Kazeoni

@Hal13how far have you read back the thread before commenting? By the too deep part I meant on the hypothetical oceans we were discussing the possibilities and challenges of. Of course there is no such thing in the current worldgen. Though I stumbled upon a 30+ block deep massive lake recently. But I play with 512 worldheight instead of the standard 256, so a 10-15 block depth of the current generation's 'seas' sounds about right. And Primitive Survival's raft is more than sufficent to cross them. And the crux of the issue is multi-block ships are a whislist item on the roadmap by the developers. But having anything larger than a rowboat with small cargo is meaningless fluff and a vaste of development effort if we don't have actual oceans needing multiple days to cross. But who would want to just sail ahead monotonously for IRL hours? That's the specific case for where I threw in the fast-travel idea, specifically large end-game ships to cross several kilometers of just water. I wanna play Magellan or build my own East India Company. Accurately using up food for days of journey for the seraphs but not burdening the player IRL with hours of straigh ahead serves the exploration and immersion aspects of the game way better than restricting water sizes to irrealistic sizes for seas, just so people won't get bored trying to cross them at least in my eyes.

Aw C'mon I was most interested in your reply, given how you seem to have a good focus on keeping the game enjoyable and having the new features add real gamplay value not just be there for bloat and realistic generation. And I haven't gone into programming at all, as I only scratch the surface of the field at best. Though as an engineering drop-out I'm more versed in technical/conceptual thinking than the avarage gamer regarding these mechanics, and I really went HAM on that aspect. But we don't have to go into the technical details as far as I've run ahead. Feedback on the general concept in layman's terms is well apreciated. Especially with such a radical aproach. My own immedieate protest was cutting the game-world into several pieces with loading screens at the oceans would be immersion-breaking, but the upsides were numerous enough I decided to throw it in anyway and see what others think. That! Exactly that was the core opposition between immersive/realistic sizes VS managable/rewarding travel as far as gameplay was the issue I wanted to tackle which sent me down on my rabbit-hole. With this system, once you are stocked on food, prospected the 2-4km radius of your base but need more, sailing out would be actually more time-efficient for a player than going on a long hike. Though given your tangent on not needing ebony or the fancy other-than-starter-biome stuff, you might still be the one, who doesn't engage much with sailing. But mines get stripped after a while, and getting to climates with longer farming seasons on a relatively fast way once the economy can sustain the ship is always nice to have. That may have been a lost in translation moment on my previous textwall. Ship simulator is probably too ambitious of a name, as I wouldn't call the vanilla mealmaking system a cooking simulator exactly, tho certainly a solid base. What I suggested was more of a seafaring-mechanic/fast travel minigame. And then went overboard on the technical implications and possibilities this workaround opened. Sooo, cutting out the vast too-deep-to-explore middle parts of the great waters with a sailing fast-travel mini-game can work right?

Haven't tried yet, but read someone switched the temporal rift audio 'cuz it was so annoying continously. So the possibility is there to change sounds, including music. Looked at the folder architecture and by the looks of it, it's a bit more complicated than single drag'n'drop. Here is the path "[...]\Vintagestory\assets\survival\music" Reading musicconfig.json, just adding other music to this folder won't work, as the tracks have parameters on what time of the day they can trigger. I can't help with editing the config, no programmer, just enthusiast barely learning to read and tweak minor stuff for personal use. However it looks like we can replace the music. Convert the music you want to .ogg, and rename exactly to a pre-existing OST there, paste to overwright the original. And that should switch your personal music with the game's OST.

Generally I would like more variables to world option for difficulty tweaks. I'm a fairly heavy mod user, so hard to pin-point anything specific, but many I would like not as a full feature but a togglable setting. Eg. I currently use Backpack pack+ and stacks on my normal world, but want a wilderness survival without stack size increase and the standard size backpack pack mod. But same as tool speed and durability having a worldgen rule, stuff like stack size and slots/containers (both carryable and stationary) should have different presets. In that similar vein, the starter-kit can be a world setting too, with default as-is for wilderness, a very limited point-shop for normal and a more forgiving for exploration mode, the stock of the starter-shop differing on classes maybe. And there is Anvil metal recovery mod... great concept, but the balancing is a bit iffy. Given how we have the nuggets of 5 units, and the molds at 100, I'm hoping the current system is just the basis, and we will have different metal amount needs for molds. Breaking metal tools shouldn't just void them either, doesn't feel realistic... but getting back most of it back is bad for balancing... maybe tie this ratio to a world option too?

