Why is this game being praised?

[Dilan Rona]

shortest period after the character selection screen and my first death on a new map is still close to 2 seconds, before being ripped to shreds by a pack of wolves. Respawned, tried to run, and died in 5. spawned again, and i bolted over a hill. accross a river, and settled on a small island in the middle of a lake nearby. spent 2 weeks there on that island, just learning the basic mechanics, making sure my slice of island was lit, and making the occational forage for wood, and food (didnt discover cooking, much less anything clay then yet).

[QueenGeeBee]

Because its a good game, and calling it 5 dollar shovel-ware is absurd. /thread

[CastIronFabric]

20 hours ago, marmarmar34 said:

Rimworld does have an end goal to obtain, but a colony going out in a ridiculous blaze of glory can be pretty entertaining. Fortresses in dwarf fortress are doomed to fail, but their ruins exist to further deepen the lore of your world. 

In VS, it's just you versus the elements. Unless you're playing hardcore, the only thing you really risk is your potential productivity. It's absolutely awful going through winter without a decent stock of flax. Windmills are a huge milestone when it comes to progression, and gobble up stacks of linen just to be adequately productive. 

So while the degree for failure is significantly different, your fun hinders on you making the best of your time.

no

Making mistakes because one does zero research in those games is far more expensive and harsh than in Vintage Story and I am not going to get into a conversation on how that fact is 'more fun'. I will just stick to its more expensive and harsh. I am also not going to get into a conversation on what has 'a goal' or 'not has a goal' nor how 'a goal' would affect what we are talking about here regarding going in blind or how 'loosing stuff is fun

and for reference this is the exact quote I am refering to:

Quote

This game doesn't have the whole "losing is fun" stuff games like dwarf fortress and rimworld have

 

Edited January 19 by CastIronFabric

[marmarmar34]

9 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

no

Making mistakes because one does zero research in those games is far more expensive and harsh than in Vintage Story and I am not going to get into a conversation on how that fact is 'more fun'. I will just stick to its more expensive and harsh. I am also not going to get into a conversation on what has 'a goal' or 'not has a goal' nor how 'a goal' would affect what we are talking about here regarding going in blind or how 'loosing stuff is fun

and for reference this is the exact quote I am refering to:

 

Agree to disagree ig

[Andael]

On 1/17/2026 at 2:10 PM, Sheepleclench said:

Fellas, I'm not looking to play minecraft. I'm still trying to set the settings to where I'm not pursued by bears and monsters at the same time on day one, or not spawn in a pit or on a mountain; The spawn template from Valheim comes to mind.

This complaint I can understand, and agree. The initial spawn is far too random. First time I played I started trapped inside trees+shrubs, couldn't see and just punched the branches to end up falling from a cliff edge because I was also on a steep cliff. It was not a great initial impression. I'd say more than half of my new-game starts have been "randomly unfortunate" -- start points I wouldn't want to introduce a new player with.

Valheim is an excellent game on so many counts, and its rather tame and mostly-controlled start in a generated world is pretty well done. However, the first time I played Valheim, before I could read the first thing Hugin had to say, I was being attacked by a neck. Having no time to figure out controls I ran -- no, walked because I didn't try L1 on the controller (I later came to appreciate the choice of L1) -- while testing buttons. But that brought a boar and a greyling to the train following me and I died. Respawned, only to die before the screen fully faded in... repeat for 10 minutes. I exited, saying "My Dad will not be able to play this", as it was the time of covid and I was looking for multiplayer games to play with family between cities.

I never had such an unlucky start again in Valheim, over the next 30-or-so(!) times I've played. But my point is that even with their pretty-well controlled start, there's enough random that someone's going to have a bad initial impression. As a game-developer myself, I often consider the statistical outliers. Relying on statistical norms as "typical player experience" ignores the fact that some un/fortunate players will experience the edge case -- and I consider how bad that can be.

 

[Foe Hammer]

Some of y'all have had some ROUGH spawns lol.

In all seriousness, this game can absolutely throw you for a loop of you go in blind and have played Minecraft. I was introduced from a RubixRaptor video (the "port Avalon" series lol) so when I first loaded in I knew it was different but not how so. I remember punching a tree and having a momentary mental blue screen when nothing happened .

I think it may be a good idea to have a slightly more "in your face" tutorial at first, so it is much harder to miss during everything being busy when you first start.

And if it is any consolation, my first base made me despite claystone for a while and I could not find copper to save my life.

