EnbyKaiju Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 22 minutes ago, TeaJay said: e: A lot of them also have moisture levels at 0% so they likely won't be growing at all? They said in the notes that the moisture level won't be part of the equation. I think at the moment they are just using the default crop setup until they roll out the proper one. They did say it was an undercooked taster of what's to come. I'm expecting we'll probably see something closer to the intended in the next experimental or two, they still haven't got most of the new berry bush types in there and are holding on to all the old ones.
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 4 hours ago, TeaJay said: I'm guessing from Tyron's quote earlier that the worldgen setting for berry bushes is bugged right now? I went to test it out, and could not find a single berry bush with actual ripe berries. e: A lot of them also have moisture levels at 0% so they likely won't be growing at all? Yeah it's a pretty buggy mechanic at the moment. I got four different bug reports up on the Github for the berry bushes. The new bushes do eventually flower and grow fruit, but they don't appear to spawn that way at worldgen, at least right now. As for the legacy bushes, it looks like those can still be picked up and transplanted just like normal.
MKMoose Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 5 hours ago, TeaJay said: I'm guessing from Tyron's quote earlier that the worldgen setting for berry bushes is bugged right now? I went to test it out, and could not find a single berry bush with actual ripe berries. e: A lot of them also have moisture levels at 0% so they likely won't be growing at all? From Discord #devlog: Quote Just for info - don't get too scared about the berry bush changes just yet. The moisture level thing will go away and I'll re-add the randomized flowering/fruiting states during worldgen. Fertilizer usage and grow times can also be tweaked still should they be too harsh. 1
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 (edited) pre5 up in the Downloads section! Patch notes on berry bushes: Quote Tweak: Added a (preliminary) handbook entry to berry bushes, explaining their propagation and care. Tweak: Berry bush - re-add random fruiting stages on worldgen. No barren or bountiful bushes during worldgen. Remove moisture level info from hud. Tweak: Berry bush nutrient use now tapers off by 15% per year (resulting in about 5% use after 20 years) Tweak: Added berry bush traits Edited March 4 by LadyWYT 1
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 The full patch notes for 1.22.0-pre5: Quote Tweak: Fully reworked trader models. Added climate specific clothing for traders. Not yet spawning in survival mode Tweak: Added a (preliminary) handbook entry to berry bushes, explaining their propagation and care. Tweak: Berry bush - re-add random fruiting stages on worldgen. No barren or bountiful bushes during worldgen. Remove moisture level info from hud. Tweak: Berry bush nutrient use now tapers off by 15% per year (resulting in about 5% use after 20 years) Tweak: Added berry bush traits Tweak: Update community translations Tweak: Fish no longer try to bolt away when using entity mover Fixed: Scraping multiple soaked hides causes game crash #8479 Fixed: Old traders were upgraded to the new traders, but naked and no face Fixed: When public server advertising is enabled that could send multiple duplicated requests to the masterserver. Issue since 1.22.0-pre.1 Fixed: Multiple issues with berry bushes. Will cause new pre4 berry bushes to turn into unknown blocks Fixed: Some Nadiyan clothing was not using the correct textures. Fixed: Merchant hat and fur coat had some texture issues. Fixed: Berry bush 'unsuitable soil' message was missing localization. Fixed: Various small issues with bear textures and model Fixed: Olives' on-ground transform was bad Fixed: Fruitingbush blocktype was not using correct shapes Fixed: Snow not all melting immediately but only in patches, when world time advanced to summer API Fixed: Rideable behavior no longer ignores minGeneration setting 3
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 One thing that doesn't seem to be listed in the patch notes--procedural dungeons. I can't really say much about them as I've not had a chance to toy much with pre5, but they do seem to have been added to the game.
