Why I set creature hostility to passive

[CastIronFabric]

Before I begin, I want to mention that setting Hostility to Passive does NOT make the monsters attack you if you attack them, animals yes, monsters no. I think this really needs to be fixed/changed. Also, some of you have read my main point on what I am about to say and I am not trying to be clever by hiding it to its conclusion, I am just presenting it in a different way that might resonate better.

So last night I played in Normal mode and this is what happened to me and why I do not do it nor will not do it unless on multiplayer:

---I got up in the morning and went to an area I was thinking of moving to as a permanent base, while looking around at various site locations I got attacked by a moose, then a bear. By the time the pig attacked me I had to go back to starter base and wait out because it was nightfall and I was starving. Guessing on the timeline I would guess I spent about 5 mins studying various areas in that location for a place to camp and about 30 mins avoiding, running and waiting back at my base. Mentally I basically lost that 5 mins of concentration on something I actually wanted to do and 30 mins doing something I did not want to do. Now I have to do the concentration all over again because that thought process was interrupted and not stored in my brains hard drive. (or actually kill that save file and never do this again)

I do not find this satisfying. I struggle to understand why people find that satisfying, I suspect there is an answer to that quandary but I have yet read one that is really very solid. I can manufacture one that might be solid and here why I think some people do in fact enjoy it, bear with me on this possible explanation, I do not consider it bullet proof and parts of it are actually rather hard for me to explain.

Mistake engagement with satisfaction

-- Engagement: The brain is engaged in a goal (reward) that it wants and its engaged in the challenge on how to get it. While in that state of mind WHAT the challenge is does not really matter that much, brain is given the possibility of a reward it wants and presented with a challenge on how to get it and the brain goes into full on GO mode and frankly gets obsessed about the goal without ever pausing to ask why its done this way in the first place or is it really as satisfying as it could be. In short making it hard to distinguish obsession with actual satisfaction. Caveat : I do this, so I want to make clear I am not suggesting I am somehow immune to doing the things I mention here, I absolutely do.

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If anyone has a better answer to why interruption of that level is satisfying I would love to hear it. Now on to how I think it could be done better. Now on to how I think it can be made better

 I would be shocked if there exists any study on the brain or psychology that shows interruption is satisfying, let alone how interruption breaking flow is somehow satisfying. I have heard convincing arguments that randomness is a critical role in game design (by game design I mean all games not just video games). However I think there is a point where interruption goes to far. 

I think a better solution to interruption and randomness, is planned events/locations. I have played games in which we plan, build, make, organize for weeks before going to a specific place to have our battles (and incidentally test 'randomness' while doing it) and there is no way random attacks come remotely close to that level of satisfying game play. I think far to many building games have a problem with interruptions in a bad way. For this game specifically I am not having it.

Thanks for listening

 

 

 

 

[V1ncent]

On 2/2/2026 at 12:13 AM, CastIronFabric said:

Before I begin, I want to mention that setting Hostility to Passive does NOT make the monsters attack you if you attack them, animals yes, monsters no. I think this really needs to be fixed/changed.

 

 

 

 

Is that the case? I have started my new world this Monday and in passive setting the drifter wandering in my base do fight back with throwing rock when I hit it with my spear.

[ArgentLuna]

Then survival sandboxes might not be the jam for you if the living world being the living world causes you such disruption.

[Thorfinn]

For me the fun is not in the interruptions themselves, but rather in selecting the best way to eliminate or at least minimize their impact on what I wanted to do. Fences, ladders, trees, even the oft-maligned nerdpole, whatever.

[Andael]

I've watched a lot of people play Vintage Story and Valheim. Some are like you CastIronFabric, in that they really want to focus on what they want to do and when the world upsets that... it really upsets them.

While I can understand that... It's not me at all. People are different. And it's not "mistaking engagement with satisfaction", like a person has to be broken or confused to have different preferences than yours.