[williams_482]

30 minutes ago, Andael said:

I never had such an unlucky start again in Valheim, over the next 30-or-so(!) times I've played. But my point is that even with their pretty-well controlled start, there's enough random that someone's going to have a bad initial impression. As a game-developer myself, I often consider the statistical outliers. Relying on statistical norms as "typical player experience" ignores the fact that some un/fortunate players will experience the edge case -- and I consider how bad that can be.

Avoiding problematic edge cases is really important, and I think something easy to forget for experienced players who are long past the point of deciding if they like the game. 

I've argued before that there should be controls on starting positions. At a minimum it should place you somewhere with relatively flat ground for at least a couple blocks in every direction, ideally in a flat region or perhaps in the middle of a gentle slope. That spawn point should not be inside of an obstruction like a bush. The rain level should be high enough that the immediately surrounding terrain is dirt, not gravel or sand. The game should also never generate hostile animals on the initial world load. This eliminates the dumbest, most obnoxious scenarios that a new player might get into, that could plausibly chase an otherwise happy customer away with just a couple minutes of frustration. 

You could go further with this, such as requiring that there is clay within 50 blocks, that the player spawns into a flat, medium rain level, non-forested zone with a forest close but not too close, that there are berry bushes immediately available, etc. That's surely more work and much less necessary (if even desirable), so I don't see the point. 

I've had pushback when suggesting something like this before, and I'm sympathetic with folks who really don't like this kind of handholding and quite appreciate the truly random start with it's occasional insane issues. I certainly wouldn't object to making a "controlled start" setting which would shut these protections on or off. But they should exist, and they should be on by default, for the sake of stoping unlucky newbies from jumping to unfortunate conclusions. 

Edited January 19 by williams_482

[CastIronFabric]

18 hours ago, Foe Hammer said:

Some of y'all have had some ROUGH spawns lol.

In all seriousness, this game can absolutely throw you for a loop of you go in blind and have played Minecraft. I was introduced from a RubixRaptor video (the "port Avalon" series lol) so when I first loaded in I knew it was different but not how so. I remember punching a tree and having a momentary mental blue screen when nothing happened .

I think it may be a good idea to have a slightly more "in your face" tutorial at first, so it is much harder to miss during everything being busy when you first start.

And if it is any consolation, my first base made me despite claystone for a while and I could not find copper to save my life.

I do not understand this 'going in blind' stuff. 

Imagine trying to make steel not know steel even exists in the game, or what the ratio is, or how the temperature for smelling works, etc etc etc.

People might say 'well its in the manual in the game'. Ok, and sitting on the couch watching a tutorial is somehow a crime but reading an manual in game is not?

sorry again, I must be off my meds with my side rant

[Forceous]

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

I do not understand this 'going in blind' stuff. 

Imagine trying to make steel not know steel even exists in the game, or what the ratio is, or how the temperature for smelling works, etc etc etc.

People might say 'well its in the manual in the game'. Ok, and sitting on the couch watching a tutorial is somehow a crime but reading an manual in game is not?

sorry again, I must be off my meds with my side rant

For this game it's actually really friendly with the ingame handbook and wiki.

I would understand if the game provides absolutely nothing, but the ingame handbook provides a great deal of information, and once you're actually stuck with something you can look it up in the wiki for more information or just a youtube tutorial.

 

Here is the thing, you don't understand the going in blind stuff but I'm starting to lean into that mentality, not because it makes things challenging, rather that it makes things more interesting and more fun for certain people. Ever since I started looking up guides and how to do stuff even on the simplest games, gaming for me has started becoming boring and for the last couple of years it reached an all time low to the point I could go months without touching a single game and I wouldn't even miss it.

I did a little bit of thought process and realized as a kid (when gaming was peak) I used to go in blind in any game. And so I started slowly incorporating that back in and gaming has started becoming fun again.

Edited January 20 by Forceous

[Forceous]

On 1/17/2026 at 10:10 PM, Sheepleclench said:

Thank you for all the kind replies.

Fellas, I'm not looking to play minecraft. I'm still trying to set the settings to where I'm not pursued by bears and monsters at the same time on day one, or not spawn in a pit or on a mountain; The spawn template from Valheim comes to mind. There is also seemingly no consistency what soil fertility is where, and biomes other than forest and mountain are indistinguishable on the map.

I like these kinds of games, but the learning curve here seems insidious. I am under the impression the in game guides do not provide enough information.

Still gonna try to enjoy the game. It's got that magic that minecraft used to have for me, the ambiance.

