Hunting and Trapping

[Thalius]

Greetings all!

I am starting this thread because I did not see this topic addressed directly in the forum elsewhere.  If it is and I missed it, sorry for the redundancy!

I understand that there will be at least two methods for catching and/or harvesting animals- using devices for trapping and developing tools for hunting.  Both will be necessary because, unlike in Minecraft, animals will be much more difficult to hunt.. (YEAH!!! )

I wanted to create a topic in the forum for a discussion around this part in the game.

I have several thoughts and questions I will pose when I have time, but only sharing a few for the moment that I had after chatting briefly on this subject in the chat forum earlier today.

I would like to see animals yield more than just meat and hides for eating and clothing.  Bones were an early source for things like needles, tips for arrows and spears, bone knives, horns, etc. 

Tanned hide can be used for clothes, but also was a source for making stronger rope.  Sheep's wool is useful for all sorts of things that I don't need to mention, but wool makes string,  A lot of string can be used to make wool rope, I assume, but I have never heard of wool being used for that.  It does not seem to me that rope should come from wool.  String for various things yes, but not for rope.

Cleaning a larger animal correctly also provided sinew, very useful for making bow strings and for use in traps that required small diameter but strong chords.  Woolen string might be ok for use in a weak bow, (maybe) but could not hold up to the strain of a large, strong hunting bow.

Meat is meat, useful for eating and for bait in traps- all which does not need to be elaborated on.  It is good to know that larger animals will produce meat in proportion with their size- you can eat on a dear, bear or wild boar for a LONG time on your own.  I understand a method for smoking meat as a means of preserving is in the future?  Hopefully the challenge of successfully taking a large animal will provide enough meat that you can forget about hunting for a while to focus on other aspects of the game?  Hunting, I feel, should not be something I have to think about doing every day, unless I am close to being out of food and traps and game have been elusive and my food is running short...

Trapping younger animals and domesticating them has all kinds of possibilities.  Harvesting them provides all of the above, and I would assume manure for fertilizer in the farm?  And so that a player does not get to secure in his husbandry skills that he grows lazy, I would assume predators seeking an easy meal would be a threat to the livestock in the nighttime hours?  Waking to have to deal with a ravenous bear tearing into your chickens or your sheep pen would provide the occasional unexpected and undesired encounter with a dangerous natural threat.

Just some initial thoughts...

[Saraty]

This topic comes right in time! Thank You for writing down ideas - they all seem very practical and engaging.  

I am very excited to start modeling and texturing my very first animal mob - feral chicken. Rooster and chicks will follow. They will be source of eggs, meat, feathers and bones. A small animal carriage could be potentially used to trap chickens which would otherwise run away from player.

2 hours ago, Thalius said:

Hopefully the challenge of successfully taking a large animal will provide enough meat that you can forget about hunting for a while to focus on other aspects of the game?

Definitely! Large / aggressive animals would involve deadly risks in taking them down, so reward for that should be appropriate. 

2 hours ago, Thalius said:

I understand a method for smoking meat as a means of preserving is in the future?

Yes. We intend to make a "drying rack" (inspired by Don't Starve) where fish and meat can be smoked, dried and preserved.

2 hours ago, Thalius said:

Bones were an early source for things like needles, tips for arrows and spears, bone knives, horns, etc. 

Bone could indeed become a potential alternative solution for flint. So far we only thought of bones being ingredient for fertilizer, used in preparing "Terra Preta" soil. 

2 hours ago, Thalius said:

Harvesting them provides all of the above, and I would assume manure for fertilizer in the farm?

Why not!

2 hours ago, Thalius said:

And so that a player does not get to secure in his husbandry skills that he grows lazy, I would assume predators seeking an easy meal would be a threat to the livestock in the nighttime hours?

Absolutely! Foxes could snatch away chickens even during day time, wild wolfs could be a threat to domestic sheep, goats even calf etc etc. Maybe player needs dogs to protect the livestock? Not to mention that each animal could have its own unique characteristics (instinct), based on how fearful / bold / aggressive he is. That would determine how an animal would act in given situation.

[Thalius]

Last thing that came up in the chat forum was the issue regarding the need for bows to be more of a challenge to create, at least a good hunting bow. 

The idea was a weaker bow could be used for small game, such as rabbits and wild chickens and such.  A bow worthy of taking big game is a much harder thing to come up with. 