Ohh boi. Such possibilities... and such technical hurdles. But this topic sent my mind racing for the last week, so buckle up for a massive outside the box suggestion-dump. I'll also second oceans and multi-block-ships going hand in hand despite programming those being a herculean task. And such large bodies of water which should be impossible to cross without proper ships imply thinking on general worldgen on the continental scale. But an ocean on a realistic scale may as well be extremely dull and daunting to cross as Garjouan pointed out. So here is the WTF idea: what if oceans get implemented by not actually implementing, just faking them. And now let's deepdive on my smokes and mirrors of an ocean generation concept: Make the open seas/oceans not part of the actual game, but as a meta-map and handle it in a different layer/engine whathaveyou once we sail out past a loading screen. Once we are out on seas, it's basicly Mass Effect's on the ship situation. The outside world doesn't really exist, just coding magic makes us experience we are moving in a larger environment. Of course it has to be way more immersive than ME's galaxy map with the off.scale ship and planets. Think proper sailing mechanics and pathfinding via the stars. With this, ocean storms would not need to burden the water physics of the main engine, and worldsize (IRL on the HDD/SSD) is greatly reduced not having to save vast uninteresting open waters or programming a ton of features for it in worldgen just to make it presentable. And since now sailing is it's own separate mini-game, we can mess with our preception of time more freely like sleeping through the night just on steroids. Meaning, while our little Seraphs prep the rations, to be at open seas for weeks if not even months, and the supplies would dwindle accordingly, us the players won't have to play through the whole journey IRL at the standard 48minutes/IG-day rate. We can have a 2-month-trip in 3 IRL minutes if the waters are merciful and we don't have to attend to a storm or a monster situation in real time during the journey. This should make it feasible to replicate Magellan's and Columbus' legendary journeys and make it feel like an achievement without spending IRL weeks on open seas. Also a proper meta-map eliminates the sillyness of multiple polar-equator lines on the map and istantly makes theese journeys rewarded by the change in climate being both reachable and more realistic than the current solution. This "fast travel" can even be used to cheat time in the actual world. Imagine you are not in the winter mood, this time. Your cellar is stocked, you are ready for it just don't want to deal with it, want to explore in spring or whatever. Instead of cheating with commands, you take your ship, sail down to your tropic resort, have a fun week there, sail back. And the rest of the time is fast-forwarded while on open seas. You back at your well-established temperate fortress, the farmlands recovered during the winter and the flowers are blossoming. Then here is one more out-there idea on the top of this: 'World-stitching": Given how this idea of oceans essentiall cuts the world into smaller worlds, we can also play with the other possibilities these technical shenanigans open. The Naval meta-map only needs the ship and a low-res shoreline of the world, the actual continents should basically be storable in separate world files (.vcdbs) with one govering little file holding it together. This means the world saves are not one .vcdbs, but a subfolder with multiple of them tied in a bow. We can have some fun with this newfound modularity! Get a world-edit tool, that can mix and match continent worldfiles to the naval meta-map. And instead of just letting the game generate new continents, have the ability to import existing ones. (Maybe I'm a naive layman, but it seems to me, this continet save would only need to differ from the current worldgen in one new noise layer which tells the game where to generate the end of continet/deep shoreline where you can only leave the map with a ship. And instead of a janky worldborder have a guaranteed 'lurker attack' near the edge if you dare to go too far out just swimming/raft/rowboat.