weather Weather Immersion Improvements

[-Glue-]

The weather system is one of my favorite aspects of Vintage Story. Seeing the clouds and knowing they have actual impact on the gameplay. Being able to see or hear distant lightning and know I am about to be hit by a storm. Its something I have always wanted in a game like this, and I absolutely love it!
That being said, I have had some ideas throughout my first playthrough on how to potentially improve it. This is a bit of a list, but they all impact the weather system directly.

Distant Rain Sheets:
Currently, you have no real way to tell if a distant cloud is just a cloud, or if it is currently raining underneath. Having visual sheets of rain under distant rainclouds could both improve immersion, and hold gameplay benefits, such as planning travel routs around weather.
This could be as simple as a flat animated texture, or multiple large particles falling from rain clouds above a certain precipitation threshold. Which would always face the player, and fade out as you get near, or enter the rain, to avoid visual issues.

Darker Clouds:
The more intense a storm, or dense a cloud is, the darker the underside should appear. This would give more visual indication of how large a distant storm is, while also giving more variety to weather patterns. If you get caught in a super heavy rain storm, daylight could become nearly as dark as night.
(Also, dark ominous clouds in the distance on an otherwise calm day are a vibe)

Snow Drift:
Ever notice how snow never builds up under blocks, even if they are dozens of meters above? Having a system that can detect how far above an overhang is, and allowing snow to build up underneath it depending on that height, could stop the weird, large grass patches under trees and overhangs during winter. Essentially, the higher the overhang is from the ground, the further in the snow can reach, and the deeper it can form under said overhang. (Not sure how well I explained this one, if necessary, I can make a visual aid.)
This could also affect rain to a lesser degree, so your crops don’t get blocked from being watered due to a single leaf block on a cliff 100 blocks above the farm.


Hopefully I got my thoughts across well enough! I have a bunch of other ideas from my time playing. Such as ideas on more immersive crafting features, or disease and injury systems, or just a bunch of QoL ideas. All of which I may make separate posts on in the future, once I get my thoughts more organized!

[AdrianNumbers]

On 8/22/2024 at 3:23 AM, -Glue- said:

Distant Rain Sheets:
Currently, you have no real way to tell if a distant cloud is just a cloud, or if it is currently raining underneath. Having visual sheets of rain under distant rainclouds could both improve immersion, and hold gameplay benefits, such as planning travel routs around weather.
This could be as simple as a flat animated texture, or multiple large particles falling from rain clouds above a certain precipitation threshold. Which would always face the player, and fade out as you get near, or enter the rain, to avoid visual issues.

I absolutely agree , this is something the game lacks,  we should be able to know the storm is coming from well before it hits, just by clues from game visuals , and im not talking only about the mundane storms.

On 8/22/2024 at 3:23 AM, -Glue- said:

Snow Drift:

Ever notice how snow never builds up under blocks, even if they are dozens of meters above? Having a system that can detect how far above an overhang is, and allowing snow to build up underneath it depending on that height, could stop the weird, large grass patches under trees and overhangs during winter. Essentially, the higher the overhang is from the ground, the further in the snow can reach, and the deeper it can form under said overhang. (Not sure how well I explained this one, if necessary, I can make a visual aid.)
This could also affect rain to a lesser degree, so your crops don’t get blocked from being watered due to a single leaf block on a cliff 100 blocks above the farm.

Ok so first, rain and snow are two dramaticly different things from game perspective. 

Water first because i think its easier, since i have no idea how its made to work in code there are two ways to get the same result depending on what does the actual calculations. 1.If its Farmland blocks then they should first detect if they have clear sky view if not they check the 8 blocks around(the same y level) if at least one of those has clear sky view the block without it will "leech" off some rain. 2. If its calculated from rain perspective then just make it so it works on 3x3x2 , 3x3 from above centered on the block the rain hits and second layer being below it.

As for snow, the first part could be the same as rain so any one block deep overhang would now have snow under, second part could be enabling snow to spill over to other blocks in similar way as charcoal does, but only when the sky view is blocked. Also i think that if something like that is added to game the snow that has overhang above it should melt slower, i mean need higher temperature to melt, just for that added immersion.

[LadyWYT]

On 8/21/2024 at 8:23 PM, -Glue- said:

Distant Rain Sheets:

Love it! I'd probably opt for the flat texture rather than multiple animated particles. Distant rain sheets don't really have a lot of noticeable movement unless there's a strong wind pushing them around. A flat texture that fades in/out depending on how hard it's raining would probably be better for performance as well as look more believable.

On 8/21/2024 at 8:23 PM, -Glue- said:

Darker Clouds:
The more intense a storm, or dense a cloud is, the darker the underside should appear. This would give more visual indication of how large a distant storm is, while also giving more variety to weather patterns. If you get caught in a super heavy rain storm, daylight could become nearly as dark as night.
(Also, dark ominous clouds in the distance on an otherwise calm day are a vibe)

It's kind of already somewhat of a thing in-game; storm clouds have darker undersides. I think sometimes you can see lightning as well. I do agree though, the effects could be better, especially in regards to the lightning. It can be a little hard to notice unless you're really paying attention, and while storm clouds are usually darker they still blend in somewhat with the other clouds. There's also no way to really tell if it's actually pouring rain or not until you get close.

