Archimedes Screw. Do people use it, and if so in what way...

[Broccoli Clock]

I'd decided to automate my pulveriser; this involves making copper chutes for an angled chute, and a hopper with a chest. Copper chutes are new to me and I see that I can create an Archimedes screw using them, which is nice but I find it odd it's used for transferring solid goods. I'd seen it in the handbook but always assumed it was for water, as after all that is what it was invented for. I honestly don't think I've ever known it (IRL, that is) to transport anything other than liquids. I suppose you could argue something like an auger is just a dirt Archimedes screw.

I understand it could become much more useful in later updates, if mechanical power is being overhauled, and perhaps there are mods that take advantage of the item. However, as it is in 1.21 or earlier, has anyone put them to use? If so, in what way. 

[Ravensblade]

3 hours ago, Broccoli Clock said:

I honestly don't think I've ever known it (IRL, that is) to transport anything other than liquids. I suppose you could argue something like an auger is just a dirt Archimedes screw.

Archimedes screws are used commonly to move any loose material or push same material in. They are more known as screw conveyors or auger conveyors. The bases mechanism are identical. I wouldn't be surprised if English association of the name Archimedes Screw to only water is same sort of patenting scheme of more modern conveyors. I know that Archimedes Turbine was patented for same time in USA, even if mechanics are from antiquity and even turbine concept was created 100 years earlier in Europe. And generally the concept was patented or somebody tried to patent in multiple times. 

As for game, I didn't play much in mechanics, the most obvious would be using them in milling grain, but querns don't have proper outputs and require 4 hoppers. I have concept of windmill where quern is integrated in the middle parts of structure, and at the bottom are only input and output chest. But it's still in waiting.

[Broccoli Clock]

26 minutes ago, Ravensblade said:

Archimedes screws are used commonly to move any loose material or push same material in. They are more known as screw conveyors or auger conveyors. The bases mechanism are identical. I wouldn't be surprised if English association of the name Archimedes Screw to only water is same sort of patenting scheme of more modern conveyors. I know that Archimedes Turbine was patented for same time in USA, even if mechanics are from antiquity and even turbine concept was created 100 years earlier in Europe. And generally the concept was patented or somebody tried to patent in multiple times. 

Thanks for the reply, but..

It's called an Archimedes Screw because its invention was attributed to Archimedes, although there is archaeological evidence that other civilisations used it before his birth. The reason its associated with water is because it was invented to move water, not dirt. It was used to move water for centuries, from the Egyptians using it for Nile irrigation roughly around 400-300 BC to the removal of water from low lying land to create a large part of the Netherlands in the modern day (hence why there is such an association with windmills and NL). 

..as for using it  in game it seems to work like an elevator, as can be seen in the wiki.. https://wiki.vintagestory.at/File:Archimedes-screw-setting.png ..and that image itself opens up the question of "just wtf is that power source?" however it doesn't seem to support water in the game, which is odd considering the object's history but equally not all that odd as you don't really need it to pump water in the game.

I was interested to see how other people have implemented it into their build. I presume, as it's powered, the length of the screw system will affect the throughput. 

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by Broccoli Clock

[LadyWYT]

I swear there was somebody who managed to build an automated sorting system in VS with them, but can't recall who it was. 

In my case, I don't get that deep into the mechanical side, so I forget the Archimedes screw is a thing, for the most part.

[Vratislav]

14 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I swear there was somebody who managed to build an automated sorting system in VS with them, but can't recall who it was

Hello, there! 

I was experimenting with the Archimedes screw when designing the sorting system. It is possible to use it of you want to move items up, and it worked.

But at the end, the gravity was enough for the scope of the sorter I have tested and a design that moves items only on one level and then down to the next levels, proved more efficient, as independent on wind power. Wit the 1.22 water power, of course use of Archimedes screws in large-scope sorting systems can be feasible, as it can make large multi-segment designs.

But for your amusement, there are some pictures, if you want have things complicated... 
(Third picture is a no-screw system for comparison)

 

Edited March 1 by Vratislav

[Broccoli Clock]

34 minutes ago, Vratislav said:

Hello, there! 

I was experimenting with the Archimedes screw when designing the sorting system. It is possible to use it of you want to move items up, and it worked.

But at the end, the gravity was enough for the scope of the sorter I have tested and a design that moves items only on one level and then down to the next levels, proved more efficient, as independent on wind power. 