I prefer a dynamic game-world with understandable challenges to my intentions. If I can outright make a plan and execute on it, that's quite boring for me. The masterstroke of Valheim, IMHO, is emergent gameplay -- you want to gather resources, explore, and make progress, but as you push on the environment, it pushes back. It adds tension, loss, victory... catalysts for epic stories!

The interruptions are frustrating to me. I don't like them when they happen. But if I just mine, mine, mine... that gets boring. And if there's nothing to challenge my activities in the world, it's just a sandbox to play in... which stays boring. So, while I'm annoyed when interrupted, I overall prefer that it does happen. Also, some of the best adventures are misadventures -- you don't plan them, but you struggle to overcome them.

 

[CastIronFabric]

10 hours ago, V1ncent said:

Is that the case? I have started my new world this Monday and in passive setting the drifter wandering in my base do fight back with throwing rock when I hit it with my spear.

well to be fair I am playing on a 1.20.12 which I forgot about. I did not alter the settings on Explorer mode either so maybe they have changed that finally

[CastIronFabric]

9 hours ago, ArgentLuna said:

Then survival sandboxes might not be the jam for you if the living world being the living world causes you such disruption.

what specific crafting/building/block game with tons of things to make and build would you suggest then?

Lets me honest here though, if you play a VS playthrough until end game, 90% of that game play when it comes to monsters is not exactly much of a challenge is it? its more like dealing with an ant problem in the kitchen or sometimes stopping what you are doing to sleep thru a storm, so clearly for people who play this game alot there is something else that they are compelled to. Lets be level here.

Edited February 4 by CastIronFabric

[CastIronFabric]

7 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

For me the fun is not in the interruptions themselves, but rather in selecting the best way to eliminate or at least minimize their impact on what I wanted to do. Fences, ladders, trees, even the oft-maligned nerdpole, whatever.

agreed, which is kind of my point.

Its the problem solving exercise that is enjoyable. So for example Planet Crafters, all the same amount of engagement, same amount of problem solving, etc. all have the same emotions of trying to solve a issue BUT..none of this 'interruption' stuff.

make sense?

[CastIronFabric]

6 hours ago, Andael said:

I've watched a lot of people play Vintage Story and Valheim. Some are like you CastIronFabric, in that they really want to focus on what they want to do and when the world upsets that... it really upsets them.

While I can understand that... It's not me at all. People are different. And it's not "mistaking engagement with satisfaction", like a person has to be broken or confused to have different preferences than yours.

I prefer a dynamic game-world with understandable challenges to my intentions. If I can outright make a plan and execute on it, that's quite boring for me. The masterstroke of Valheim, IMHO, is emergent gameplay -- you want to gather resources, explore, and make progress, but as you push on the environment, it pushes back. It adds tension, loss, victory... catalysts for epic stories!

The interruptions are frustrating to me. I don't like them when they happen. But if I just mine, mine, mine... that gets boring. And if there's nothing to challenge my activities in the world, it's just a sandbox to play in... which stays boring. So, while I'm annoyed when interrupted, I overall prefer that it does happen. Also, some of the best adventures are misadventures -- you don't plan them, but you struggle to overcome them.

 

1. I want to make this extremely clear, I am not suggesting "mistaking engagement with satisfaction" is a defect. I do it all the time myself.

2. have you played Planet Crafters by chance?

3. If you can, can you explain why you think interruptions specifically is a requirement for your desired game play as you have described and why it could not be manifested in a different way. So for example, a world can push back on your progress without interruptions. Interruptions are really only real time RNG within an RNG moment. Does that make sense? So for example, lets say you needed to do X in order to progress and that X had a TON of randomness to it and is highly unpredictable. What if that moment of randomness was a place you go to instead of a place that comes to you randomly. aka NOT RNG within RNG if that makes sense? can you elaborate because i am honestly  curious.

 

Basically what I am saying is this:  isnt Resonance Archive challenges better than randomly interrupting your work at base?

ADDED: I think its also helpful to distinguish that RNG and 'Interruption RNG' are two very different things within the context of my 'thesis'

Edited February 4 by CastIronFabric

[Broccoli Clock]

There is a phrase, "don't let perfection be the enemy of good", I feel it applies here.