Yerik Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 I was playing around with pre-4 last night an noticed something interesting. When returning home my crops had a bunch of rabbits, deer, etc eating them. I remember something in the notes saying a bug was fixed regarding this. But ever since I started playing a little over a year ago, I have never seen this behavior before. At first I was annoyed, then I realized I could use my crops as bait, dug some pits. Now I have plenty of food while I wait for my crops to grow! 2 1
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 9 hours ago, TeaJay said: I'm guessing from Tyron's quote earlier that the worldgen setting for berry bushes is bugged right now? I went to test it out, and could not find a single berry bush with actual ripe berries. e: A lot of them also have moisture levels at 0% so they likely won't be growing at all? As of pre5 they can spawn with berries. The worldgen is still buggy though since the berry bushes will now spawn in lakes sometimes. I don't think the moisture level matters for berry bushes. It's just a reading borrowed from the standard crop growth code, I think, that hasn't been fixed for bushes yet. I will note that there does seem to be a distinction between wild bushes and cultivated ones. Likewise, bushes seem to be able to produce berries even at very poor(barren) health, but the yield will be significantly lower than a healthy bush. At a glance, it's enough to keep a player alive via foraging, but getting a proper harvest of berries will take either quite a bit of devoted foraging, or some dedicated farming effort.
EnbyKaiju Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 Yeah, okay, these changes in the long makes it feel like the berry system is falling into place nicely. There's a real early game/late game dynamic shift, with the focus on cultivation for positive traits and establisbed plants over the years. I'm getting more excited for this by the change log. As LadyWYT said, it looks like enough to keep you going through foraging in the early game, but not such a huge boost like it currently is that you're able to live long-term off berry harvesting right off the bat. So you'll need to engage in other kinds of food production like fishing until your crops come in. I'm looking forward to that sense of "earning it" pride that will come from a berry plantation I've carefully maintained over in game years, and that the farmer's life in multiplayer is coming with more things to keep them busy. 3
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 17 minutes ago, EnbyKaiju said: Yeah, okay, these changes in the long makes it feel like the berry system is falling into place nicely. There's a real early game/late game dynamic shift, with the focus on cultivation for positive traits and establisbed plants over the years. I'm getting more excited for this by the change log. As LadyWYT said, it looks like enough to keep you going through foraging in the early game, but not such a huge boost like it currently is that you're able to live long-term off berry harvesting right off the bat. So you'll need to engage in other kinds of food production like fishing until your crops come in. I'm looking forward to that sense of "earning it" pride that will come from a berry plantation I've carefully maintained over in game years, and that the farmer's life in multiplayer is coming with more things to keep them busy. Just some more notes on the berry bushes so far: The traits seem quite nice, and while wild bushes seem to be plain for the most part, it's not uncommon to find bushes with one trait, though they will sometimes spawn with two traits although more rarely. The traits can be either good or bad, and a bush with two traits might have one good trait and one bad trait. Taking a cutting from a bush appears to propagate the respective traits of that bush. The cuttings seem to require medium or better quality soil in order to plant, will take around 6-12 months to reach maturity. Only one cutting per bush, per year. Only propagated bushes need to be fertilized, and only propagated bushes can produce the best possible yields. Bushes will use nutrients when they produce crops, but won't necessarily use up the nutrients for every crop. Nutrients that are used will need to be replenished with fertilizer, as it won't replenish nutrients naturally like farmland. Keeping the bushes fertilized will increase their quality over time, while neglecting to take care of them can result in the bushes' quality diminishing. For the long term, bushes will gradually need less fertilizer to stay productive, eventually needing no fertilizer at all to stay healthy(roughly 20 years, according to the current handbook information). Seems like a pretty good initial balance. Long term players can see more benefits on their worlds, while players with shorter-lived worlds can still easily get really good berry crops going without a huge time sink. I think it also makes travel prospects a little more interesting as well, without being too punishing, in that players might want to be careful about spending too much time away from home if they have freshly planted cuttings and whatnot. 3