On 8/21/2024 at 8:23 PM, -Glue- said:

Snow Drift:
Ever notice how snow never builds up under blocks, even if they are dozens of meters above? Having a system that can detect how far above an overhang is, and allowing snow to build up underneath it depending on that height, could stop the weird, large grass patches under trees and overhangs during winter. Essentially, the higher the overhang is from the ground, the further in the snow can reach, and the deeper it can form under said overhang. (Not sure how well I explained this one, if necessary, I can make a visual aid.)
This could also affect rain to a lesser degree, so your crops don’t get blocked from being watered due to a single leaf block on a cliff 100 blocks above the farm.

I do like the idea of snow drifts, or the possibility of deeper snow in general. However, snow certainly shouldn't be deeper under overhangs and other sheltered areas; it defeats the purpose of having sheltered areas and isn't particularly realistic. Snow drifts can form under what would be a sheltered area sometimes, but where the drifts end up forming depends entirely on wind direction and strength. The biggest drifts will form in areas that the wind can funnel a lot of snow into, that also has some sort of structure the snow can pile up against.

That being said, I'm guessing you more meant implementing a maximum height that a block can be before it stops qualifying as shelter, in which case I mostly agree. I'd still expect the value to be fairly generous in order to account for the taller trees, but a couple of blocks suspended 50+ blocks in the air probably shouldn't be blocking all precipitation from reaching the ground underneath them.

[Thorfinn]

Should be by baby steps. Certainly the aeolian effects. You can model pretty much anything, true, it's just a matter of processing power. Given that computing power is limited, what's the best use? Darker clouds, maybe, if I were actually making any decisions based on what I see. And since we have just the one wind direction...

Aeolian effects are complex. Most modeling is still done physically, by constructing wind tunnels and seeing what results from various geometries. The Cliff's Notes version is that drifts form where wind speed drops (obvious on reflection), but those dropped particles (snow, sand) now affect the geometry and thus wind velocities. While they can form against the lee side of a building, drifts on the windward side tend to be several feet away from the structure. And you really do not want to model a hedgerow or thicket. Particularly not for everything sticking up within a thousand block radius. 

[-Glue-]

19 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Aeolian effects are complex. Most modeling is still done physically, by constructing wind tunnels and seeing what results from various geometries. The Cliff's Notes version is that drifts form where wind speed drops (obvious on reflection), but those dropped particles (snow, sand) now affect the geometry and thus wind velocities. While they can form against the lee side of a building, drifts on the windward side tend to be several feet away from the structure. And you really do not want to model a hedgerow or thicket. Particularly not for everything sticking up within a thousand block radius. 

I don't mean detailed wind simulations. Think like this. So know how blocks only get wet or covered in snow when in direct view of the sky? Imagine those blocks check to see if surrounding blocks can also see the sky. If they can't, it detects how high the occluding block is. The obscured floor block could then sorta leech precipitation from that nearby sky view block, at a value based on the occluding blocks height. The higher up it is, the more precipitation the floor gets.
Valid occluded floor blocks could also search for how far away a true sky view block is, with the distance determining their value of leeching. Meaning, the higher the occluding block is, the more precipitation that floor block gets, and the further it is from a true sky view block, the less it gets.

Of course, if you wanted to simulate snow drift building up against a building, you could have snow blocks detect if it is near a wall, with the height of the wall determining how tall the nearby snow blocks can get.
I don't actually know anything about code, but am obsessed with gamedev stuff. So hopefully this makes at least a little sense? This is more intended to be an idea that people with actual code knowledge can interoperate in a more performant, and functional way.
 

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

It's kind of already somewhat of a thing in-game; storm clouds have darker undersides. I think sometimes you can see lightning as well. I do agree though, the effects could be better, especially in regards to the lightning. It can be a little hard to notice unless you're really paying attention, and while storm clouds are usually darker they still blend in somewhat with the other clouds. There's also no way to really tell if it's actually pouring rain or not until you get close.

Yes, it seems to already be a thing. I just think it should be able to get darker. At the moment, clouds can seemingly be, at most, a very light grey. For more severe storms, they should be able to get to a dark grey. I am not sure how they calculate for weather and clouds, but if they have a precipitation % or a density %, those stats could contribute to how dark a cloud looks.

[Maelstrom]

On 8/24/2024 at 3:28 AM, AdrianNumbers said:

I absolutely agree , this is something the game lacks,  we should be able to know the storm is coming from well before it hits, just by clues from game visuals , and im not talking only about the mundane storms.

Not necessarily.  I live in an area where quite a bit of the time you don't know it's going to rain until water is splattering off your head.  Other times you can see a dark curtain under the cloud as it approaches.  To me VS weather is realistic enough.