QueenGeeBee

The new one has too many problems for me. - Way too many details. Simplify the grass, remove 90% of the clutter on the surface. We just need the grass and maybe a few stones, not all this machinery and mushrooms and flowers that will be completely lost on being made an icon. - I am not a big fan of all the tech on the tree. Theres just far too much, and its better served by a simple clock plate bolted to a tree, with a thin pipe branching off the side underground. I vastly prefer the grey color pipe over the muddy red of the new one, and the clock in the original is just far far superior. - The surface should be all nautural, save all the tech stuff for underground but keep the clock mixing the two themes in the center. The reason the original works is its simple and not over designed. It doesnt look generically blocky, it doesnt have thick outlines, it looks like an actual painting vs some modern blocky clipart, and most importantly its not covered in tons of random details that just clutter the image. The more i look at the new one the less i like it. Dont be afraid of rounded shapes, less outlines, more curves to the natural section.

Just to comment on your point, you already lose health at low stability.

I know some people aren't too keen on making the storms drop lots of useful resources or being too beneficial because of the whole lore angle and it being a phenomenon vs a loot event, but I do think they have to game-ify it at least a little bit. A strong entity that arrives at the midpoint of the storm, and if you kill it the storm ends early sounds like it could be neat, but they would also need to drop something so that the player has an incentive to do something difficult / risky. I think, if they buff / change some of the jonas devices to be more worthwhile and maybe add a few more, then making the reward for engaging with the storm and killing this miniboss being guranteed jonas parts for the player to build and play with these devices, it would go a long way.

Its exciting to hear that they want to fix the storms. I think they brought up new entities for the storms too so that's always fun.

I hate seeing the AI covers. It puts me off of the mod instantly.

I agree that the grown bait crops feel pointless when worms work fine. They could use a buff.

I like them too. We can do without making assumptions for the entire community and doom posting tho, thatd be cool. Theres plenty of ways to leave less aggressive feedback.

Genuinely, I think a lot of people are reading the changes and reacting to them without trying them out. Ive seen several posts saying they havent played the update yet but they dislike the changes, and they really arent as bad as people are assuming imo. Maybe its just a playstyle difference but im drowning in bones for bonemeal and the gears arent going to catch fire with thought out set ups. Fat processing is whatever though to me. I guess it makes sense and timewise is forgiving enough to get it done.

Would be cool if we could make leather belts, quivers, or tents or whatever. Leather making is such an intricate process that I just want more stuff to craft with it, but im hard pressed to come up with many ideas. Late game its really just something to sell for money since bags dont really need upkeep and you can stay on top of clothing repairs.

They could introduce a new enemy that exists to slowly walk around and stuff out lights so even more stuff could spawn. Maybe only weaker enemies could squeeze through the storm in more well lit areas, with the intensity continuing to grow more and more worse as lights are smothered and the environment is more accepting of higher tier enemies. Could also tie the storm intensity directly to what tiers of enemies can spawn like someone suggested earlier. I really did like that idea.

I personally would appreciate this as a middleground. I understand that no where is supposed to be safe, and that this is like an apocalyptic event, but no one likes an enemy spawning directly on top of them and getting a free hit, lore or no lore. Also, unrelated to the quote, if the rift ward isn't a good solution, maybe talking to a certain guy in chapter 2 could give the player a blueprint to upgrade it to make it actually work on storms.

I could not agree more than I do. I was reading through this thread loading up a post on how rift wards should protect the area from the effects of a temporal storm, and you beat me to it. People barely build jonas tech items. They're fairly late game, and half of them are terribly not worth the effort. I think giving one of these later game inventions the ability to protect your base from temporal storms would be similar to making a warm set of clothes and stockpiling food for winter. Its something a player can actively do in order to better survive a challenge, and doing this prep lets them do more than just huddling around a tiny area waiting for things to pass. No ones coming out the gate building a rift ward early game, so new players aren't missing out on that core experience of going through several temporal storms, building a ward will just allow them to do more stuff around the base without fear of getting instantly murdered. It also still makes being caught out in the wild dangerous, as it'll be like being caught in the middle of winter without the proper protection. The way i see it now, Storms are as if the devs added Winter, but theres no warm clothing currently in the game, so the only gameplay is stand next to a fire until it gets warmer outside. We have a tech in the game that could feasibly be used as some kind of deterrant, so I think they should make it work as one. I think the bits of areas that are permanately temporally unstable should look messed up like the rust world. Metal clutter structures sticking out of the ground, dead trees, just a really messed up place that also serves to show the player 'hey this place is temporily unstable', I think a player exploring these areas and seeing just how messed up they are would serve your idea pretty well, while also improving a feature thats currently in the game.

