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Everything posted by MKMoose
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Just some questions about what comes beyond steel
MKMoose replied to DitaDataDita's topic in Discussion
If you're working with charcoal, the bellows don't really do much at the moment, until you need to go past the default temperature limit for quenching. They slightly increase the rate at which temperature rises and allow you to heat up the item further tobe able to work it for longer before having to put it back in the forge briefly, but both effects are not particularly significant. If you're working with brown or black coal, then the bellows are necessary for ironworking, but still only particularly useful once you need to increase the temperature above the maximum to reach the minimum for ironworking. I tested it recently and wanted to report it, and just as I was about to open my own issue, it was reported in #8365. -
Besides allowing to carry a spare temporal gear, its only purpose is to provide a very dim light. Not enough to really be practical, but in an occasional emergency it may be better than nothing.
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Something like this has been a known issue for a while now, as seen in #4433 or #7576. Unfortunately, as far as I know the only fix on your side is to spawn the elk back in via creative mode.
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Just some questions about what comes beyond steel
MKMoose replied to DitaDataDita's topic in Discussion
Fair enough, it would probably have been better for me to say that bronze could be better than iron for certain applications in terms of the ratio of end result to cost, which would still likely end up worse than iron when comparing the stats in isolation. It could also be better in some regards and worse in others, especially in the form of higher speed but lower durability (largely just for the sake of more interesting gameplay balance). To some extent you can see what that could look like with tin bronze and bismuth bronze, of which the latter has higher durability in everything besides armor, which makes it outright better for tools where speed or damage doesn't matter (though it can be more expensive), while tin bronze tends to be more preferable for pickaxes, falxes, spears and the like. In the current balance the differences tend to be small enough to not matter most of the time, but exaggerating a bit for the sake of gameplay variety might not be a bad idea. Saving iron and continuing to use bronze for certain applications is just not something that I've found useful in my own gameplay, because getting fire clay and iron ore is a progression gate more than it is a significant cost for every iron ingot. Once you have all the resources, then even manually working blooms can often be more worthwhile in terms of the reward to effort ratio than using bronze. That at least goes for the tools that can't be cast directly - maybe bronze could be useful for some things like axes or shovels, though personally I haven't found it really worthwhile regardless due to how scarce the alloying elements for bronze can sometimes be and how large the jump to iron is. The durability is usually roughly doubled, and the improvement to mining speed is typically ~20-35% with the only notable exception being the shovel at ~10% (and that's not counting quenching with 1.22, which done once at no risk gives a nearly free buff on top of this, further widening the gap). At that point, I feel like the only real purpose of bronze once you have iron is for tools that you know you're not gonna use past the durability of a single bronze item anyways, but frankly, that's kind of a lame purpose. Either way, the main idea is to make the transition to the Iron Age more gradual with only inefficient, small-scale production at first, and this is just one small component which could additionally contribute but isn't really integral to it. I don't find this to be the case at all, though we'll see if it changes further before stable. In the current balance, a single risk-free quenching with a fairly small up-front investment into bellows (3x nails and 6x leather for the small ones) should allow to increase the power (i.e. damage and mining speed) of most ferrous tools by 10%, or durability by 20% when covered in clay. If you take out the iron out of the bloomery fast enough then you don't even have to use bellows for at least one or two tools, if going for a power increase (even easier with meteoric iron or repurposed bits since you get ingots directly - I feel like that should be changed eventually). To me, this is just further incentive to make the jump to iron as fast as possible. Maybe I'm optimizing a little too much, but either way it's an added buff on top of everything else, while the baseline time and cost of ironmaking are nearly unaffected. -
Just some questions about what comes beyond steel
MKMoose replied to DitaDataDita's topic in Discussion
Doesn't seem to be too many ways to do that, realistically. The simplest solution in cold-working and annealing would probably be a good idea, in line with quenching and tempering for ferrous metals, though it could also end up just being the default for all bronze tools and not a way to extend the Bronze Age. There could be a number of sub-types of bronze alloys (a fourth one made with arsenic may not be a terrible idea, and it may be worth to allow using different ratios), each of which could be better for a different range of applications and potentially similar to iron in certain cases, making it more useful to invest into multiple types of bronze with different alloying elements instead of rushing to iron. It could end up a bit complex, though. As things stand, though, iron unlocks a significant chunk of progression, and developing iron would probably be a more worthwhile idea either way. The argument about the durability and strength of iron