Any update? How are you finding it?

[CastIronFabric]

6 minutes ago, Forceous said:

For this game it's actually really friendly with the ingame handbook and wiki.

I would understand if the game provides absolutely nothing, but the ingame handbook provides a great deal of information, and once you're actually stuck with something you can look it up in the wiki for more information or just a youtube tutorial.

 

Here is the thing, you don't understand the going in blind stuff but I'm starting to lean into that mentality, not because it makes things challenging, rather that it makes things more interesting and more fun for certain people. Ever since I started looking up guides and how to do stuff even on the simplest games, gaming for me has started becoming boring and for the last couple of years it reached an all time low to the point I could go months without touching a single game and I wouldn't even miss it.

I did a little bit of thought process and realized as a kid I used to go in blind in any game. And so I started slowly incorporating that back in and gaming has started becoming fun again.

help me understand EXACTLY what 'going in blind' is. Because to me reading the handbook would be not going in blind.

I fail to see the radical difference between me reading a internet wiki or youtube to that of reading the handbook that would reach a level of being radically different to a level that one method would be described as 'going in blind' while the other would not.

So help me understand the parameters we are talking about.

[LadyWYT]

40 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

Ok, and sitting on the couch watching a tutorial is somehow a crime but reading an manual in game is not?

I think it's more a matter of how much hand-holding does a player wish to have when learning how to play a game, coupled with a trend for many modern multiplayer games to be very unfriendly to new players jumping in and figuring things out as they play. MMOs tend to be some of the worst offenders, where the established communities tend to tell newcomers to just go watch some videos and follow certain guides and then come back to actually play the game "properly". Sure, established players understandably get frustrated when new players don't understand the game, but...that's also part of the charm of playing a new game--figuring out how it works for yourself and using that knowledge to improve.

In the case of Vintage Story, it doesn't do much hand-holding at all and leaves the player to figure out for themselves how best to play. For players who like to figure out everything themselves and don't like being just told exactly how to do everything, going in blind and using the handbook to figure things out is quite attractive. Players who prefer more detailed explanations or visual tutorials though will likely prefer watching some video guides before diving in. Neither option is bad, but which is best depends on the player in question.

3 minutes ago, Forceous said:

Here is the thing, you don't understand the going in blind stuff but I'm starting to lean into that mentality, not because it makes things challenging, rather that it makes things more interesting and more fun for certain people. Ever since I started looking up guides and how to do stuff even on the simplest games, gaming for me has started becoming boring and for the last couple of years it reached an all time low to the point I could go months without touching a single game and I wouldn't even miss it.

I did a little bit of thought process and realized as a kid I used to go in blind in any game. And so I started slowly incorporating that back in and gaming has started becoming fun again.

Pretty much. Part of the fun of Vintage Story is conquering that steep learning curve, and it's something a player really only does once. The game is still fun after one becomes a veteran, but it's a different kind of fun, as you can only be a new player once.

 Personally, I'd only recommend watching videos if one is unsure whether the game is something they will enjoy, or if one prefers more detailed tutorials. Immediately getting told to go watch a bunch of videos before even playing the game is going to be a distinct turn off for many new players, especially since it suggests it's either not possible to learn with in-game resources, or too complex to figure out on one's own.

[Forceous]

5 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

help me understand EXACTLY what 'going in blind' is. Because to me reading the handbook would be not going in blind.

I fail to see the radical difference between me reading a internet wiki or youtube to that of reading the handbook that would reach a level of being radically different to a level that one method would be described as 'going in blind' while the other would not.

So help me understand the parameters we are talking about.

For me going in blind is not watching any YouTube content about the game at all (except for when seeing if it's a game you would enjoy/if it's worth buying)

Not watching any tutorials that just show you exactly how to do stuff easily and following it word for word.

Going in blind means that you figure things out by yourself, whether that is through searching and reading the wiki or ingame handbook and following the instructions on how to do it.

I could just watch a youtube tutorial and just copy everything which would save me time, but the reward and immersion you get from actually trying to figure things out yourself without having an idea how the end product looks like is quite nice. That's going in blind, no video guides, no tips and tricks. Just you and the game (with everything it provides to help).

Edited January 20 by Forceous

[Forceous]

12 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Immediately getting told to go watch a bunch of videos before even playing the game is going to be a distinct turn off for many new players, especially since it suggests it's either not possible to learn with in-game resources, or too complex to figure out on one's own.