Ive thought about the class system since I started the game, and ive mostly come away with this stance. I do not like classes being made different through exclusive crafting recipes. I understand you can turn off the exclusive recipes, but i want classes to be different in a gameplay sense vs unique items. I dont mind if some classes are better at crafting things, like maybe discounts on certain items, or producing multiple additional items like threads or arrows or whatever. I think Hunter and Blackguard are decently balanced. Everyone can use a ranged weapon and hunt animals, but hunters get more out of ranged weapons and more animal drops. Everyone can wear heavy armor and engage in melee, but blackguards are more proficient at wearing that armor and swinging their swords. The way i think they can make the classes more unique is to make mechanics that everyone can engage with, but improve how the specific classes perform them. Tailors should get some kind of boon related to trading, because it would give them even more of a niche to comfortably sit in. Everyone could buy and sell things to a trader as normal, but maybe tailors can get a bonus gear here or there. I think its okay to give a class thats almost entirely just crafting recipes a strong bonus to lean on. Clockmakers just need more jonas tech stuff to shine, and maybe like improving fuel efficiency or duration or whatever for the powered gear. Everyone can use the tech, but clockmakers can use them much longer would probably be ideal. Maybe they could have a bonus with bombs too, since bombs are complicated inventions and when i think inventors, i think gizmos and cool bombs. I could see a dockworker/sailor class that actually makes boats theyre piloting faster / better fishing drops and maybe a faster swim speed, idk, could be fun.

I have a decent amount of hours, and i still dont know how i'd use them. I'm kinda not well versed in chutes and stuff

I definitely think they need to add detriments to high heat areas, and clothing options that keep you cool vs keep you warm. They could keep it simple, if your heat is too high youll take little ticks of damage, and you can cool off in shade/in water. Id handle heatstroke and hypothermia in the background, keeping track of damage taken by temperature like an incrementing number. Maybe have it tick down very slowly so if you took the time to avoid temperature damage youd avoid getting the debuff. Once youve accumulated enough damage ticks from temp over a few days, youd officially suffer from hypothermia/heat stroke, taking a debuff to stats or whatever. I dont want it to be 'oh you were outside for 2 minutes now youre punished' but rather long term ramifications for constantly taking damage Just my idea at how it would be handled.

I love all the features 1.22 is bringing, and fishing was one I was hoping for for a real long time. Personally, I really hope they dive into herbalism and potion brewing next, since I feel like that has the opportunity to have an incredible amount of depth. That, plus mushroom/specific flower growing for ingredients for potions would really be cool. I know the game is championed for being pretty realistic, but I think itd be cool to be the alchemist in a town, making potent healing drinks or maybe stimulants that increases work speed, or combat strength. Maybe some freakier temporal goop potions that improve stability or something idk. I also want them to touch up all the profession/classes in the game and add more unique gameplay to each besides unique crafts. I dont like class restricted crafts and would prefer some more adjustments tbh.

Elevators are coming eventually. Should make setting up a launch point easier

Because its a good game, and calling it 5 dollar shovel-ware is absurd. /thread

I like your idea Ifoz, so something like this? Mechanicals are weak to Blunt, because it smashes up their bits Rotbeasts/Rust monsters are weak to Slashing (What the falx does / maybe axe why not) Animals are weak to piercing, because it damages their internals (like the bow and arrow / spear, weapons a Hunter would use.) I think the important bit is to not make any enemies resistant to a damage type. It would just confuse players as to why weapons of the same tier kill enemies at confusing rates. They should allow people to realistically use any weapon they wanna use, and maybe just reward using some weapons on certain enemies. It would be a basic way to add some complexity, it still makes the falx the best weapon to take on rust monsters (as it was designed to do lore wise). That, combined with MKMoose's Shove action idea, and status affect infliction based on weapon type (Like blunt weapons stunning, or slashing weapons bleeding over time) would be a great start at making combat more worthwhile engaging with and learning the mechanics, while not completely making it unapproachable by new players.