[LadyWYT]

3 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

what specific crafting/building/block game with tons of things to make and build would you suggest then?

Modded Minecraft comes to mind. There's a mod for practically everything, as well as premade modpacks so you don't have to do all the technical work yourself. While Minecraft often gets called a survival game...it's really not. The world is static and doesn't change unless the player does something to change it. It's quite easy to do whatever you want in the game as a result, and one reason the game remains popular.

[CastIronFabric]

39 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Modded Minecraft comes to mind. There's a mod for practically everything, as well as premade modpacks so you don't have to do all the technical work yourself. While Minecraft often gets called a survival game...it's really not. The world is static and doesn't change unless the player does something to change it. It's quite easy to do whatever you want in the game as a result, and one reason the game remains popular.

how would a modded minecraft be different from a survial standpoint than just playing vintage story with hostile set to passive?

[LadyWYT]

2 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

how would a modded minecraft be different from a survial standpoint than just playing vintage story with hostile set to passive?

Because it's Minecraft, not Vintage Story. Minecraft has a static world that is at the player's mercy. Vintage Story has a dynamic world, where the player is at the mercy of the world rather than the other way around.

[CastIronFabric]

7 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Because it's Minecraft, not Vintage Story. Minecraft has a static world that is at the player's mercy. Vintage Story has a dynamic world, where the player is at the mercy of the world rather than the other way around.

sorry I asked this question and I should not have, it was my fault for bringing it up.

Lets please get back on the core topic of 'interruption', I do not want to discuss what is or is not survial game here in this thread. Again, my fault. thanks for understanding

 

[Thorfinn]

4 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

So for example Planet Crafters, all the same amount of engagement, same amount of problem solving, etc. all have the same emotions of trying to solve a issue BUT..none of this 'interruption' stuff.

make sense?

Sure. But I've kind of shelved Planet Crafter, and not just because they went with this silly pollution motif. (Yes, I know they had to come up with something different, but still, it's kinda weak sauce. Particularly since it can be cleaned in no time flat with your multi-tool.) The main reason was it was not all that interesting. Once I had optimized around the trivial randomness, every playthrough looked the same.

Moose and wolves are pretty easy to ignore, bears less so, but VS is in much the same place. Once you accept the fact that there is almost no difference between linen sacks and leather backpacks, limestone becomes almost a, "Why bother?" Unless you are handed limestone on a platter, you are better off racing to mining sacks than wasting time on leather. Sad to say, but bears are pretty much the only significant random factor left in the game, and not even that unless you play permadeath or at least limited respawns. No, not even ore. That just means you need to explore a little more widely, though not all that much. Iron is so massive that if you are in a decent location for it, it's just a matter of exploring a few caves.

[CastIronFabric]

9 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Sure. But I've kind of shelved Planet Crafter, and not just because they went with this silly pollution motif. (Yes, I know they had to come up with something different, but still, it's kinda weak sauce. Particularly since it can be cleaned in no time flat with your multi-tool.) The main reason was it was not all that interesting. Once I had optimized around the trivial randomness, every playthrough looked the same.

Moose and wolves are pretty easy to ignore, bears less so, but VS is in much the same place. Once you accept the fact that there is almost no difference between linen sacks and leather backpacks, limestone becomes almost a, "Why bother?" Unless you are handed limestone on a platter, you are better off racing to mining sacks than wasting time on leather. Sad to say, but bears are pretty much the only significant random factor left in the game, and not even that unless you play permadeath or at least limited respawns. No, not even ore. That just means you need to explore a little more widely, though not all that much. Iron is so massive that if you are in a decent location for it, it's just a matter of exploring a few caves.

I am reading your reply and struggling a bit to put it all together could you do me a favor and maybe number all of this so i can put it together as it relates to what you are replying to

I am not the best at reading comprehension or conveying concepts to others to be fair. My underling point is, dont you think you can have the same level of engagement and excitement WITHOUT having interuptions on your path

Edited February 4 by CastIronFabric

[Thorfinn]

What I'm saying is without the "interruptions", the game is formulaic. Too many of the game loops have exactly the same "correct" answer. Without "interruptions, the major difference between playthroughs is only what kind of bronze gets me to iron.

