1.22.0-pre.1 - Fishing, Mechanisms, Metalworking and More!

[LadyWYT]

27 minutes ago, MKMoose said:

If reforging or recasting is the goal, then I would at the very least look into allowing to break down all metal items into bits before they break and getting variable reward depending on durability, so that the player doesn't feel forced to use them up entirely in order to then reprocess.

I'd be okay with this kind of change. It'd be even less hassle than trying to carry a fresh tool into the field for when the old one inevitably breaks. I think it's also a more immersive way to go about repairing a tool as well. Better to break the old down and forge anew, than to try to patch together something that's wearing out.

[Facethief]

If at all possible, I feel like redressing tools would be an interesting (if somewhat more tedious) way of repairing tools. Tool gets de-hafted (is that a word?) and then gets heated up in the forge, gets some pieces of metal added (bits/nails and strips) and is then built back up to having a solid edge/point.

I’m not really sure if the redressing process should involve the tool head being turned into a workpiece again, as that would make it so that it keeps basically none of the old tool’s stats unless they were tracked, but it should certainly affect the previous tempering and hardening of the tool.

[ifoz]

So, the website lagged, and I now have a bunch of duplicate posts I can't remember how to delete. Ignore these ones! 

Edited February 11 by ifoz

[ifoz]

5 hours ago, MKMoose said:

One thing that was really annoying me when I tried Hytale was that swinging a weapon would destroy plants and some clutter, which meant a whole bunch of items dropping onto the ground. So I would go somewhere to do something, and while fighting three monsters or animals on the way I would inadvertently collect 3x grass, 1x stick, 2x purple petals, 1x yellow petals, 1x stone rubble and 3x green moss. It was genuinely infuriating after the 10th or 20th time.

It's good to hear I'm not the only one!
I ended up just carrying 1x plant fibre, 1x stick and 1x tree sap while adventuring just so those items could stack to a slot in my inventory and not go into my hotbar, which was a waste of three inventory slots. It didn't help that chopping a single tree netted you about ~40 sticks, meaning they'd quickly hit that stack limit of 99 and start another stack.

VS does it pretty well, though I can't really pinpoint exactly one reason why. Ground storage definitely helps though, if I break a cracked vessel and get ore nuggets I don't want to use, I can just pile them on the ground without feeling bad I'm permanently throwing away resources. Same for breaking tool vessels and getting flint tools.

Edited February 11 by ifoz

[ifoz]

This one was a duplicate too!

Edited February 11 by ifoz

[ifoz]

...And this one!

Edited February 11 by ifoz

[Chuckerton]

14 hours ago, TFT said:

The bowl is too hot so you burn yourself and take damage holding it, but as long as you have some tongs you can eat boiling hot food no problem.
Makes sense to me.

and not to mention even if you do fill a bowl of super hot food, the entire bowl isnt going to be scorching hot. When i put hot soup in a bowl i dont hold it by the bottom where all the hot food is, i hold it at the rim where the hot food isnt. You need two hands to carry it sure but i dont have to bring out tongs to carry my bowl back to my table before scalding my mouth with it.

I feel like "your bowl of food is too hot to hold" is in that realm of unfun realism. Its not gritty and hardcore its just annoying. 

[freelikegnu]

2 minutes ago, Chuckerton said:

I feel like "your bowl of food is too hot to hold" is in that realm of unfun realism. Its not gritty and hardcore its just annoying. 

I have to agree.  While it make make sense that the cooking pot could be too hot to handle, a bowl of food from that pot should not be that dangerous if only for the sake of fun. Please adjust this.  

[TeaJay]

7 hours ago, Chuckerton said:

I feel like "your bowl of food is too hot to hold" is in that realm of unfun realism. Its not gritty and hardcore its just annoying. 

This 100%. 

[Maelstrom]

14 hours ago, ifoz said:

This one was a duplicate too!

Did you not watch Multiplicity which documents one of the major problems of cloning?

 

Edited February 12 by Maelstrom

[CastIronFabric]

6 hours ago, TeaJay said:

This 100%. 

personally I disagree. 

I am a bit surprised at how so much attention are being paid to small changes and not much attention paid to the very large changes to smithing and windmills. Those two things will have a much larger impact on game play

[TeaJay]

Because something like eating food will impact a lot more people and way earlier in the game than smithing, let alone windmills. I'm focusing my bug reports mostly on early game experience. 

[CastIronFabric]

4 minutes ago, TeaJay said:

Because something like eating food will impact a lot more people and way earlier in the game than smithing, let alone windmills. I'm focusing my bug reports mostly on early game experience. 

Keep in mind, I think Bronze can not be forged without a bellows and that requires either killing a bear or 6 leather and 3 nails and strips.