[lurker is just me spitballing the drifter version of a whale/krakken, whatever we need]) Newly generated land is cool, but imagine generating and existing one by a toggleable chance. I think I'm not the only one with a beloved world that had tons of hours, but stopped for any reasons, and once I came back, it was too advanced to get back into rythm and I preferred to start fresh. We can give some love to these abaddoned world. Whitelist them to the new world and we can play-pretend that the old campaign happened in the same world on a different continent, our old Seraph perished, and the current one can stuble upon the abaddoned fort. This can has it's own mapDB on the site to give singleplayer a sense of community. As I don't want to deal with online multiplayer's server-time food spoilage (only SP and the ocasional LAN afternoon). But I would really love to engage more with the community's creations and not just on a superficial worldtour scale. So let's share maps, let the creative mapmakers suprise us, if we want some extra handmade spice other than freshly generated lands. Ok, so instead of actual ocean talk, I ended up working around them with a continent-management meta-map and a sailing simulator minigame, but I think these concepts can work nicely and could help performance-wise as well. Plus IMO actual sailing mechanics and exploration are more fitting for Vintage Story's "relive medieval industry" ethos, than just adding massive waters not large enough for real oceans but almost too large to ever cross. Very interested in everyone's feedback, as these "shower thoughts" literally kept me up at night after reading the thread while on the bus home from work. The other ocean features everyone talking about are also rather interesting and have place in the deeper shores. Or if the continent map is not technically a continent but an archipelago. I just can't add anything meaningfull to those aspects. One more not on the multi-block ships, which are still the big IF in this equation: Imo the separate standard map/world/engine and naval/ map [...] can also make this more feasible. Until getting out into open sea, which wouldn't nned to bother with anything but the sailing stuff. If overly daunting it doesn't really have to have any special behaviors, and we already have Vies' vehicles in mod working: https://mods.vintagestory.at/viescraftmachines so we are not that far off. Here I also have a constraint/slight-of-hand solution. Because the big difference between the ships we are dreaming of and these vehicles in the mod is that these are predetermined large entities not structure built from individual blocks and that's a huge barrier to cross right? So limit the ships to presets. Have them be like in-world recipes of certain historically accurate ships. We build a dry-dock... that get's recognized similar to greenhouse/cellar... mechanics. Inside that you have to place the hull of the ship block-by-block exactly as a recipe. Then there is a free-form hidden interior which we can fill with cargo and custom fluff to our heart's content. Since the outside is matched to a recipe, the game can switch that with a pre-coded ship entity, and we have that as the ship. The interior just gets saved and is practically non-existent while we use the ship in-map. And the naval-mode meta-map/engine should be designed specifically to handle the ship and not much else so a solution to have our custom ship there is a bit more reasonable, than all the time. Of course for the ship to have the ability to switch between the block-build and the controllable frame, in world we could only dock at pre-built sites to trigger the switcharoo or on new land open water, where it does not conflict with any other blocks, and we gotta get to shore via rowboat or swimming. I'm no coder, just some veeery basic understanding, but this concept seems feasable as a rough framework. (someone more professional is probably pulling their hair on my nonsense, but please elaborate, I wanna understand more, just never got to it properly). And at worst-case-scenario / very rudimentary WIP implementation, we can have the ship not really movable, just go straigth to naval-meta-map via GUI from the dock. I'd not consider that a finished feature though. A final-final tangent not with oceans, just the multi-file continents setup: That obviously locks Temporal Translocator to be only workable inside the same continet. Unless we tier them. Having an intercontinental Translocator should be extremely rare, perhaps even an actual boss-dungeon. But maybe with clues pointing towards it in smaller ruins. And depending on world settings it could be a one-way trip (would have it connect on exploration, and not on normal, maybe bite into your stability-meter on wilderness)... just slinging you across the globe for the adventure of a lifetime, to a regular Translocator on a preset continent. You have to activate the intercontinental Translocator on the other side or build a ship to get back for added thrill and challenge. Oww dang, here I go again ranting and ripping of Mass Effect's Relay system. Thank you to anyone who even dared to read this long.