is kind of difficult to realize in-game, because almost the entirety of it is reliant on metalworking knowledge and the processing methods used. The only real way to translate that into gameplay would be to introduce a couple types of iron of different quality based on how it's smelted, whether some additional flux is added, and whether it's wrought by hand or using a helve, and I don't know if we want to go that route. It may be a decent idea to introduce bog iron as a source of small quantities of iron for inefficient smelting in bloomeries to reduce the hard gating of progression. At the same time the cost of processing iron blooms into iron could be increased, to drive players to keep using bronze for longer until they progress enough to reduce the workload of iron processing. Also, a significant addition which I would expect to be introduced eventually is cast iron alongside a blast furnace, which would unlock a range of cast iron items, including tools (for certain purposes similar to wrought iron, but very brittle so not useful for many other applications) which could be produced in potentially greater quantity than even bronze, as well as higher-quality wrought iron if that is of interest. It could serve as a second progression milestone related to iron, with a bunch of other unlocks like cast iron stoves and cookware. An extra addition which I would be interested in would be rust, which would degrade power of ferrous tools if not oiled after use and would need to be removed at a cost of durability. Increased need for regular maintenance (though only when putting tools away in this case) could be a neat tradeoff for unrealistically high durability, though admittedly it probably wouldn't be the most popular change. Bronze has much higher Vickers hardness than wrought iron and can be even somewhat higher than some steels, which generally means superior resistance to wear and generally higher durability where the use case favors it (at least over the iron more typical to the Middle Ages - modern iron and steels are much better). I feel like it would be ideal to discard the idea of tiers to some extent, and make bronze outright better than iron for some applications and worse for others. This way, deciding which metal to use would be less about "pick the best tier of metal that you have" and more about "pick the most suitable metal for this specific purpose". Don't wanna make a whole mess of the system, of course, but for example bronze knives and garden tools could be better than iron equivalents (still worse than steel, to be clear). -
To some extent that is already the case, since it's easy to feed domesticated animals until they reach good weight, whereas wild animals will generally be at the weight you find them at, which can be especially low in the winter months (or at least it's supposed to). You'd probably have to set up a trough in the wild to somehow feed them, and most people don't bother as far as I can tell. Some changes with generations would make a lot of sense, though, even if only visual - sheep more wooly, boars less hairy and providing more fat (in part to make them stand out from other animals, over which they don't really anything unique), and so on. I personally think animal husbandry could be reworked to require more regular feeding and generally more effort to achieve proper results, which could counterbalance an increase to animal yields. And that might require changes to farming as well. As it stands, animal husbandry largely functions as a nutrition type conversion of sorts, but the costs beyond the initial setup end up being almost irrelevant in many cases due to the abundance of food once a good farm is set up, and for the most part it only takes a whole bunch of waiting. And in the case of chickens you don't even really have to wait particularly long for anything.
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Try this command: /giveitem lore-book-aged-orangebrown 1 s[] { category: "jonas" } You can replace "jonas" with "villager", "tobias", "research" and "diaries". Not sure what that is equivalent to in-game. There doesn't seem to be a way to get specific lore, just these five categories.
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I stupidly didn't verify the one thing that has changed in the new update, that's on me. The same bug that causes handbook crashes seems to cause affected recipes (including most if not all recipes that use pelts) to not resolve, so that specific recipe for the sling isn't functional.
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Just some questions about what comes beyond steel
MKMoose replied to DitaDataDita's topic in Discussion
If I recall correctly, Tyron has said relatively recently that they don't really have any plans for anything beyond steel, and at most they may add some specialized steels for certain narrow use cases. The problem of sorts with all of these materials (stainless steel, specialized alloy steel, a variety of other stuff), is that most of them only became known and used in the late 19th or 20th century, often due to rising need for advanced materials for new machinery functioning in increasingly demanding conditions. That especialy applies to the more modern materials that you've listed here, which are generally used for very specialized purposes, many of which aren't in the game and almost certainly will never be added, except maybe in very limited capacity as part of some Jonas tech shenanigans. This kind of metallurgy is generally a modern thing driven by modern needs, so implementing something like that while at this point we still have almost no signs of the Industrial Revolution in the game would be frankly quite absurd. Granted, there's already a bunch of somewhat anachronistic features like chromium tanning or the cementation furnace, but they're not that modern. -
Should be possible to replace the piece of leather with a piece of linen or a small/medium pelt. Tested on 1.22.0-pre.3.
