copper is almost the worst thing to make tools out of. I suggested this since I tried both in real life. It is nearly impossible for pure copper to hold an edge or any kind of thin shape, whereas zinc can. It has a higher hardness and toughness to where it can be used in arrowheads and tools. There's a case in the game for it since this game wants to be realistic and already has these metals. There are areas where no copper exists, but plenty of zinc and nickel does. It wouldn't make sense to need to explore the world for an inferior metal to make tools out of.

[StCatharines]

On 11/14/2024 at 9:53 AM, Yehomere said:

Copper is almost the worst thing to make tools out of. I suggested this since I tried both in real life. It is nearly impossible for pure copper to hold an edge or any kind of thin shape, whereas zinc can. It has a higher hardness and toughness to where it can be used in arrowheads and tools. There's a case in the game for it since this game wants to be realistic and already has these metals. There are areas where no copper exists, but plenty of zinc and nickel does. It wouldn't make sense to need to explore the world for an inferior metal to make tools out of.

 

You've managed to do that with pure zinc? I can never get it to stop shattering, where my copper chisels and hammers work very well once I've degassed the molten mix via CuP grains and done the usual work hardening. I'm intrigued!

[LadyWYT]

7 hours ago, StCatharines said:

I can never get it to stop shattering, where my copper chisels and hammers work very well once I've degassed the molten mix via CuP grains and done the usual work hardening.

I'm guessing the ease of smelting and working copper into something usable without shattering it is probably why copper is a prevalent material in early tools and weapons. If zinc shatters that easily, it's not going to make a good weapon or tool.

On 11/5/2024 at 3:48 AM, Wick said:

Whats the point of gold/silver tools then? Both as equally useless in real world.

If you made the functional bits out of gold/silver, then yeah, it's going to be useless aside from being a glorified paperweight. Though if I'm recalling correctly, the gold/silver utensils that we have in-game are steel-based and use the precious metal for decoration. In essence, they're fancy weapons to show that you're rich. I don't recall if they get any damage boost over the standard steel--I think they might have a small boost, which I would chalk up to the weapon being of rather fine quality prior to decorating. After all, if you're going to sink that much expensive material into a status symbol, you're certainly not going to waste it on shoddy work.

On 11/5/2024 at 9:31 AM, Maelstrom said:

Should be easy to mod these kinds of changes.

Agreed. I'm no coder, but I'm guessing all you'd have to do in this case is pretty much copy/paste the code for the copper stuff, and then tweak the values as desired. Well, that, and making new textures for the zinc items.

[ifoz]

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Well, that, and making new textures for the zinc items.

The metal items all use one texture for all tools that is then placed over  the metal segments, so it wouldn't bee too tricky. You could theoretically just hue shift the "base" material in the files to get the right colour!

Edited November 19, 2024 by ifoz

[Yehomere]

19 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I'm guessing the ease of smelting and working copper into something usable without shattering it is probably why copper is a prevalent material in early tools and weapons. If zinc shatters that easily, it's not going to make a good weapon or tool.

Really good point. You know what, that just changed my whole argument. I've only ever cast zinc, where some things would need to be forged.

[Yehomere]

On 11/18/2024 at 1:43 PM, StCatharines said:

 

You've managed to do that with pure zinc? I can never get it to stop shattering, where my copper chisels and hammers work very well once I've degassed the molten mix via CuP grains and done the usual work hardening. I'm intrigued!

Yeah. I haven't had an issue with them shattering. It's possible I had an impurity from my casting process, I should try it again and be more careful.

[LadyWYT]

16 minutes ago, Yehomere said:

Really good point. You know what, that just changed my whole argument. I've only ever cast zinc, where some things would need to be forged.

I forgot to mention last night when I wrote my initial post, but if zinc can be cast like copper and has a comparable(or slightly better) hardness, I could see it being utilized in the game to cast arrowheads, at least. They could do a more damage than copper arrows, but could also have a higher chance to break in return. So it could still be an option in the event you have a lot of zinc that you're not going to use for anything else(and if you don't really care about reusing arrows), but overall copper still remains the more versatile metal.

Plus I mean...arrowhead mold for copper and bronze arrowheads would be nice.

[Yehomere]

6 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I forgot to mention last night when I wrote my initial post, but if zinc can be cast like copper and has a comparable(or slightly better) hardness, I could see it being utilized in the game to cast arrowheads, at least. They could do a more damage than copper arrows, but could also have a higher chance to break in return. So it could still be an option in the event you have a lot of zinc that you're not going to use for anything else(and if you don't really care about reusing arrows), but overall copper still remains the more versatile metal.

Plus I mean...arrowhead mold for copper and bronze arrowheads would be nice.

That's its own suggestion entirely. I need an arrowhead mold so badly. I forged 9 arrowheads once and then never again. I returned with only half of them after one hunting trip, and for 25% more damage per second in a situation where it isn't even time dependent.

[Brady_The]

2 hours ago, Yehomere said:

I need an arrowhead mold so badly.

Mods got you covered.

https://mods.vintagestory.at/ddolds

https://mods.vintagestory.at/justanarrowheadmold

https://mods.vintagestory.at/molds