For me it's just the fact that I won't enjoy the game to the fullest, I realized that I will just get bored of any game quite easily if I just consume all the content about it, unless it's a game I really love for many years.

I fell into that trap and I end up being bored from the game quite easily, but watching minimal amount of content, or sticking to the content of the early game just to see how others did stuff that you already did and managed to do basically prevents that feeling of "Well I already know what and how to do the next thing" and that just takes away from the experience. 

To put it simply for @CastIronFabric, for certain people, watching videos and tutorials beforehand for everything about the game would give the exact same feeling of getting spoiled of future events of a TV show or movie. If you already know exactly what's going to happen, are you really going to watch it? For certain people, it's almost the same thing, but for games.

Edited January 20 by Forceous

[CastIronFabric]

23 minutes ago, Forceous said:

any tutorials that just show you exactly how to do stuff easily and following it word for word.

 

that is exactly what the handbook does.

So its fair to say I still do not get it.

I understand the concept of not wanting to know a min/max way or best approach but I do not think its actually even possible to make steel by experimentation so you are going to have to have a step by step on that and it appears you are saying that you can do that from the manual, which is a contradiction. 

I am not trying to disagree I am just trying to fully understand the concept of 'going in blind' that is consistent and does not contradict. For making steel one can not realistically avoid a step by step guide, now if that step by step comes from the handbook or a internet game wiki on a second monitor I fail to see the radical difference between those two things

 

Edited January 20 by CastIronFabric

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

that is exactly what the handbook does.

So its fair to say I still do not get it.

I understand the concept of not wanting to know a min/max way or best approach but I do not think its actually even possible to make steel by experimentation so you are going to have to have a step by step on that and it appears you are saying that you can do that from the manual, which is a contradiction. 

I am not trying to disagree I am just trying to fully understand the concept of 'going in blind' that is consistent and does not contradict.

 

I would equate it to building a Lego set. You buy the set, then follow along with the directions as needed to put together a cool toy that you can display, play with, or take apart and reassemble as you see fit. That's the essence of the handbook to Vintage Story. Watching a bunch of videos explaining exactly how to do everything beforehand is more like an adult relative building the Lego set for you while you watch, and then letting you play with the result. Sure, it's still fun, but you don't really get the pleasure of figuring out how to do it yourself, even if the set is taken apart for you to build again. You've already seen it done, you know exactly what's coming next, so the process of building it isn't quite the same.

To use a different game as an example--one charm of playing Skyrim for the very first time is not knowing all the locations or characters or exactly how to acquire certain items or combat certain enemies. The Helgen tutorial teaches you the basics, and you can read through the skill trees and loading screen tips to figure out roughly what all you can do, but most of the learning comes from actually playing the game and interacting with the world. In contrast, if you watch someone else play through the game first, then you already know what kind of enemies are where, what to expect from certain quests, and where to look/what to do for specific goodies that might otherwise be missed. 

Basically, if you watch a set of videos to learn everything about the game before jumping in, the experience might be a lot smoother but it's going to be lacking in the discovery department since you're not actually interacting with the game to learn how to play. You can only be a new player once.

[CastIronFabric]

8 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

I would equate it to building a Lego set. You buy the set, then follow along with the directions as needed to put together a cool toy that you can display, play with, or take apart and reassemble as you see fit. That's the essence of the handbook to Vintage Story. Watching a bunch of videos explaining exactly how to do everything beforehand is more like an adult relative building the Lego set for you while you watch, and then letting you play with the result. Sure, it's still fun, but you don't really get the pleasure of figuring out how to do it yourself, even if the set is taken apart for you to build again. You've already seen it done, you know exactly what's coming next, so the process of building it isn't quite the same.

To use a different game as an example--one charm of playing Skyrim for the very first time is not knowing all the locations or characters or exactly how to acquire certain items or combat certain enemies. The Helgen tutorial teaches you the basics, and you can read through the skill trees and loading screen tips to figure out roughly what all you can do, but most of the learning comes from actually playing the game and interacting with the world. In contrast, if you watch someone else play through the game first, then you already know what kind of enemies are where, what to expect from certain quests, and where to look/what to do for specific goodies that might otherwise be missed. 

Basically, if you watch a set of videos to learn everything about the game before jumping in, the experience might be a lot smoother but it's going to be lacking in the discovery department since you're not actually interacting with the game to learn how to play. You can only be a new player once.

sorry but I do not see the difference between reading a handbook for a step by step and reading an online wiki for a step by step or watching youtube for step by step.