Those images are useful, thanks. I think you're right with the gravity thing, no need for a screw there. I'm not sure how many blocks the screw pushes for, if it's a couple or you need a screw block for each block moved, and the reason I ask that is the T-shaped chute in the handbook states, "Items can only flow three blocks horizontally before they get stuck". Which only opens another can of worms as not only is the complete description for the T-shaped chute a bit odd, the idea that it can "push items along" is just as weird.

I'm guessing a lot of this will be revised anyway with 1.22, and what I'm currently building (in 1.21) is very bare bones, so perhaps all this chat is moot, but I did like seeing the connections you've made. Is that all vanilla, or are there mods too? 

[Ravensblade]

17 hours ago, Broccoli Clock said:

Thanks for the reply, but..

It's called an Archimedes Screw because its invention was attributed to Archimedes, although there is archaeological evidence that other civilisations used it before his birth. The reason its associated with water is because it was invented to move water, not dirt. 

If somebody invented spoon to move liquid e.g soup from one plate to another, do i invent new tool if i used said spoon to move rice between plates? No. 

As for usage:

I have inefficient mill (1/4 of standard produce and huge force needed) but finally almost fit in 5x5 in 1.22. It would be great if there was something that would allow us to force mill exit side. 

[Broccoli Clock]

Just now, Ravensblade said:

If somebody invented spoon to move liquid e.g soup from one plate to another, do i invent new tool if i used said spoon to move rice between plates? No. 

Not sure the point you are making, the invention was to move water, it's always been used to move water, it's best suited for moving liquids. Can it move other things? Sure. Is it a new invention when it moves something other than liquids? No, although I wasn't saying it was, just what its primary function was and as to where the name originates.

Thanks for the image, I'm not on 1.22 yet so don't know what changes to the mechanical power has done to any building meta. I've actively avoided finding out purely down to wanting to experience the new build in its entirely (hopefully without bugs) than check it out piecemeal with each separate incremental update. No shade being thrown, just a personal choice.

That said, and out of interest, what exactly is going on there? I see the new smaller cogs with the middle one looking like it's powering the screw which in turn pulls whatever is to be crushed into the quern, then hoppering that into a chest. Not sure what the hopper on the right is for. 

 

[Vratislav]

Tried to design "meaingful" usage of the Archimedes screw for the sorting system, with two separate segments. There are some issues, as the screw is able to spill items only to 3 blocks distance, that requires to make that item bridge rather twisted.

(For BC, a 1.22 power source is used, so I am hiding it into spoiler)

Spoiler

 

[Ravensblade]

58 minutes ago, Broccoli Clock said:

That said, and out of interest, what exactly is going on there? I see the new smaller cogs with the middle one looking like it's powering the screw which in turn pulls whatever is to be crushed into the quern, then hoppering that into a chest. Not sure what the hopper on the right is for. 

The right hopper is the input. It can be a chest, i just placed hopper there. You put grain here, and when you return days later all flour is in the left chest. The power mechanics would be better put underground, and mill having 4 hoppers around it. I just try to fit the smallest footprint here. 

[Vratislav]

24 minutes ago, Ravensblade said:

I just try to fit the smallest footprint here.

In 1.22 you can actually put an axle into a block and then you can have 4-hopper loseless quern inside of 5x5 tower (if you give up the input chest being under the quern).
Just tested:
 

[Ravensblade]

4 minutes ago, Vratislav said:

In 1.22 you can actually put an axle into a block and then you can have 4-hopper loseless quern inside of 5x5 tower (if you give up the input chest being under the quern).
Just tested:
 

Yeah. But the whole point is to use screws to transport items and power them. From this perspective is to have input and output on floor 0, and don't have to access other parts of the mill. 

[Ravensblade]

Ok i worked a little more, so it's possible to fit it in 3x3. Found also bug with spurs (not used)

[Vratislav]

Pretty thought through. 

I am not sure if some quern output does not go diagonally, for that case, I came with 4x3 design, where the only what goes aside, is the Archimedes screw and it may be covered by trapdoors. 
 

[Ravensblade]

It occurred to me that screws can be used both as transport and as axle. So there is no point for separate axle from windmill. It's simplify it quite a lot. Whole bottom mechanism are 3 cogs

Edited March 1 by Ravensblade
to avoid double post

[Teh Pizza Lady]

until now, the only use I'd seen for the screw is as a vertical-only shaft for running axles next to things like the pulverizer and helve hammer that require a horizontal input.

Everything in this thread is crazy!

[Chrondeath]

I don't know, this all seems pretty....screwed up ()

[QueenGeeBee]

I have a decent amount of hours, and i still dont know how i'd use them. I'm kinda not well versed in chutes and stuff