Vintage Story: Adventure Mode

[Grym7er]

3 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

What about others who develop games using his engine? What terms?

VS Engine is readable open source, which means you can read and use the engine but you can't sell something that you make using it - that is illegal.

Specifically: https://github.com/anegostudios/vsapi?tab=License-1-ov-file#:~:text=Proprietary software owned,your own mod.

[corred]

On 7/6/2025 at 1:38 AM, Toksyuryel said:

I don't think people are acknowledging the exciting new mod potential this is going to open up in the future. Anything the Adventure Mode team wants to do will require support in the engine, which means mods for Vintage Story will be able to make use of it.

I discovered this game after Hytales cancellation, so I was a Hytale fan, and am hopeful for this new gamemode.

 

HOWEVER:

 

I could imagine that further down the line all the new code added to the engine may conflict with Vintage Story systems since the 2 teams are working on separate game modes and aren't anticipating the others systems. If the new engine code is altered by base VS devs to fix this, what if it becomes a confusing mess of engine code from 2 separate teams that halts development for both gamemodes?

 

I am curious what Tyron thinks of this

(I know I sound pessimistic, but I am rooting for the new gamemode. I've been waiting for Hytale so long I'll take anything at this point )

Edited July 7, 2025 by corred

[Voldemort]

15 hours ago, Tyron said:

I am not sure what you mean by that. I said I don't want only leadership to decide, as in, some additions are made by individual team members from their own initiative

well thats not so good to hear  

Edited July 7, 2025 by Adnyeus

[Voldemort]

4 hours ago, Tyron said:

10 hours ago, DudeBroManGuy said:

VS has already been in development for a decade. AAA games are released in roughly half that time. And if your excuse is "well, those studios have 100 people or more," well then HIRE MORE PEOPLE. That's a major part of why people are angry at your decision. You chose to hire people for a side project instead of hire people to work on the game people already paid you to make. And even after all this time vanilla VS is so devoid of features that without the modding community filling in the gaps by making more content than exists within the vanilla game itself then I wouldn't even play the game

What? Where did I write that excuse? 
You have not have paid me to make the game. You have paid to get the game in its current state, exactly as the product page on our shop states. We have defined very clearly what your 20 eur purchase contains.
How someone can claim VS is devoid of features is beyond me. 
There is a reason why there is so many mods, we spend a lot of time to support modding.

 

I think @DudeBroManGuy raised some valid concerns, and I want to add to that.

Saying that the game has a strong modding community is great, but it doesn’t excuse the lack of features in the vanilla version. Relying too much on mods isn't a sustainable development model modders come and go, and many popular mods break or disappear entirely when the game updates. That’s why a lot of people, myself included, choose to stick to vanilla until a game hits a stable, final version. We’re not going to constantly chase updates or rebuild our experience every time the base game changes.

The reality is, you can’t build a long-term game experience on top of mods. Mods should enhance the game, not complete it.

Edited July 7, 2025 by Adnyeus

[corred]

57 minutes ago, Adnyeus said:

I think @DudeBroManGuy raised some valid concerns, and I want to add to that.

Saying that the game has a strong modding community is great, but it doesn’t excuse the lack of features in the vanilla version. Relying too much on mods isn't a sustainable development model modders come and go, and many popular mods break or disappear entirely when the game updates. That’s why a lot of people, myself included, choose to stick to vanilla until a game hits a stable, final version. We’re not going to constantly chase updates or rebuild our experience every time the base game changes.

The reality is, you can’t build a long-term game experience on top of mods. Mods should enhance the game, not complete it.

I think yearly updates seem more suitable for games that are more mod focused. Sure less base content in the short term, but if I was personally a modder, id certainly be more incentivized to make mods if I knew they would be compatible for a longer time.

 

But if Tyron and his team already have a stable workflow with a shorter update cycle, I don't want to interrupt it. Just a proposition if they want to try it.

 

Also can't wait to see anything regarding the new Adventure mode. Concept art, new grass textures, let us know! Thanks!

Edited July 7, 2025 by corred

[Grym7er]

12 minutes ago, Adnyeus said:

Saying that the game has a strong modding community is great, but it doesn’t excuse the lack of features in the vanilla version. Relying too much on mods isn't a sustainable development model modders come and go, and many popular mods break or disappear entirely when the game updates. That’s why a lot of people, myself included, choose to stick to vanilla until a game hits a stable, final version. We’re not going to constantly chase updates or rebuild our experience every time the base game changes.