 

I DO however see the difference between reading a wiki on how to prospect or how to make steel and that of a MIN/MAX video . If I look up on line to read a wiki on how to make a cementation furnance its going to be the same text as if I looked it up in the manual and if you skip any of those steps you will not make steel either way.

additionally, it would take several real life days to successfully prospect for iron etc without knowing how the nodes work. That sounds like a super grind but that is a side note to what I am talking about above.

Edited January 20 by CastIronFabric

[Forceous]

7 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

sorry but I do not see the difference between reading a handbook for a step by step and reading an online wiki for a step by step or watching youtube for step by step.

The difference is that you don't need any thought process or any usage of mind when watching a youtube video and following it.

 

You can practically play any game and finish it without using your actual thought process by just following a YouTube video. Whilst reading a guide, keyword on reading actually makes you understand everything and lets you figure out everything without knowing how the end product would look like since it's just words, and following it and finishing the instructions give you the sense of pride and accomplishment.

In the other hand I can just boot up a YouTube video, follow it step by step without even listening to it, nor making sure I'm actually taking in why I should do this and that, and you would still get the final end product.

 

Edited January 20 by Forceous

[CastIronFabric]

3 minutes ago, Forceous said:

The difference is that you don't need any thought process or any usage of mind when watching a youtube video and following it.

I agree that watching or reading a Min/Max tutorial is different.

However, reading a wiki online that shows you all the steps to make steel and that of reading the in game manual on step by step on how to make steel is nearly exactly the same thing. You cant make steel by experimenting in this game unless you have real life years to try everything.

I understand the spirt of what you are saying but I categorize what you are trying to convey with that of Min/Max tutorials not exclusively how to tutorials

Edited January 20 by CastIronFabric

[Forceous]

1 minute ago, CastIronFabric said:

I agree that watching or reading a Min/Max tutorial is different.

However, reading a wiki online that shows you all the steps to make steel and that of reading the in game manual on step by step on how to make steel is nearly exactly the same thing. You cant make steel by experimenting in this game unless you have real life years to try everything.

I understand the spirt of what you are saying but I categorize what you are trying to convey with that of Min/Max tutorials not exclusively how to tutorials

I have edited my post with more detail

[Foe Hammer]

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

I do not understand this 'going in blind' stuff. 

Imagine trying to make steel not know steel even exists in the game, or what the ratio is, or how the temperature for smelling works, etc etc etc.

People might say 'well its in the manual in the game'. Ok, and sitting on the couch watching a tutorial is somehow a crime but reading an manual in game is not?

sorry again, I must be off my meds with my side rant

So my intention was not really to go in blind, but to experience the game with fresh eyes and try to figure it out. I have no issue using guides or the wiki, and I do not shame anyone for doing that.

I like to experiment, explore, figure things out, then try to understand how and why things work. Sometimes I just want to struggle and try to figure it out the hard way, but I do not think everyone should do the same. Personally, I see very little, if any, difference in using the in game handbook vs watching a tutorial.

My idea about making the tutorial pop-up a bit more noticeable is just an idea that might help players who are new.

[CastIronFabric]

Just now, Forceous said:

I have edited my post with more detail

now to be fair I think some things can be done without reading either the manual or online. Farming for example I think in theory could be figured out and I get that I really do. However many things are impossible to do without researching

[CastIronFabric]

1 minute ago, Foe Hammer said:

So my intention was not really to go in blind, but to experience the game with fresh eyes and try to figure it out. I have no issue using guides or the wiki, and I do not shame anyone for doing that.

I like to experiment, explore, figure things out, then try to understand how and why things work. Sometimes I just want to struggle and try to figure it out the hard way, but I do not think everyone should do the same. Personally, I see very little, if any, difference in using the in game handbook vs watching a tutorial.

My idea about making the tutorial pop-up a bit more noticeable is just an idea that might help players who are new.

ok, I get that. Its just my misunderstanding of the intent for the phrase 'going in blind'

[Forceous]

Just now, CastIronFabric said:

now to be fair I think some things can be done without reading either the manual or online. Farming for example I think in theory could be figured out and I get that I really do. However many things are impossible to do without researching

Nobody said you don't need to research, it's just the difference of how you research it. YouTube tutorials is the easy mode of researching.

[Forceous]

2 minutes ago, Foe Hammer said:

My idea about making the tutorial pop-up a bit more noticeable is just an idea that might help players who are new.

This, I haven't even realized there is a popup tutorial until hours after.