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 Slight correction to the above: Berry bushes can indeed spawn with more than two traits, since I just found one that had all four trait categories. It's very rare though, and even more unlikely that all of the traits will be positive ones. 2
EnbyKaiju Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 1 hour ago, LadyWYT said: Seems like a pretty good initial balance. Long term players can see more benefits on their worlds, while players with shorter-lived worlds can still easily get really good berry crops going without a huge time sink. I think it also makes travel prospects a little more interesting as well, without being too punishing, in that players might want to be careful about spending too much time away from home if they have freshly planted cuttings and whatnot. Thanks for the notes! These indeed sound like a great balance. It doesn't make it super easy, but also encourages folks to be more observant and focused on what they are doing. It also brings to mind a lot of early plant domestication where crops were chosen and cultivated over time. Bigger fruits, more fruits, more sugars, nicer colour...etc Honestly this just has me more excited and I'm here for it. I'm gonna grow the biggest strawberries in the world!!! 1
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, EnbyKaiju said: Thanks for the notes! These indeed sound like a great balance. It doesn't make it super easy, but also encourages folks to be more observant and focused on what they are doing. It also brings to mind a lot of early plant domestication where crops were chosen and cultivated over time. Bigger fruits, more fruits, more sugars, nicer colour...etc Honestly this just has me more excited and I'm here for it. I'm gonna grow the biggest strawberries in the world!!! Oh for sure. To be fair, it's still very WIP, but it's a little easier to figure out where the devs are going with this and how things will play out on stable. The trait system looks incredibly interesting, and aside from perhaps being a glimpse at what a status effect system could hold, I think it's a system that will likely include fruit trees at some point in the future. Which, I think, would be a very good thing. It would mean the player might need to be more picky about which trees they take cuttings from, for one, and it might also make grafting cuttings onto existing trees more valuable than just a vanity feature. In that case, the player could potentially get rootstock established with good traits, and then graft cuttings from lesser trees onto said rootstock in order for those cuttings to take on the rootstock's traits rather than the traits of the tree the cutting initially came from. 3
EnbyKaiju Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 9 minutes ago, LadyWYT said: I think it's a system that will likely include fruit trees at some point in the future. Which, I think, would be a very good thing. Yeah, absolutely. This feels like a system that could "easily" be added to fruit trees as well. Especially since the entire purpose of grafting fruit trees is to get a consistent fruit identity (too early, can't think of a better word). The idea of being able to keep rootstocks is also a great one, especially if they ever introduce blights or similar to the game and you need to replace withered trees & bushes. Hell, cuttings with positive traits might even end but being a viable trade good on larger servers. It definitely makes the idea of transporting cuttings from around the world to regrow a lot more enticing. I can also see greenhouses for berry bushes becoming more desirable with all this too. Since those make it easier to keep track of plant conditions. So many possibilities 1
LadyWYT Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 14 minutes ago, EnbyKaiju said: The idea of being able to keep rootstocks is also a great one, especially if they ever introduce blights or similar to the game and you need to replace withered trees & bushes. I don't know that I'd ever really want to see blights, at least not for fruit trees and berry bushes. Maybe if it was the result of poor care, and just resulted in no crop that year rather than killing the plant. But otherwise, while realistic, it seems like the kind of thing that easily tips into the "punishment" category. It'd feel pretty bad to put all that work into a nice orchard, only to have it ravaged by something outside your control due to getting unlucky. 16 minutes ago, EnbyKaiju said: Hell, cuttings with positive traits might even end but being a viable trade good on larger servers. It definitely makes the idea of transporting cuttings from around the world to regrow a lot more enticing. Oh for sure. Whoever gets the bushes will all the positive traits is going to make an absolute fortune selling cuttings. I think even cuttings that only have a couple of positives and no negatives will fetch high prices as well. 17 minutes ago, EnbyKaiju said: I can also see greenhouses for berry bushes becoming more desirable with all this too. Since those make it easier to keep track of plant conditions. It also looks like the bushes might properly go dormant, so yeah definitely agree here. Not that berry bushes didn't go dormant before...it just seems like it might be a little more of a factor now. 1