Have you ever played modded Minecraft before? 

[Khornet]

5 hours ago, Tyron said:

To what game are you comparing us against?
Minecraft is in development for over 15 years already - how is this any different?

I didn't compare VS to anything. Why even mention Minecraft? I think the two games are in entirely different leagues, and the comparisons are fair only for surface-level similarities, or in the context of VS's origins. 
I gave you raw numbers without any further context. VS's first launch was in 2016. That's almost 10 years ago. You are now saying this:

On 7/5/2025 at 1:12 PM, Tyron said:

Lastly, finishing Vintage Story to its full glory would take 10 to 20 years more, if ever.

This brings us to - let's go for the middle ground here - 25 years of estimated total development time. That's a quarter of a century. I don't think I'm alienated by thinking that is a lot of time for one game.

But if you INSIST on bringing Minecraft into it... Minecraft is finished. It's a "complete" experience. It's been one since December 2016 (coincidentally the same year VS "launched"), since the Ender Update, which was formally the 1.0.0 version of Minecraft.

Everything after that is milking profits via content drips by the big M company. I don't think this is worth elaborating upon, as I think you know exactly what I mean and you'd be inclined to agree that including those drips as the "development" time of Minecraft proper is disingenuous.

The first java version of Minecraft came out in 2011, and it was developed for 2 years beforehand. This all adds up to a total of... 7 years. Not 15.

"AHA, GOTCHA, Vintage Story's current build is 1.21, so according to your logic, we are 2 big builds after its formal release already!" 
I know you could say that, but you are damn well aware that is simply not true and just a matter of the naming convention for releases. You already admitted that the game is far from what you'd consider "complete" whereas Minecraft's Ender update literally had... an ending, with credits rolling and everything.
 

5 hours ago, Tyron said:

No I literally wrote that was because I wrote a lot of code there. I won't be writing code on that new project.

And you are also signing off on quality checking the other project on each change as well? Can you honestly promise your playerbase that your attention is going to be undivided between the two?

5 hours ago, Tyron said:

Every major update contains 500 to 1000 individual changes.

Look, I get that it seems that way from your perspective. You see all the guts of the code, all the small fixes and changes, and tweaks, you see the literal hundreds of lines. But the average player doesn't care about "save RAM on both client and server when many entities are spawned (should also slightly improve multiplayer server TPS for spawning times)"
The average player cares about "ADDED BEARS".

So I am adding my voice to those that claim that the "time to new content" ratio is overall skewed towards "time". But I will defend mechanically impressive features like the mount system (elk), or a vehicle system (boats), as justifying that to a certain extent.
 

Edited July 7, 2025 by Khornet

[Grym7er]

23 minutes ago, Khornet said:

there really isn't anything revolutionary being added in the "big" content drops

23 minutes ago, Khornet said:

The average player cares about "ADDED BEARS"

You're contradicting yourself. If you take "added bears" to a game without bears as revolutionary, then:

- 1.20 elk riding system is revolutionary
- 1.20 ship building system is revolutionary
- 1.21pre2 WIP ocean waves sounds revolutionary ( because I haven't checked it out for myself yet, but I am super excited about it)

Updates don't need to be revolutionary. Excellence is not achieved from revolutionary drops. Look at No Mans Sky, look at Minecraft.

Also, if you consider the 2016 version of Minecraft as a "complete" experience, then you should consider VS 1.20 as a "complete" experience as well, because it very much is, by your measurement of "complete". For Tyron, 'complete' seems to mean that he has added all features and functionality that he wants in the game. For you, 'complete' means that there is an end goal with a credits scene. The problem doesn't lie with Anego, the problem lies with your perception of what a complete game entails. If a end credits cutscene played when you defeated the Eidolon, would you be happy? Because that seems to be what you are implying.

 

EDIT: For myself, I am just so glad to have 30 more years of content to look forward to. Infinite replayablility, pretty much the last game I will ever need. For me, VS is already a complete experience, and anything I want to change, I can just do myself.

Edited July 7, 2025 by Grym7er

[Tyron]

2 hours ago, Khornet said:

But if you INSIST on bringing Minecraft into it... Minecraft is finished. It's a "complete" experience. It's been one since December 2016 (coincidentally the same year VS "launched"), since the Ender Update, which was formally the 1.0.0 version of Minecraft.