The only people that will not impact is people on multiplayer servers who are not smilthing. While eating hot food (which by the way is not all the time only about 1/3 of the time, is literally about a 2 click difference

BY THE WAY. once you cook a meal, if you take a rock and click it without removing the pot you never have to use tongs

 

Edited February 12 by CastIronFabric

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

I am a bit surprised at how so much attention are being paid to small changes and not much attention paid to the very large changes to smithing and windmills. Those two things will have a much larger impact on game play

I'm guessing it might be due to smithing and watermills have issues in 1.22-pre1. Some of the issues were fixed in 1.22-pre2 so those systems are a lot more playable now, but there's still some hiccups, I think. 1.22-pre2 also didn't have an obvious news notification, so some players aren't aware that it's available in the download.

That's just a guess though. When it comes to "small" changes, like the bowls of food being too hot to hold, I don't think those were intended changes, but they're definitely going to be easily noticeable because cookware can be obtained within the first day or two, and most players likely eat a portion of the food as soon as it's done cooking(or otherwise try to move the cookpot). Regarding spears, the increased charge time is a pretty big change, since it stops players from rapid-firing spears at targets(and I'm pretty sure that was a feature most players took advantage of in previous versions). 

Just now, CastIronFabric said:

Keep in mind, I think Bronze can not be forged without a bellows and that requires either killing a bear or 6 leather and 3 nails and strips.

Good to know since I'm about to be at bronze in my world. If the bellows really are needed to work bronze at the forge, that seems a pretty good change to smooth out the early progression a bit more. I don't mind quick progress being an option, provided the player has the knowledge and skill required for that kind of progression speed, but I also agree at least partly with some of the posts I've seen about the early game tech levels not really feeling impactful. 

[CastIronFabric]

25 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

I'm guessing it might be due to smithing and watermills have issues in 1.22-pre1. Some of the issues were fixed in 1.22-pre2 so those systems are a lot more playable now, but there's still some hiccups, I think. 1.22-pre2 also didn't have an obvious news notification, so some players aren't aware that it's available in the download.

That's just a guess though. When it comes to "small" changes, like the bowls of food being too hot to hold, I don't think those were intended changes, but they're definitely going to be easily noticeable because cookware can be obtained within the first day or two, and most players likely eat a portion of the food as soon as it's done cooking(or otherwise try to move the cookpot). Regarding spears, the increased charge time is a pretty big change, since it stops players from rapid-firing spears at targets(and I'm pretty sure that was a feature most players took advantage of in previous versions). 

Good to know since I'm about to be at bronze in my world. If the bellows really are needed to work bronze at the forge, that seems a pretty good change to smooth out the early progression a bit more. I don't mind quick progress being an option, provided the player has the knowledge and skill required for that kind of progression speed, but I also agree at least partly with some of the posts I've seen about the early game tech levels not really feeling impactful. 

I am not 100% sure though because if you click on the bronze ingot in the handbook it crashes the game.

Also, how about rendering fat? I think rendering fat is a much larger change than hot meals

[TeaJay]

47 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

BY THE WAY. once you cook a meal, if you take a rock and click it without removing the pot you never have to use tongs

 

Click the pot with a rock? What?

[CastIronFabric]

18 minutes ago, TeaJay said:

Click the pot with a rock? What?

oops. 

click the cooking pot with a crockpot while keeping the cooking pot in the fire.

It instantly moves to food to the crockpot and the crockpot itself does not have a temperature, I am not sure if the food inside is still super hot or not but it cools down rather quickly anyway.

I think making rendered fat is a bigger deal. If you want fat, you can not use the fat from the animals directly, you have to cook it first, let it cool down for about 5 in game hours, then put it in a bucket and dump it on the ground.

Edited February 12 by CastIronFabric

[MKMoose]

1 hour ago, LadyWYT said:

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

Keep in mind, I think Bronze can not be forged without a bellows and that requires either killing a bear or 6 leather and 3 nails and strips.

Good to know since I'm about to be at bronze in my world. If the bellows really are needed to work bronze at the forge, that seems a pretty good change to smooth out the early progression a bit more. I don't mind quick progress being an option, provided the player has the knowledge and skill required for that kind of progression speed, but I also agree at least partly with some of the posts I've seen about the early game tech levels not really feeling impactful. 

Bismuth/tin//black bronze requires the metal to be at a temperature of at least 425/475/510 C for forging (nothing has changed since 1.21 in this regard). The forge can normally go up to 700 C, so bronze doesn't currently require bellows at any point.

Spoiler just in case you want to mess with the mechanics further by yourself first:

Spoiler

The forge's maximum temperature also gets reduced by 100 C when using brown coal or increased by 50/100 C when using charcoal/coke.