Sinew harvested from a larger animal would provide the needed resource, and a challenge to get if hunting is difficult.  Traps for large animals would provide your first kill or two, and sinew from one or two large animals would open the door for a good hunting bow after that.  Taking your first large game animal would (and should, I would think) be a milestone.

However, instead of creating two bows- a weak one for small game and a larger one for more serious prey, could I suggest skipping the weak bow altogether and allow for a sling?  Trap a rabbit, smoke the hide, and use the leather to make a sling for small game.  Ammo is plentiful, and a sling would serve well for rabbits and wild chickens and other small game animals early on in the game, and for the occasional drifter or other creepy crawler for that matter. 

I doubt a sling would do much damage against a drifter or other such larger enemy, but it is better than your bare hands and would soften the target up from a distance before engaging with a flint knife.

A stray secondary thought on the issue of hunting, especially with a bow...

Is camouflage in the picture?  Hard to sneak up on an animal in armor.  Leather armor over-layed with camo characteristics would be needed.  Makes hunting a bit more risky since you  have to lay aside your armor to sneak up on your prey.  Pray the darkness does not find you lost in the woods on your hunting trip as the sun sets...

[Saraty]

 

Still in the very beginning of learning how to texture and model an animal. Much harder then initially thought.  
The chicken is probably ok for very first milestone, but once I practiced enough, I can improve the texture as well as model. I would like to get at least few more color variations done before moving on to rooster.

 

22 hours ago, Thalius said:

However, instead of creating two bows- a weak one for small game and a larger one for more serious prey, could I suggest skipping the weak bow altogether and allow for a sling?

We could indeed skip beginners bow, since one could just pick up a rock and throw it.
But our initial idea did contain bow progression in a bit different way - normal bow, where arrow heads could be upgraded with higher tier metal (therefore do more damage) and much later in the game potential crossbow, tinkered together from mechanical parts. That "normal" bow could be only one until mechanics take place, acquired the way You described (with sinew after taking down large and dangerous animal).

22 hours ago, Thalius said:

Is camouflage in the picture?

It wasn't up until now. I like when there is possibility for evaluating risk of wearing low gear vs benefit of not getting noticed.

[Thalius]

A bow is a bow, and while better bows can shoot faster and farther and with better accuracy, they are, in the end, only as lethal as the projectile they are throwing.  I definitely see a need for the arrows to progress- especially with smithing and metalwork being such a big part in the game.  Better metals mean opportunities for stronger, thinner, sharper arrow heads, thus more lethal and with greater range than say, a heavy flint arrow head that only has two stone cutting edges. 

Sinew provides a better string material capable of holding up to heavier draw weights.  Not sure how far the game will run with this, but adding a density characteristic to different types of woods would make some trees yield materials that would be better suited in the crafting of stronger bows.

That kind of hints at a whole different discussion on trees and wood materials in the game...  A topic for another post.  I know smithing and forging are the priorities at the moment.

 

 

[Thalius]

I like the chicken by the way... Looking forward to seeing them in-game!

[Saraty]

Oh, You can certainly expect trees to have different densities just like it used to be in VintageCtraft! There will be a whole bunch of implications for example: longer / shorter burning times, certain craftable items etc. Bow could also be crafted only from wood which reaches the a certain density to avoid having rather useless "beginners bow". Currently we plan to add one more very rare tree "Giraffe Thorn" (Vachellia erioloba) which can only be found in very hot, arid areas. Besides its excellent properties as a hard wood it is also very dark in appearance and would provide good contrast when used for building.

Also, I'm very glad You like the idea of progression in metal for arrows!  There will be uranium added, which has radioactive properties. It could introduce some more interesting consequences when shot into mob / hostile creatures as well as when carried around by player.

[Thalius]

Fantastic!  Glad to hear that is in the plans!

[Theunknownspecimen]

21 hours ago, Saraty said:

The chicken is probably ok for very first milestone, but once I practiced enough, I can improve the texture as well as model.

What do you mean the chicken is ok, it is far better than anything I can do.

And it looks wonderful

[Saraty]

2 hours ago, Theunknownspecimen said:

What do you mean the chicken is ok, it is far better than anything I can do.

And it looks wonderful

aw, that's really kind of You! ^_^; Thanks a lot!

[redram]

It really is an excellent chicken Saraty   My only question would be, is it going to be animated top peck at the ground, and is the neck long enough?  Might want to shorten the legs if necessary.