Minecraft 1.0.0 released in 2011....
It seems the main misunderstanding here what I and you interpret as "Early access" and also what Grym7er wrote

[Khornet]

27 minutes ago, Tyron said:

Minecraft 1.0.0 released in 2011....
It seems the main misunderstanding here what I and you interpret as "Early access" and also what Grym7er wrote

Quote

1.0.0 (displayed as release 1.0 in the launcher), is the second and last release of the Adventure Update, and the first full version of the game, and was released on November 18, 2011,^[1] during MINECON 2011, marking the game as officially released after two and a half years (916 days)^{[note 1]} of development.

Do you see the self-own you've just committed on yourself?
I was being generous by considering the Ender Update for Windows (also labeled 1.0.0 by the way) as Minecraft's "full release" (please note the quotation marks) and you went ahead and said "actually, Minecraft was formally finished in 2011 already". And yes, that is formally correct, The End was added to Minecraft's java edition in 2011 already.

Bringing Minecraft into this wasn't my intention at all, you did that. Impossible to measure "total development time" in different criteria with the same ruler here. Different scopes, different features, different goals, different business models.
So to reiterate - I don't care about Minecraft. I care about Vintage Story. And I am once again voicing my displeasure at the estimated total development time of ~25 years by its main developer. Without any comparisons to any games out there; it just just a fat chunk of time that makes me lose interest and motivation to follow the development of the game at all.

Edited July 7, 2025 by Khornet

[Voldemort]

2 hours ago, Grym7er said:

You're contradicting yourself. If you take "added bears" to a game without bears as revolutionary, then:

- 1.20 elk riding system is revolutionary
- 1.20 ship building system is revolutionary
- 1.21pre2 WIP ocean waves sounds revolutionary ( because I haven't checked it out for myself yet, but I am super excited about it)

Updates don't need to be revolutionary. Excellence is not achieved from revolutionary drops. Look at No Mans Sky, look at Minecraft.

Also, if you consider the 2016 version of Minecraft as a "complete" experience, then you should consider VS 1.20 as a "complete" experience as well, because it very much is, by your measurement of "complete". For Tyron, 'complete' seems to mean that he has added all features and functionality that he wants in the game. For you, 'complete' means that there is an end goal with a credits scene. The problem doesn't lie with Anego, the problem lies with your perception of what a complete game entails. If a end credits cutscene played when you defeated the Eidolon, would you be happy? Because that seems to be what you are implying.

 

EDIT: For myself, I am just so glad to have 30 more years of content to look forward to. Infinite replayablility, pretty much the last game I will ever need. For me, VS is already a complete experience, and anything I want to change, I can just do myself.

1.21 ocean waves?  you need to hop in pre build and tell me if you see it as wave

[Grym7er]

6 minutes ago, Adnyeus said:

1.21 ocean waves?  you need to hop in pre build and tell me if you see it as wave

As I said, I haven't checked it out for myself and I'm not really planning to until 1.21 stable (I use the update notes to generate hype for the full release), but if it is purely a visual effect (like the wavy ocean sands), I don't really care. I'm somewhat aware of the complexities of implementing wave simulations efficiently for these types of games, but I got very excited by the thought of maybe, just maybe, enticing some of my friends away from Valheim so we can have the same sailing experiences in VS.

But alas, if I interpret what you say correctly, it is merely a visual effect, but I'm sure that actual waves is on the "implement if technically possible" list. It would make more sense to release it as part of a more ocean-focused update, though. : )

Edited July 7, 2025 by Grym7er

[Scorpixel]

Disregarding what the side project even is (only even heard about it after it crashed and burned), i have very much negative confidence regarding taking-on a side project while the main one is yet to get a 1.0 (not EA) release.

The Q&A did not reassure me, as i witnessed failures far more than successes from studios/individuals presenting these rebuttals.

No matter how good the game currently is (and good it is, yet a WIP nonetheless), it was purchased by players as a project to be completed, it is not a matter of legality (indie devs can at any time grab the bag and run without any repercussions), but of trust.

Let's take FTL as an example, it was crowdfunded and delivered, after which they made Advanced edition, which they did not have to, and presented their new game Into The Breach, which was also well received.