Bellows increase the forge temperature above the default maximum over a couple seconds after they are blown at a practically insignificant cost to fuel duration, and they allow to pretty easily reach up to ~1.5x the maximum temperature (including the temperature gain from fuel), enough to work and quench iron and steel using brown coal with no issues. Interestingly, there seems to currently be no functional distinction between the different types of bellows, though I'd assume that should change, since it's ultimately a work-in-progress system at the moment.

Bellows aren't strictly required for anything besides quenching as far as I can tell, though they are particularly useful for working steel which requires coke when not using bellows, and can also be useful for working iron since it normally requires at least charcoal to work.

Also, the crude bellows can be crafted with a large or huge pelt, so there's no need for a bear. You can get them from huge boars, sheep, gazelles, moose and some species of goats and deer.

Edited February 12 by MKMoose

[CastIronFabric]

2 minutes ago, MKMoose said:

Bismuth/tin//black bronze requires the metal to be at a temperature of at least 425/475/510 C for forging. The forge can normally go up to 700 C, but it gets reduced by 100 C when using brown coal or increased by 50/100 C when using charcoal/coke, so bronze doesn't require bellows at any point.

Spoiler just in case you want to mess with the mechanics further by yourself first:

  Reveal hidden contents

Bellows increase the forge temperature over a couple seconds after they are blown at a practically insignificant cost to fuel duration, and they allow to pretty easily reach up to ~1.5x the base maximum temperature (including the temperature gain from fuel), enough to work and quench iron and steel using brown coal with no significant issues. Interestingly, there seems to currently be no functional distinction between the different types of bellows, though I'd assume that should change, since it's ultimately a work-in-progress system at the moment.

Bellows aren't required for anything at the moment besides quenching as far as I can tell, though they can be pretty convenient for iron and steel by extending the amount of time before the worked item has to be heated back up on the forge. They can also be useful for working iron since it normally requires charcoal to work, and are particularly useful for working steel which requires coke when not using bellows.

Also, the crude bellows can be crafted with a large or huge pelt, so there's no need for a bear. You can get it from huge boars, sheep, gazelles, moose and some species of goats and deer.

oh perfect! thanks, I tried to read the bronze ignot in the handbook and it just crashed. Also I was unaware that charcol was more, I thought that was a bug. I have been forging with brown coal which most of the time cools down before I finish. This is very good info

Thanks again for the correction and clarification.

 

Edited February 12 by CastIronFabric

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

Also, how about rendering fat? I think rendering fat is a much larger change than hot meals

I don't know that I would call it a huge change since it's pretty easy to account for. The bigger issue with that particular change currently is that the handbook description of the process suggests that the player can just pick up the cookpot and dump out the contents, which isn't the case. Picking up the cookpot will empty it immediately without producing anything useful. Likewise, bowls can't be used to empty the contents either--it has to be bucket.

[Maelstrom]

So rendering fat is now locked behind an anvil.  That makes auomated querns equal to other automated machines.   Darn.   Gonna take a lot of time to make fireclay, flour and other stone age uses of the quern.

[LadyWYT]

15 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

So rendering fat is now locked behind an anvil.  That makes auomated querns equal to other automated machines.   Darn.   Gonna take a lot of time to make fireclay, flour and other stone age uses of the quern.

Maybe. I reported the issue and it's still on the tracker, so I daresay it's not exactly intended behavior. If not fixed though, I expect the handbook entry will at least be clarified, though it makes more sense to just allow players to dump the fat directly out of the cookpot.

[CastIronFabric]

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I don't know that I would call it a huge change since it's pretty easy to account for. The bigger issue with that particular change currently is that the handbook description of the process suggests that the player can just pick up the cookpot and dump out the contents, which isn't the case. Picking up the cookpot will empty it immediately without producing anything useful. Likewise, bowls can't be used to empty the contents either--it has to be bucket.

I would not call it a huge change either, it was a comparative statement. you disagree with the comparative?

That said, yes the handbook is unclear, bowls do not work either. 

 

Edited February 12 by CastIronFabric

[CastIronFabric]

27 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

So rendering fat is now locked behind an anvil.  That makes auomated querns equal to other automated machines.   Darn.   Gonna take a lot of time to make fireclay, flour and other stone age uses of the quern.

I do think rendering fat should be possible with a bowl, currently the only thing that works is a bucket and the hand book does not mention either.

Having said that, if one is going to go hunting I personally would suggest doing that with copper spears both in this version and in earlier versions. In fact, I suggest people get to copper age immediately after cooking supplies and storage vessels.

That is my personal take anyway.

 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

10 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Did you not watch Multiplicity which documents one of the major problems of cloning?

 

oh man... Michael Keeton... his movies never fail to make me smile.