True dat... you nicely elaborated on the 'kinda' part of my previous comment. Sweeping tweak mods should be more modular with config. With BTH we are kinda lucky, that mod .zip only has subfolders and .json files, so with a very rudementary coding knowledge we can introduce homebrew tweaks and trims to these. Still tiresome but not impossible. Where the .dll comes in, that's where at my level I just call the exorcist and close the text editor admitting defeat LOL.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. I'm just trying to keep a positive 'can do' attitude here, while being mindful of despite how immensly dedicated Tyron and the crew are, this is still a small indie devteam with massive ambitions and they are spread very thin. Also try workbench expansions: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/285 This mod has a feature of autocopying chiseled blocks if you feed in the raw materials. Should take most of the tedium out when you need multiple of the same double-slab setup.

Daamn, that's amazing... I wasn't that much bothered by them, but might need a little tweak. However you mentioning this, I'll definately play a bit with the .ogg-s. Mixinng in a bit of Prince of Persia Warrior Within OST with the low sability is just my vibe.

Good one and pretty based. But we kinda already have it in the "Better Than Heresy" mod: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/898 Overall neat tweak package. But yeah, would be nice in vanilla as well. However it being implemented nicely via mod I don't think that's a priority.

Just spitballing here on no.1 no actual idea as I'm no coder. Probably it would conflict with the sideways slab functionality. But anyway with chiseling we can always work around that, so I don't think the devs should focus on solving that much.

Beneath that milky hide, There's emptiness inside I wonder if they even bleed? They're SAVAGES! SAVAGES! No more even human SAVAGES! SAVAGES! Just a few screenshots of preparing to my latest temporal storm. I can't help to absolutely LOVE the atmosphere of this event. Chanting 'Savages' as I gather my spears and turn up the sound. Also the heavy sepia tones remind me of the good ol' Dahaka chases from Prince of Persia Warrior Within... that game is my personal GOAT. And with Better Drifters and Temporal Tinkerer mods installed, even the loot is worthwhile for a fun little combat challenge. Anyhow... feedback is appreciated, but I'm more interested to turn the topic into a Temporal Storm/ general combat screenshots and stories thread. Want to hear from everyone's experiences

Yupp, the game world is massive and the resource distribution is built to encourage exploration. Streetwind may be a bit on the extreme nomad side, but the general idea holds true. Loose flint is everywhere, even in soft stone areas so just keep an open eye. Pop up the map and start heading for bodies of water. Not all, but most will have cattails soon enough. Settling a starter base by day2-4 is perfectly fine. Look for clay and water combination, you can move in the other early game necessities. Very important to rely more on marking waypoints than filling your very limited inventory at this stage

Kind of the complete package. The attention to detail, the immersion and the good amount of grind for the perfect progression rythm. Just the amount of work that goes into your first pickaxe to go caving makes your your world feel infinitely larger than MC. When I can 1x2 tunnel down to bedrock and get diamond pickaxe on my first night. Even before a world begins it already feels "been there, done that". Here, while you have to put in work, it feels so much more rewarding. The ore distribution with rarer but larger veins and more varried types just perfectly fuels exploration. Been at the point of trying to custom modpack something similar, before knowing VT existed, but never really fit together. Also the Temporal storms are a soft spot for me as a lifelong Prince of Persia (Sands of Time trilogy) fan. The way the storms bleach out the color palette to sepia gives me them good ol' Dahaka chase vibes. I also don't get why most YouTubers skip/hide from/cheese storms. I always treat them like events... chanting "savages savages" as I gather my equipment and try to hunt down as many drifters as I can.

As far as I see it, temporal stability being referred as sanity-meter is just a very rough generalization. Since many videogames and even tabletops use sanity mechanics for roughly similar gameplay effects, it's a faster blanket term to throw in without going on a huge tangent on intentionally vaguely defined lore. So while technically incorrect, very quick to grasp the general use case.

You may try now The in-game prompt to update returned, as well as the account and consequent downloads page on the site on my end. Didn't try to actually download yet, as I barely had a quick session before off to job... not nearly enough to fiddle with mods on a new version. But be sure to check out the budding modding-scene once you get the game running. Very user-friendly.