Unrelated, Threads hot wooo Also, the new complexity with smithing mechanics is really cool. Cant wait to see how that plays out in terms of shaking up combat. I hope they sneak rebalanced spears into the update so i can rock a steel lance and fight some monsters

I couldnt agree more. Its just strange to me that some hold the opinion that the devs shouldnt touch up combat because its not the main focus, like thats an excuse to leave a system feeling bad. Its like saying 'I dont think a majority of players come to vintage story expecting tailoring to be good, so we should leave it exactly how it is and not change anything about it.' Or 'Making tailoring more complicated would just make players feel confused/excluded or keep them from engaging with other parts of the game.' Like we're not playing a game with vast mechanical depth in a lot of its systems. I also dont agree with the argument that most players dont come to vintage story expecting complex combat mechanics. Clearly lots of people want good combat, theres been countless threads and posts and suggestions over combat for years. I want to have fun with good combat, and that doesnt make my desires for the game any less valid. Im sure people find fun in games like this in a lot of different ways, and there shouldnt be a argument that most everyone only enjoys one main aspect of it. Combat should be changed to be both fun and rewarding to engage with. Spending time prospecting for ore, mining it, heating it into bars, then smithing it into a cool weapon should have a payoff of having a sick time using that cool weapon to fight monsters, but rewards are completely not worth it, and combat boils down to running backwards (because enemies try and occupy the same space as the player so you have to continuously run away or theyll clip into you and damage you) and clicking on enemies (because thats the only way to kill them and theres no inherent strategies. Anywhere you hit on an enemy does the same damage, all weapons work the exact same and have little difference besides autoloot vs throw spear, and the only reaction enemies give is they sometimes try to run at low hp) I just want to make steel tier clubs with the ability to stun enemies tbh. Maybe also give enemies better hitboxes and a weakspot so theres some gameplay to aiming where to hit. I dont think we need the world given to us, just enough to add more mechanical complexity so i can learn and master a system like how people can learn/master smithing.

Im surprised to see so many people talking about an idea i also had. I really do think they should give tailors a mercantile trait that discounts trader prices and increases how much traders pay to buy from you. Tailors to me just really seem unappealing to play, entirely because most of what they offer is unique crafts. I dont like classes playstyles being dictated just by what they craft, so anything to move away from it and give them abilities that everyone can do, but they uniquely do better is how i want things to be balanced. Everyone can still buy and sell to traders, but making tailors better at it is like how hunters are better at ranged combat, or how blackguards are better at wearing armor and fighting. The idea of playing the trader market, buying, selling, and producing goods to sell specifically makes it sound fun to be a group's merchant. I also love the idea of making clothing even more in depth with mechanics. Personally id love it if tailoring got even half the detail that smithing has, but something as simple as clothing needing be washed of blood and grime every once in awhile seems neat too, and clean/fancy clothes improving trader interactions is really fun. While people are prioritizing better armors and weapons, tailors could prioritize better looking outfits to get even better deals

So elegantly put, I fully agree with Clevermagpie's summary. I do think that at the very least, the game could do with implimenting more weapons to the pool. I dont think we'll get a full rework to combat, but even adding some variety to how people could engage with it would be a good start. I feel like the way to incentivize using different weapons would be making enemies weak to certain damage types like crushing, piercing, slashing, that kinda thing, but the pool of enemies might be a bit limited to pull that off in a way thats easy to understand without seeming arbitrary

Personally, my way to fix jonas tech parts being annoying to grind is to take those temporally unstable surface chunks, add lots of rusty debri and rust world blocks, like a certain other location but on a much lesser scale, and then just have locust nests respawn in those corrupted areas when storms happen. They could probably make a lore reason as to why, and it would be a cool way to make scrap and parts a bit easier to get. Like, 'Lets go gear up and head into that unstable chunk'.

Yes, the game needs a combat overhaul. There, Ive solved the thread. We can close it now.