While i don't think anyone is demanding free updates post completion (most are probably even willing to buy expansions/DLCs afterwards, Rimworld style), the studio was founded around making this game, as were the purchases, any other objective is unrelated to the original transaction until the game is considered complete by the initial roadmap.

After that? I don't think any meaningful amount of players would have any complaints with what is done with the capital and manpower, as it would be considered fully earned with promises having been delivered, which would further encourage spending toward any new project.

[CastIronFabric]

56 minutes ago, Scorpixel said:

Disregarding what the side project even is (only even heard about it after it crashed and burned), i have very much negative confidence regarding taking-on a side project while the main one is yet to get a 1.0 (not EA) release.

The Q&A did not reassure me, as i witnessed failures far more than successes from studios/individuals presenting these rebuttals.

No matter how good the game currently is (and good it is, yet a WIP nonetheless), it was purchased by players as a project to be completed, it is not a matter of legality (indie devs can at any time grab the bag and run without any repercussions), but of trust.

Let's take FTL as an example, it was crowdfunded and delivered, after which they made Advanced edition, which they did not have to, and presented their new game Into The Breach, which was also well received.

While i don't think anyone is demanding free updates post completion (most are probably even willing to buy expansions/DLCs afterwards, Rimworld style), the studio was founded around making this game, as were the purchases, any other objective is unrelated to the original transaction until the game is considered complete by the initial roadmap.

After that? I don't think any meaningful amount of players would have any complaints with what is done with the capital and manpower, as it would be considered fully earned with promises having been delivered, which would further encourage spending toward any new project.

Medieval Engineers.

Same points in both directions where made then, it did not do well.

I am not a fan of this idea but I am also not a business manager at the company, I have zero idea what the accounting is etc. I have no idea if they can do it or not, I am just not interested in this new project idea...full stop.

Edited July 7, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[Facethief]

1 hour ago, Khornet said:

Do you see the self-own you've just committed on yourself?
I was being generous by considering the Ender Update for Windows (also labeled 1.0.0 by the way) as Minecraft's "full release" (please note the quotation marks) and you went ahead and said "actually, Minecraft was formally finished in 2011 already". And yes, that is formally correct, The End was added to Minecraft's java edition in 2011 already.

Ender update was the full release of the versions that were merged into bedrock. Tyron and you are talking about two separate games.

[Sullivan]

Tyron and the team,

Many of us here are believing in you. We see that patches are comming out, new content is comming to us, same as respect to the comunity and transperency. 
Thank you for all your effort. 
Whatever you are making, me and my friends are supporting you and your beginings and will buy any product that will come under your team. 

Cheers mate! Continue to do your best.

[krystalchan]

Honestly, I support the risk. You guys have an active plan going into it that supports the core project with very open and direct testing with the community. I do have hopes in general for the updated AI and combat for the core-VS game. While I agree it isn't focused on flashy combat, this could mean new options for both the players and the hostiles. 

As far as the NPCs getting a bump, maybe some light reputation/faction system where helping them out could give you more lore about the world or ability to request aid.

[Zastier]

6 hours ago, Khornet said:

I didn't compare VS to anything. Why even mention Minecraft? I think the two games are in entirely different leagues, and the comparisons are fair only for surface-level similarities, or in the context of VS's origins. 
I gave you raw numbers without any further context. VS's first launch was in 2016. That's almost 10 years ago. You are now saying this:

This brings us to - let's go for the middle ground here - 25 years of estimated total development time. That's a quarter of a century. I don't think I'm alienated by thinking that is a lot of time for one game.

But if you INSIST on bringing Minecraft into it... Minecraft is finished. It's a "complete" experience. It's been one since December 2016 (coincidentally the same year VS "launched"), since the Ender Update, which was formally the 1.0.0 version of Minecraft.

Everything after that is milking profits via content drips by the big M company. I don't think this is worth elaborating upon, as I think you know exactly what I mean and you'd be inclined to agree that including those drips as the "development" time of Minecraft proper is disingenuous.
 

This is a weird ass comparison because Minecraft at 1.0 had such an insignificant amount of content compared to what either Minecraft, or Vintage Story offer today. The fact that Minecraft had an ending is irrelevant, nobody actually cares about that when evaluating their content. 

