More layers of bowl in pit klin.

[Laskuna]

Please add more layers of bowl in pit klin. Should be at least 8 at once, maybe 12, not 4.

 

[Omega Haxors]

This. I plan on using a ton of oil lamps but with how long they take to make, it's not even remotely reasonable.

[Philtre]

Personally, I'd like a second, more advanced type of kiln; a permanent structure with a higher capacity across the board, like a scaled-up bread oven or less-expensive blast furnace. There's a number of clay items that are a pain to make in quantity using pit kilns (bricks, I'm looking at you).

[Windego]

On 10/25/2021 at 4:31 AM, Philtre said:

Personally, I'd like a second, more advanced type of kiln; a permanent structure with a higher capacity across the board, like a scaled-up bread oven or less-expensive blast furnace. There's a number of clay items that are a pain to make in quantity using pit kilns (bricks, I'm looking at you).

I agree to some degree. Having the option to add just a layer or two extra of a given clay item before you fire it up can save you some space and time in the long run of big projects..
But having a multi block structure designated for mid-game clay forming and firing would be a great idea. You could even use the concept of the blast furnace to implement it.
I also like the bigger clay oven idea..
One that would have shelves so at least one additional layer can be added when you're making a pie or bread or cooking anything for that matter.
 

[AdrianNumbers]

Without some kind of scafolding for second layer that can withstand fire it would very much break immersion (otherwise somewhere during the whole process the second layer should fall on the first one potentially damaging both) thus in my opinion we should rather go with better way of fireing clay products as a whole , as Windego and Philtre already said some sort of multiblock structure (similar in some aspects to cementation furnace) would be best.

[Windego]

Given that the temperatures for firing clay items is, to my knowledge, limited to the temperatures produced by the firewood... You could add metal to give it structural support for the different layers, of said multi-block structure. Like a raster. A shelf. Even copper should suffice as it has a much higher temperature resistance.

Or fire brick.
You'd have to start with regular one layer pit kilns for the first few bricks. But can eventually work your way up to a multi block structure.

[Maelstrom]

On 10/31/2021 at 3:18 AM, AdrianNumbers said:

Without some kind of scafolding for second layer that can withstand fire it would very much break immersion (otherwise somewhere during the whole process the second layer should fall on the first one potentially damaging both) thus in my opinion we should rather go with better way of fireing clay products as a whole , as Windego and Philtre already said some sort of multiblock structure (similar in some aspects to cementation furnace) would be best.

Consider that you can currently stack multiple layers of bricks and shingles without constructing a scaffolding in the kiln.  I would argue some aspects of realism need to be left out.  It's already tedious enough firing enough refractory bricks to build a cementation furnace without have to build scaffolding in the numerous pits.  

[Windego]

4 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Consider that you can currently stack multiple layers of bricks and shingles without constructing a scaffolding in the kiln.  I would argue some aspects of realism need to be left out.  It's already tedious enough firing enough refractory bricks to build a cementation furnace without have to build scaffolding in the numerous pits.  

I think, though I may be wrong, that the idea for scaffolding was meant for a rather grand-scale multi block structure. Which would make sense if we're talking about something with an internal filling size of about 5x5x5 blocks. (Each block being fully filled with bricks, for example, which would be.... 24? 32? bricks per block space?)
If we use that, /then/ the scaffolding would be more of a cool idea that makes sense rather than a tedious task. And of course the scaffolding, being made of brick or metal, would last indefinitely.

[AdrianNumbers]

5 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Consider that you can currently stack multiple layers of bricks and shingles without constructing a scaffolding in the kiln.  I would argue some aspects of realism need to be left out.  It's already tedious enough firing enough refractory bricks to build a cementation furnace without have to build scaffolding in the numerous pits.  

True but bowls are more prone to defomation if under stress due to shape than bricks or shingles , its possible to keep bricks from sticking to each other with thin layer of dirt or sand just sprinkled on top and bottom surface so i dont have any problem with players beeing able to place them in 2 or more layers in pit kiln since we can just say that seraphs uses sand or dirt somewhere in the mean time without player input just for simpicity ,  but you cant stack bowls this easly one on the other when they are still "wet" because they would deform or if you first placed something in between they would break when hitting each other. 

 

1 hour ago, Windego said:

I think, though I may be wrong, that the idea for scaffolding was meant for a rather grand-scale multi block structure. Which would make sense if we're talking about something with an internal filling size of about 5x5x5 blocks. (Each block being fully filled with bricks, for example, which would be.... 24? 32? bricks per block space?)
If we use that, /then/ the scaffolding would be more of a cool idea that makes sense rather than a tedious task. And of course the scaffolding, being made of brick or metal, would last indefinitely.

well not really i mean that in this certain situation ( more than one layer of bowls in pit kiln) absence on any kind of scafolding would break the immersion , reason beeing what i wrote as answer to Mealstorm's comment.

But to be honest it might just be me beeing picky.