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Keep in mind that the 25% increase is in just one set of sails, but a single metal windmill rotor can take 10 sets of large sails, making the full rotor's power equivalent to 2.5 small sails (granted, at a flax equivalent of 4 small rotors, as well as 12 iron ingots - a very large cost for unimpressive returns). I would personally want the power from a single set of large sails increased to at least 40 kN up from 25 kN, considering how much space it takes up and the material investment necessary to build it, but for now we're still early into the prerelease and there's a lot of space for adjustments. The large windmill costs more than 4x as much as the small one (including 12 iron ingots, which is also a progression gate), visually has ~4x the effective sail area, and it takes up 8x the volume or 4x the area if you want to avoid wind turbulence. I think it would be quite reasonable to at least give it 4x the power as well instead of the current 2.5x, because what's the point otherwise? With the current balance, you can build a small quad windmill for a lower cost and just 20% lower return in spite of the turbulence, and optionally make it ugly and sprawled-out to avoid turbulence for 60% higher return than a single large windmill. As an additional note: the two windmill sizes currently have the same rotational speed, so I think it would make a lot of sense to make the large windmill rotate slower, but with significantly higher torque (due to a longer lever that the force is applied on), to introduce a more meaningful difference between them. In the current implementation of wind turbulence, a quad windmill needs 10 blocks of separation between the central axle and each rotor to avoid the penalty. Kind of hideous. I feel like the simplest way to improve wind turbulence is to make the minimum distance between windmills greater along the axis of rotation, as well as make the turbulence strength fall off with distance and accumulate with larger numbers of windmills. These changes would further encourage side-by-side windmills while disincentivizing hyperoptimization, and would also make the whole mechanic more approachable.
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Storing gears (both rusty and temporal) in vanilla or modded.
MKMoose replied to Broccoli Clock's topic in Questions
Purposeful Storage seems to include a pretty neat rack for storing rusty and temporal gears. The new cabinets aren't very space-efficient, but I love that now at least we have a proper way to display items. -
An iron hatch door is what you need in the vanilla game - as much is stated in the in-game handbook. There's a couple things you may want to check: Is the coke oven constructed correctly, with the right materials (fireclay or refractory bricks)? Are you using the right coal for it (brown or black coal)? Anthracite or charcoal won't work, though it doesn't seem to be mentioned explicitly in the handbook. Does the oven work correctly in the vanilla game for you? If it works in vanilla and not modded, then it's likely that one of your mods is causing it to break. If the coke oven is functioning correctly, it should have a bunch of gray smoke particles coming out from the top.
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If you do intend to look for malachite, keep in mind the quirk of the current prospecting system that malachite readings will not be higher than "decent" outside of certain edge cases, and "poor" malachite readings are absolutely good enough to start mining ("very poor" can even be great if you have a 20-thick sedimentary layer, though you're gonna have to look at permille values then - I think more than 1 permille is a good rule of thumb in this specific case, though I'd have to double-check to be sure). As with most other deposits, but especially those that only occur in sedimentary rock, you'll generally want to search in flat, low-lying plains or deserts. Loose surface chunks indicating near-surface deposits are possible and will be sufficient in the early game, but mining will generally be the primary way of finding larger quantities of malachite.
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They not gonna post devlogs any time soon:
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Should be possible to change through Client Area > Account > Player Name (direct link if you want).