Most of the changes done to Minecraft in the past 14 years since it launched were also background engine changes. And yes, the average person won't care about "low level optimization" lines in the changelog, but they will care if the game suddenly releases a huge update and all of a sudden the game stops running well because the background engine work needed to keep expanding wasn't done. Both Vintage Story and Minecraft run into the exact same issue, mods are cool, but if you add too much content through mods, the game performance suffers immensely. This issue exists in basically every single game like this, Starbound suffers from it, as does No Man's Sky (which needed several updates purely focused on the engine to fix the numerous rendering and loading issues that game had). And if those issues are a dealbreaker for you, probably shouldn't have bought the game, they are very open about this fact on the website.  

[DessertOverlord]

So let me get this straight: We don't hear a PEEP out of anyone when Tyron works on a different side project (i.e., VintageHosting, as he points out), but when it's a different side-project, suddenly "my money didn't pay for that" or "feature creep!" I also never asked for story content when I bought the game pre-fruit trees, but here it is and I think it is awesome!

To Tyron's point, you spent your money to buy the game in the state it was in at that time. Yes the game is in development, but if you spent money and got your copy of the game when you spent the money, then your transaction is fulfilled.

I didn't spend my money on Minecraft for Bedrock edition. Certainly some part of my purchase helped fund that project. But I don't care, because I put in 30 bucks and got out Java edition in 1.4.7, which was worth it to me.

tl;dr: get outraged when something actually sucks and not because you don't want to play what is essentially another mode, which Tyron says will not conflict with development of the main game. Yes it is going to cost Anego money, but it seems they've been pretty successful at managing their funds thus far. I don't think any of us here are qualified to be armchair accountants or CEOs when we don't have a damn clue what Anego's financial or managerial situation is.

[Chalky]

Further development on Vintage story has been cancelled in favor of a second hytale abortion. Pack it up lads.

[Enjen]

Tyron, I and many others believe in your capabilities as a CEO of your company. We believe in the abilities of your team at Anego Studios. If you've got a vision, I don't think anything should hold you back, especially if you've got a plan in place.

[Echo Weaver]

Tyron answered most of the concerns here, and they focus on the same sorts of concerns I see in other video game forums.

Software development is not as linear as some folks assume. You don't get better quality or faster features if you completely finish one thing before starting another. Some parallelism is much more effective. Moreover, fixing all the bugs in software of any size is literally impossible. Bug fixes, enhancements, new features, and experimental projects pretty much all have to run in parallel. That's just how software engineering works.

Tyron has already described how the current team structure is bottlenecked by the guardians of consistency. Adding more developers is not going to make development of VS faster. A AAA game studio has to break development up into many more pieces that can run in parallel semi-autonomously. That brings its own risks, and Anego has already decided against those risks. One may not agree with that decision, but it's a valid one, and that's how it's going to be.

Moreover, every game studio pays for new projects with the proceeds of the old ones, so I don't see how "Vintage Story dollars" even makes sense. It sounds like early features might be released in a Vintage Story game mode as more of an open alpha. That should give Tyron and co. enough information to decide whether the project is better as a VS game mode or a separate game entirely using the same engine, and they'll change direction appropriately.

I view VS as more a subscription game without the, um, subscription. Chapters drop over time, and we expect to play each one and explore it before the next one drops.

[Oto Nokyo]

2 hours ago, Echo Weaver said:

I view VS as more a subscription game without the, um, subscription. Chapters drop over time, and we expect to play each one and explore it before the next one drops.

Tyron basically told us in this thread that everything on the roadmap, including the next chapters in the game, may never exist. If it's on the roadmap it's not promised so it's not a roadmap at all. Just a pipedream of potential possibilities. 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2025 by Oto Nokyo

[dakko]

[delete]

Nevermind.. I'm getting too annoyed by the antagonistic comments. The whole tone here has become like the Steam forums.

Edited July 7, 2025 by dakko

[Maelstrom]

9 minutes ago, Oto Nokyo said:

Tyron basically told us in this thread that everything on the roadmap, including the next chapters in the game, may never exist. If it's on the roadmap it's not promised so it's not a roadmap at all. Just a pipedream of potential possibilities. 

Holy jumping to conclusions Batman!!!

At one time in the past the roadmap had Alchemy.  It no longer is on the roadmap being replaced by "Herbalism / Brewing system".   The roadmap is a reflection of the current vision the dev team has for the finished product.  Because the project is so ambitious taking a lot of time to complete and the vision of the devs may evolve over time the communicaiton of that vision expressed on the roadmap can, AND WILL change.  What about early access do you not get?  SMH