MKMoose Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 (edited) 10 hours ago, LadyWYT said: Nutrients that are used will need to be replenished with fertilizer, as it won't replenish nutrients naturally like farmland. Keeping the bushes fertilized will increase their quality over time, while neglecting to take care of them can result in the bushes' quality diminishing. For the long term, bushes will gradually need less fertilizer to stay productive, eventually needing no fertilizer at all to stay healthy(roughly 20 years, according to the current handbook information). I actually did the clever thing to calculate the fertilizer requirement (partially following what you've mentioned in another thread). It's so low that it's practically irrelevant. I genuinely don't know why it's even implemented as a requirement and not as an optional temporary yield increase or an upfront cost, both of which actually got a lot of support where I've seen them mentioned. Almost the entire reaction of the community would have been prevented with more intentional design, or at least better communication. A lot of community criticisms are actually still relevant, though, only the most controversial part is a dud. If I didn't get something wrong (I did initially, I was using a number from Pizza who was talking about a bush with traits), you'll get 3 bountiful harvests (1.5x yield) starting from 100% fertility, then 6 regular harvests in the 30-80% nutrient range, then 5 half-yield harvests in the 10-30% range, but those numbers will also reduce with time. Planted berries will naturally start at the appropriate level partway through. There's also bugs, though I'm gonna ignore them. I don't think I can stress enough how irrelevant that fertilizer requirement actually is except as an nagging psychological factor. Most people can feasibly plant berries, maybe fertilize them just a little, then harvest them ~10 times or more if fertilized (a couple of them on half yield, but it really doesn't matter much), then move on to a new world or drop the game altogether. There's almost no need to refertilize for most players. Berry spam is arguably even worse than it used to be in certain regards, because it's much cheaper to plant new berries instead of refertilizing old ones. Honestly, I need to cool off. This is frustrating me in brand new ways I didn't know were possible. Also, quoting Red Ram from Discord: Quote As pizza said, this is mainly a berry bush rework. Establishing a framework that has more hooks and levers, so to speak. There will probably be further tweaks, in later updates. To both berry bushs and fruit trees. We simply didn't have time to establish the entire set of assets needed for the full changes in this update. So, comparing berry bushes and fruit trees is a bit pointless. Neither is fixed in stone. And we have further plans for both. That we could not implement the entirety of the plans at once, is just down to only being so much time in an update cycle, and other competing priorities. It's kind of expected, but man. Couldn't have said so earlier, instead of introducing the berry bush rework like a big standalone feature? Edited March 5 by MKMoose Fixed some numbers. Fertilization is less irrelevant than I initially thought, but still mostly irrelevant. 4
Hafthohlladung Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 3 hours ago, MKMoose said: Most people can feasibly plant berries, maybe fertilize them just a little, then harvest them ~15 times or more if fertilized (a couple of them on half yield, but it really doesn't matter much), then move on to a new world or drop the game altogether. There's literally no need to refertilize for most players. Berry spam is arguably even worse than it used to be in certain regards, because it's much cheaper to plant new berries instead of refertilizing old ones. Perhaps if the ability to take new cuttings was restricted to just being from Wild bushes, it would better promote going down the fertilization route rather than just yearly re-planting of cuttings from existing planted stock.
Bumber Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 Know what doesn't need replanting? Fruit trees. Know what takes a year to spoil? Apples. Doesn't sound like there's reason to stick with berries by the time you get to that point. In the same way, I don't think I'm going to waste time growing bait and fishing, as opposed to filling a trough and slaughtering. (Maybe it's more attractive far from base in winter? But you'd might as well just bring food instead of bait.) 3
john_p Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Bumber said: Know what doesn't need replanting? Fruit trees. Know what takes a year to spoil? Apples. Doesn't sound like there's reason to stick with berries by the time you get to that point. In the same way, I don't think I'm going to waste time growing bait and fishing, as opposed to filling a trough and slaughtering. (Maybe it's more attractive far from base in winter? But you'd might as well just bring food instead of bait.) I'd agree in single player, but new players joining multiplayer some time after server reset will find nothing near spawn. All the sticks, stones, and berries will be gone. Starving to death in the middle of a fruit tree grove protected by land claim really sucks. Early players are set for life, new players can't even begin to start playing and surviving.