[Windego]

1 hour ago, AdrianNumbers said:

True but bowls are more prone to defomation if under stress due to shape than bricks or shingles , its possible to keep bricks from sticking to each other with thin layer of dirt or sand just sprinkled on top and bottom surface so i dont have any problem with players beeing able to place them in 2 or more layers in pit kiln since we can just say that seraphs uses sand or dirt somewhere in the mean time without player input just for simpicity ,  but you cant stack bowls this easly one on the other when they are still "wet" because they would deform or if you first placed something in between they would break when hitting each other. 

 

well not really i mean that in this certain situation ( more than one layer of bowls in pit kiln) absence on any kind of scafolding would break the immersion , reason beeing what i wrote as answer to Mealstorm's comment.

But to be honest it might just be me beeing picky.

That just gave me an idea.
You know how bony soil gets picked off in very thin layers, visually, while you pan them? What if you could use a dirt block in a similar way to make layers between the raw clay ones. That /should/ in theory act as said scaffolding between raw clay item layers. With things that have a different depth in the center rather than just a completely flat surface... You could use sticks. We already, use sticks at the top. What's one layer of sticks to it, so we can add another layer of bowls?

[AdrianNumbers]

55 minutes ago, Windego said:

That just gave me an idea.
You know how bony soil gets picked off in very thin layers, visually, while you pan them? What if you could use a dirt block in a similar way to make layers between the raw clay ones. That /should/ in theory act as said scaffolding between raw clay item layers. With things that have a different depth in the center rather than just a completely flat surface... You could use sticks. We already, use sticks at the top. What's one layer of sticks to it, so we can add another layer of bowls?

Again me beeing picky and wanting too much realism from game but it sounds like using game mechanics to much , because normaly dirt wont be solid enought ... but still if we just used sand or dirt to fill a bowl it could work , the problem here is that in contrast to bottom and top sides of bricks inside surface of bowl does matters a lot in terms of texture , then again we dont really have enought resolution in terms shapes to see sand grains that would stick to inside of bowl if we were to fill it with sand before firing so all of this depends on how much realism do we really want from the game.

[AdrianNumbers]

And as a side note i think it would be much better to make some sort of structure similar to cementation furnace but for fireing clay items and using fire wood as fuel.

[AdrianNumbers]

maybe something along those lines ? the dry grass blocks would be a mixture of dry grass and sticks similar to the one in pit kiln. those shelves should be metal racks of some sort and we should have the ability to place 2 variants that would be interchangeable : 1 and 2 layers in a block space . Since we use wood (or peat maybe as well) as fuel temperatures wouldnt be so extreme thus even tier 1 bricks should be 100% immune to damage.

[Windego]

7 hours ago, AdrianNumbers said:

maybe something along those lines ? the dry grass blocks would be a mixture of dry grass and sticks similar to the one in pit kiln. those shelves should be metal racks of some sort and we should have the ability to place 2 variants that would be interchangeable : 1 and 2 layers in a block space . Since we use wood (or peat maybe as well) as fuel temperatures wouldnt be so extreme thus even tier 1 bricks should be 100% immune to damage.

That was the idea a few posts up. You having built it in game helps visualize that idea. Good work!

Of course we can go on for days about implementing realism in this game and make it as complex as possible, or rather, close to real life.
But at the end of the day we have to ask ourselves at what point do we try too much to make it realistic?
The shelves would still need to be made from either specially treated wood that's resistant to heat or metal.
By the time we can make iron doors for this contraption.. We will probably be heading towards steel already. Have a sizeable bee farm and enough iron or other metal sheets to make a hoard of lanterns. Making things like bowls a bit obsolete. The structure would need to be quite a bit bigger to really benefit from having to build it in the first place. Otherwise dedicating a field in the backyard of your main house for a couple dozen pit kilns in the ground sounds significantly easier and simplistic to accomplish for whatever project you'd be making.

Suddenly keeping simplicity in mind and adding one, single layer of additional clay items to a singular pit kiln block space sounds a lot easier.

All that being said, with a bit of re-thinking towards keeping things not over complicated, this mid to end game structure for larger clay firing could work.

[AdrianNumbers]

So lets say it as such : for now such eventual multi block pottery furnace falls in a kind of werid spot in terms of suitability for the game , since before you can make it you probably wont need it apart from when you want to build something realy big from clay products and not everyone wants it. That said later in the game developement we might get : some sort of late game pottery sink , pottery could start breaking (casts especially) , some other item materials that needs to be fired like porcelain that would need more stable temperature to not break , or bigger structures from bricks like blast furnace or glass smelter and soo on that would need a lot of bricks to be build and maybe would be prone to damage if left unattended (overheating for example) , or just maybe new building blocks like ceramic tiles (ohhhhhh it could be nice to have in game "creator" for tiles that once design is created you would only need materials for) that would need to be fired in such structure again due to stable temperature and then could be placed over blocks like tapestry ... but honestly i might be going to much into speculation

[l33tmaan]

Not to ruin the discussion, but you guys know Jakecool actually made a very similar multi-block kiln in his Useful Things mod, right?

[Irulana]

I would love to see better more advanced pit kiln but this thing require a lot of work. For now adding more layers of bowls would be good simple solution from game play perspective. Currently making them is very inefficient comparing to other clay stuff.