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Alloy Filler to melt alloy nuggets with its ingredients
MKMoose replied to Topminator's topic in Suggestions
It would be quite trivial to implement, with practically zero added complexity. And I say this having read through the code responsible for alloy recipe matching. It would be as simple as excluding the output alloy from recipe matching and only adding it back in when calculating the output quantity. Allowing to use alloys in other alloys (e.g. brass in bismuth bronze, electrum in black bronze) would be a bit more annoying since alloys don't retain their ratios once smelted, which would allow to manipulate the ingredient ratios somewhat, and if not implemented carefully then also converting some resources into others at a 1:1 ratio and no cost besides time, fuel and some miscellaneous expenses like tongs. Preventing this fully would require to propagate that ratio from the new alloy bits across at least all items that can be crafted and broken back down into bits, and that is probably more effort than it's worth due to the current implementation of item stacks. A simpler implementation would work as well, though. Nuggets of the same metal can be mixed freely in the crucible, because it only depends on the metal in the nugget and not the nugget itself. Iron in the bloomery is a different story, though. The bloomery and iron smelting are currently much simpler in implementation than the crucible and alloy smelting, which means that it's not currently possible to mix different iron nuggets. Still pretty trivial to implement, because it would be enough to give it a few extra inventory slots and add a small bit of logic to manage the slots appropriately, keeping in mind that it would need to check the smelted stack ID against the first item that was added. -
Alcohol hasn't seen practically any use as fuel until the 19th century or so, from what I've seen, and even then it tended to be mixed with other stuff and not used by itself. Unless it's some sort of Jonas tech portable stove shenanigans, this particular use doesn't make much sense for VS. And even if you do add something like this, it would have to be absurdly efficient to be worthwhile, considering the investment of time and resources that goes into making aqua vitae in the first place. As for sprinkling alcohol over a fire, that tends to be dangerous. You're gonna cook yourself or your house much easier this way. Now this is a pretty cool use I can get behind, though realistically it's also a pretty modern thing as far as I can tell, and more about spraying produce with ethanol than adding it to food. Regardless, it would make enough sense and serve as a neat gameplay incentive for food preservation - use some of your fruit or grain to extend the shelf life of other stuff. I think I would point to three primary ideas that would be most beneficial for the game and quite sufficient to give alcohol a distinct spot in the game: modify the effects of intoxication to make it in any real way useful to drink alcohol on its own, and make the effects less instant and less annoying, primarily with increased pain tolerance, potentially similar to the SlowTox mod as mentioned by @LadyWYT, and including a couple of its other improvements like smaller serving size and ability to sleep through intoxication, allow adding alcohol to soups and stews in small quantities, potentially instead of water, more for the sake of it than for any specific purpose, and perhaps for longer shelf life, potentially add miscellaneous uses for strong alcohols and aqua vitae in the context of other mechanics like herbalism or combat (as a solvent and due to its flammability respectively).
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I would propose a slightly different implementation. Instead of directly implementing manure, add a block like straw bedding (4 pixel thick layer, potentially stackable like snow). It could be used as decoration anywhere, but would have a special function when placed near animals. Over time, when medium to large animals are nearby, they would convert this block into something like dirty bedding, which could then be picked up and used as fertilizer directly or composted, or alternatively used as fuel, perhaps only after drying out. Obtaining compost this way from animals would be more intentional and interactive, and a bit less gross, if somewhat less realistc. The straw bedding by itself would be a neat decoration as well (historically it was more for sleeping, but we have the straw bed already), and animals could also prefer sleeping on bedding over bare ground. I'll also mention that fertilizer obtained this way should ideally provide different nutrients from regular compost, to create an incentive to feeding animals (which would presumably increase production of manure) instead of just composting all crops the normal way. A direct implementation of manure, as mentioned by @LadyWYT, would make a lot of sense when bovids and other large herbivores are implemented. Keep in mind that realistic applications of nitraries were heavily driven by the demand for gunpowder which we don't yet have in the game (at least not counting blasting powder). It would be a cool addition regardless, and it could also go well in line with my suggestion that fertilizer obtained from animals should be different from regular compost. Nitre beds seem to be a relatively modern and slightly more complex thing (here's LeConte's "Instructions for the Manufacture of Saltpetre" from 1862), but a simpler and much easier to implement process lies in simply burying manure in the ground, watering it and waiting until saltpeter comes up to the surface, then also boiling the product collected from the ground to purify and concentrate it (as on the Wikipedia page for saltpetre works).