CastIronFabric Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bumber said: Know what doesn't need replanting? Fruit trees. Know what takes a year to spoil? Apples. Doesn't sound like there's reason to stick with berries by the time you get to that point. In the same way, I don't think I'm going to waste time growing bait and fishing, as opposed to filling a trough and slaughtering. (Maybe it's more attractive far from base in winter? But you'd might as well just bring food instead of bait.) when it comes to fishing, I got a boar worth of meat from 3 worms I got with a grunter. I think the fishing feature was in part put in place to balance the berry changes for early game Edited March 5 by CastIronFabric 2
LadyWYT Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 5 hours ago, Bumber said: In the same way, I don't think I'm going to waste time growing bait and fishing, as opposed to filling a trough and slaughtering. (Maybe it's more attractive far from base in winter? But you'd might as well just bring food instead of bait.) Fishing is pretty fun though, and it's nice to be able to preserve trophy catches and mount them as decorations. If the hunting is a little difficult in the area and there's good fishing spots nearby, it's also a pretty good way to feed yourself early in the game. As for bait, the player doesn't need to grow it. I haven't tried it yet, but there's supposed to be a grunting stick that the player can use to collect worms. Farming is really only necessary if the player wants to make stinkbaits, in which case they're going to need licorice or fennel. 2 hours ago, john_p said: I'd agree in single player, but new players joining multiplayer some time after server reset will find nothing near spawn. All the sticks, stones, and berries will be gone. Starving to death in the middle of a fruit tree grove protected by land claim really sucks. Early players are set for life, new players can't even begin to start playing and surviving. For multiplayer worlds created in 1.22, that should change. Breaking 1.22 bushes will destroy the bush; it's necessary to propagate new bushes via cuttings. That should mean that unless someone is a jerk and destroys all the wild bushes around spawn, new players should at least be able to forage the wild bushes or get cuttings from them to start their own berry patches, if not get cuttings from other players. To be fair, I still think that starting fresh on a larger established server is still going to be quite difficult. But the spawns might not be stripped as barren when 1.22 finally arrives. 3
Hafthohlladung Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 6 hours ago, Bumber said: Know what doesn't need replanting? Fruit trees. Know what takes a year to spoil? Apples. Doesn't sound like there's reason to stick with berries by the time you get to that point. In the same way, I don't think I'm going to waste time growing bait and fishing, as opposed to filling a trough and slaughtering. (Maybe it's more attractive far from base in winter? But you'd might as well just bring food instead of bait.) Know a Min-Maxer
Silfrenbirce Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 (edited) I do just kinda want to throw out there for the Devs, in the event they happen to care about this kind of thing. Propagate is how you spell the word - not propogate. I know it's a trivial thing, but figured I'd point it out anyway, in case someone wanted to edit some of the text reflected in the handbook information on berry bushes. Edited March 6 by Silfrenbirce
Silfrenbirce Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 (edited) On 3/3/2026 at 8:28 AM, LadyWYT said: Not sure. It does get a little goofy with the dairy stock, but given how long it takes to tame said stock enough to be somewhat milkable, I think it's acceptable compromise. ....They're saying it's weird and stupid for a Gen 3 animal to run from you only to stop if you manage to catch and start milking them. What exactly are you calling an acceptable compromise???? They're saying that an animal that is tame enough to let you milk her should not be running from you in the first place. That said, I also wish the game distinguished between "tame," and "domesticated." Those concepts are not in any way interchangeable. A third generation animal that has been living around humans might still look a good deal like its grandparent forebears, but it's going to be a lot more calm and docile around humans than they were. Honestly, it would be nice if the game distinguished between wild and domestic animals. After a few generations, boars become pigs, wolves become dogs, and so on. Edited March 6 by Silfrenbirce
CastIronFabric Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 (edited) Traders: I wish I could point to something that I like about the changes to traders but I cant. The trading system is already so dispersed that I barely find it useful, now the traders are harder to find as well. The ladders are the bane of everyone's cadence and I get vibes of 7 days to die in the architecture design which god please lets not Edited March 6 by CastIronFabric 2
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