[Saraty]

1 hour ago, redram said:

It really is an excellent chicken Saraty   My only question would be, is it going to be animated top peck at the ground, and is the neck long enough?  Might want to shorten the legs if necessary.

Thank You very much!  If I'll be able to manage animations then walking, lying down and peck at the ground would be first three to add. Neck alone probably wont be enough to reach the ground, but if I rotate the whole body slightly downwards it should work. Shorter legs is also an option!

[Thalius]

A thought on the chickens...

I naturally assume that feathers will be a resource that they give, for making arrows and other items of usefulness?  May I suggest that a chicken gives a good amount of feathers?  Please?!?  A personal, serious irritation that I have with Minecraft is that chickens only drop one or two feathers, and sometimes none!  Makes no sense whatsoever!  I understand making arrows a bit more difficult to craft, but, if you want them to be difficult to craft, make the arrow shafts difficult to acquire- require a certain grade density of wood, maybe a specific tree or two that is suitable for crafting arrows due to straight grain and high density characteristics, and make the shafts craftable with only that wood type.  Feathers should not be the problem though!  Shafts and arrow heads should be the harder part to come up with, not feathers for fletching.

 

Just my opinion...

[Saraty]

58 minutes ago, Thalius said:

May I suggest that a chicken gives a good amount of feathers? 

What amount exactly are You looking for?

[Thalius]

If we are talking three feathers per arrow (and if we are aiming at realism) then we are talking 15-25 per chicken. 

The other game gave maybe one feather, and you could craft 4 arrows from it.  If those arrows could be retrieved it would not have been such a big deal, but if you hit your target then the arrows were gone.  I enjoyed archery and hunting when I used to have the time- most of the time the arrow could be retrieved, even with a hit.  Actually, most of the arrows that were lost where lost when you missed! 

Realistically you should be able to craft a set of arrows from one properly harvested chicken, with feathers left over.  A set being 6-10.  A quiver should be required, and a limited amount of arrows permitted in it at one time.  A 14th century leather quiver could hold what, maybe 15-20 arrows?  When you ran out of them, and you should, then it is time to whip out the sword or other weapon of choice and finish off your enemies, hoping you can retrieve the fired arrows once you have vanquished your foe.

How many you can craft would not be as big an issue if there was a reasonably good chance that you can retrieve arrows that were fired.  Perhaps arrows fired have a % chance of being damaged/lost. Your chance of losing one due to breakage decreases with better materials, and your chance of losing one increases with a miss on your target.  Arrows fired at a hay bale practice target have a 100% chance of not being lost or damaged, as long as you hit it, thus you would have something safe to practice on, and practice would be important.

Accuracy would matter in the game if you want to hold on to your arrows, especially if you have invested much time gathering materials for good ones.

However many feathers a chicken yields, they should always yield some, unless dropped into a fire or lava. If you want to keep feathers less numerable so that there is not a glut of feathers in the players inventory, I understand.  It would help if the arrows you do craft were retrievable as mentioned above. 

When it comes time for crafting a new set though, feathers should not be the difficult thing to acquire.

[Tyron]

There's a problem with that though, how do you prevent players from crafting a gazillion arrows because the resources are so abundant?

[Saraty]

1 hour ago, Tyron said:

There's a problem with that though, how do you prevent players from crafting a gazillion arrows because the resources are so abundant?

Making arrows craftable only from rare (hardwood) tree and arrowheads from metal.

[Thalius]

What Saratoga said. ?

Flint would do for arrow heads in the beginning of arrow crafting.  They should do less damage, especially against armor, and would have accuracy issues over long distances.  The uniformity and perfection achievable in crafting metal arrow heads would greatly improve the accuracy of the arrow.

 

The hardest part in crafting wooden arrows is the wood for the shafts- needs to be perfectly straight, and strong enough to withstand the shock of the bow when launched, but still light enough to travel long distances.  Not an easy combination of charecteristics to achieve in wood.

 

Inferior wood should be available, but for weaker bows and with less accuracy.

[Saraty]

On 4/12/2017 at 2:40 PM, redram said:

My only question would be, is it going to be animated top peck at the ground, and is the neck long enough?  Might want to shorten the legs if necessary.

Here is the very first simple pecking animation Tyron made today ^^

[redram]

very nice!

[Jdbener]

 

On 4/18/2017 at 2:52 AM, Saraty said:

Here is the very first simple pecking animation Tyron made today ^^

 

It's quite pecky!