[CastIronFabric]

7 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

What I'm saying is without the "interruptions", the game is formulaic. Too many of the game loops have exactly the same "correct" answer. Without "interruptions, the major difference between playthroughs is only what kind of bronze gets me to iron.

I would say the following games have just as much engagement, adrenaline pumping excitement with no interruptions

Stationeers, Planet Crafters and even Kerbal Space Program while in flight, maybe not because of the possiblity of death but because you are presented with a challenge that as a good cadence feedback loop.

 

Which is my point, I believe that it is possible to create the same positive experience without interruptions and thus reduce the negative, ADHD inducing side effects.

ADDED: oh and as a side note, are we really making the suggestion that the randomness of drifters and TP storms in this game is really what makes it awesome sauce? I mean lets step back a bit maybe

 

Edited February 4 by CastIronFabric

[CastIronFabric]

3 hours ago, Broccoli Clock said:

There is a phrase, "don't let perfection be the enemy of good", I feel it applies here.

I think that is kinda what I am saying.

I forget an important dimension to this proposition I am giving. Any counter view on what I am suggesting would almost require to come from a position that the current RNG interruptions and its storms are actually one of its best features..but is it?

 

More I think about it the more I see the argument I am making is that going to the  resonance archives for adventure is a better game design that adventure randomly coming to you even if you are trying to go to the bathroom (so to speak)

Edited February 4 by CastIronFabric

[Thorfinn]

36 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

I would say the following games have just as much engagement, adrenaline pumping excitement with no interruptions

Stationeers, Planet Crafters and even Kerbal Space Program

Of those, I've only extensively played Planet Crafter, all releases, and I find it lacking in engagement. Kerbal bored me to tears. I gave it a dozen or so hours, and when it still lacked anything interesting, I could easily imagine how little replay value it would have.

Kind of the same reason I've tried and ended up shelving games like every Civ except 3, Pharaoh/Cleo, Zeus/Poseidon, Emperor, Surviving Mars, Going Medieval, Manor Lords, Ostriv, Foundation, Graveyard Keeper, Portia/Sandrock, Infraspace, and similar. Once you figure out the "answers" in a playthrough or two, it's all "lather, rinse, repeat." It takes a major injection of randomness to keep things interesting.

[EDIT]

Oh, randomness or new content, either fills the "keep it interesting" bucket. I think it's probably ModDB that kept my interest in VS as long as it has.

[/EDIT]

Edited February 4 by Thorfinn

[Broccoli Clock]

16 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

I think that is kinda what I am saying.

I forget an important dimension to this proposition I am giving. Any counter view on what I am suggesting would almost require to come from a position that the current RNG interruptions and its storms are actually one of its best features..but is it?

This is less a counter view, more a comment that you may not find your "gaming sweet spot". Chasing an perfect world, when it's perhaps not even possible, may result in you missing out on a good world.

I've got no problem you taking the game and modding it, you've paid the money you get to choose your experience. That's pretty much why VS was designed the way it was. 

[CastIronFabric]

2 hours ago, Broccoli Clock said:

This is less a counter view, more a comment that you may not find your "gaming sweet spot". Chasing an perfect world, when it's perhaps not even possible, may result in you missing out on a good world.

I've got no problem you taking the game and modding it, you've paid the money you get to choose your experience. That's pretty much why VS was designed the way it was. 

no actually I am saying something different in that specific comment.

What I am saying in that specific comment is that I am sure people can argue that 'interruption' RNG is engaging as a general principle.

However, by proxy to imply that such 'interruption' RNG in this SPECIFIC game is somehow a pillar to the experience is actually absurd. Why do I say 'absurd'? Because in this specific game the vast majority of us (likely including everyone replying) does not even engage in TP storms and after copper find drifters spawning in base to be nothing more than a nuisance which means, they are actually playing this game for a different reason than the ones they are purporting here in this thread.

make sense?