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Aye, cattails have a minimum temperature requirement of 3 C, so elk will almost never spawn anywhere close to them. Pretty useful correlation. On top of that, oak, birch, maple and almost all flowers in the game also only appear around freezing or warmer average yearly temperature, so if you're finding oak, birch, maple or any flowers except ghost pipe, then it's generally too warm. On the other end, when you're finding arctic supplies, or when you can't find most vegetation (no tall grass, as well as no ghost pipe, no eagle fern etc.), then it's usually too cold. If there's no mushrooms and sticks in forests, then it's way too cold. Though, if using any correlations of this kind, always keep in mind that the temperature can vary quite a lot even at just a couple hundred blocks of distance, so it's important to always take it with a grain of salt.
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The most common culprit is the temperature range, and elk spawn in cold but not subpolar climates. On top of that: not completely dry, not too much forest or shrubs, and usually in highlands, not near the sea level. Or, if you want the exact conditions:
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I can't seem to notice the stated problem in that screenshot, but if it's actually there, then that seems like a bug which you might want to report on the issue tracker. This functionality is being added in 1.22.
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Less random translocators and resource/ruin generation tweaking
MKMoose replied to Galaxial's topic in Suggestions
I like the idea broadly, though I would focus on some different design goals. The main thing I want to mention is that any towns and settlements will inevitably form at key points of interest, but those points of interest are part of the world and can't really be modified. By which I mean, a mining village might appear where people find an iron deposit, but an iron deposit shouldn't be generated just because the game decided that a mining village should be in the middle of an area where there's no iron otherwise. So I would focus on some of these kinds of relationships, like large towns appearing predominantly near rivers and oceans, farm ruins in fertile fields, hunting lodges and logging sites generating in forests, mining villages appearing in areas rich in ore deposits - intuitive connections that the player could ideally make out by just taking a glance at the ruins. Granted, most ruins are really old lore-wise, so I'm not sure that much would be left of them. Many would still end up as nondescript rubble, regardless of what they were used for before. That's highly dependent on what you mean by "loose conditions", but ore deposits can have pretty specific requirements, and they use ore maps. These ore maps could be utilized during structure generation to influence the frequency of certain types of ruins. There is already a system which takes a couple small ruin structures and places them as small village-like clusters. I think it shouldn't be difficult to expand it to generate a greater variety of bigger village or town ruins and more spread-out buildings connected with roads or whatnot. That said, I wouldn't expect a significant level of detail from them outside of manually constructed story locations, unless they receive a similar level of effort to the in-development procedural dungeons. Might want to include a translocator building in some of these large structures, while at it.- 4 replies
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Given the lore, it would be really cool to include man-made tunnels as part of the cave generation algorithm, whenever if ever it gets overhauled (Tyron has said that he would like to revisit it eventually), which would allow to save points of interest at the ends of these tunnels, at junctions or at other key points, that could be later utilized when placing structures. Tying all these systems together in the right ways could result in some very immersive cave and tunnel generation that actually looks like it was made with a purpose and not just plopped in randomly by a random generation algorithm. This kind of also ties into this other thread, with the idea to generate more clustered structures near natural points of interest.
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In-game they are already required for bear hide armor and the recurve bow, they can be used in place of sticks for slightly more durable stone knives and axes, and there's also the bone flute. Realistically, broth (first cooked by itself with bones or not, then used in soups instead of water) and bone glue (alternative to pitch glue) could serve as pretty significant uses for bones that would fit quite neatly into the game. On top of that, bone tools and weapons could be significant for the Stone Age, tool handles could be relevant all the way into the endgame (though it would ideally require a tool handle system in the first place). Bones could also be used for some miscellaneous items like buttons and beads for clothing and jewelry as well as decorative figures or ornaments. All of that could eventually be encompassed into bone carving as a properly developed mechanic, which would fit neatly alongside woodcarving, though I wouldn't expect it to be added anytime soon unless some priorities change, since 1.22 and 1.23 already have quite a lot of content planned. Seems to be made in a process very similar to bone glue, but with a bunch of extra refining. Culinarily, it hasn't been significant historically outside of specific meals where it occurs naturally through the use of certain ingredients like fish heads. It apparently only really became more common in the 19th century.