To borrow from Thorfinn as an example: (not direct quote just lightly borrowed). Planet Crafters does not have enough interruptions to keep me engaged but Vintage Story does. Let that sink in a bit. Does that really sound plausible if you break it down honestly? 

 

 

Edited February 5 by CastIronFabric

[CastIronFabric]

On 2/4/2026 at 12:59 PM, Thorfinn said:

Of those, I've only extensively played Planet Crafter, all releases, and I find it lacking in engagement. Kerbal bored me to tears. I gave it a dozen or so hours, and when it still lacked anything interesting, I could easily imagine how little replay value it would have.

Kind of the same reason I've tried and ended up shelving games like every Civ except 3, Pharaoh/Cleo, Zeus/Poseidon, Emperor, Surviving Mars, Going Medieval, Manor Lords, Ostriv, Foundation, Graveyard Keeper, Portia/Sandrock, Infraspace, and similar. Once you figure out the "answers" in a playthrough or two, it's all "lather, rinse, repeat." It takes a major injection of randomness to keep things interesting.

[EDIT]

Oh, randomness or new content, either fills the "keep it interesting" bucket. I think it's probably ModDB that kept my interest in VS as long as it has.

[/EDIT]

once I stepped back a bit and gave all of this more thought I have to say I do believe that you feel 'interruption' game experience is important game play to you.

HOWEVER, not in this specific game. There is just not enough 'interruption' game play experience in this specific game to make that a major motivator for play.

TP storms? vast majority of people just sleep thru it, likely even you.

drifters spawning in base? after copper you like just find it a bother like the rest of us.

So the VAST majority of your game play you are doing something else and those things are more than likely the real motivator and attraction for you on this game.

So for example: I find it a really hard sell to imply 'Planet crafters is just to predictable to for me but VS has plenty of randomness  (correction: interuptions) to keep me engaged'. I can find that true for the first 5 hours of game play but after that I find that hard to believe to be honest.

 

Edited February 5 by CastIronFabric

[Thorfinn]

4 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

To borrow from Thorfinn as an example: (not direct quote just lightly borrowed). Planet Crafters does not have enough interruptions to keep me engaged but Vintage Story does. Let that sink in a bit. Does that really sound plausible if you break it down honestly? 

It doesn't have to be interruption. It's just the easiest way to implement some amount of randomness. Something to distinguish this playthrough from the last one.

4 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

P storms? vast majority of people just sleep thru it, likely even you.

Very rarely. Even though I think most (all?) Jonas tech is worthless, I still like to see what the RNG allows me to build.

4 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

drifters spawning in base? after copper you like just find it a bother like the rest of us.

Depends on what you mean by that. Do I run away from them? Sure. What would be the point of a tiny chance of a TG, and a 20% (or whatever) of a flax fiber? I've got better things to do.

What those spawns do, though, is change what I do instead of what I intended to do. They converge on where I was digging clay? If I don't have another clay deposit nearby, maybe I have to get peat or chop trees or mow the lawn. Get rid of the wolves I've been ignoring. Harvest honey. Cast a few ingots. Something other than what I had intended to do that night.

Without that, it becomes completely formulaic. I'd never have to adapt to the world as it is.

[Thorfinn]

Incidentally, the randomness in TPC is next to negligible. It's the same few minerals dotting the landscape, the major deposits are always in the exact same place, all the wrecks are identical playthrough to playthrough, animal life spawns in the exact same locations, etc. The Golden Crates are essentially identical. A 600% flower, a model, and a few things that vary depending on what stage of development you open it. So are the Blue ones. Early game run around picking up aluminum from meteorites. Later game run around petting animals in hopes of getting a DNA strand to make a meaningless change to your animals. Open portals and do procedurally-generated wrecks until you have all your trees at least 1200%, several lockers full of various colors of quartz, and more Terra Tokens than Sentinel Corp. Or until you get bored, whichever comes first.