Water hostile Mobs

[tony Liberatto]

First of all, No, just No.

As someone who was raised on the coast, and has always enjoyed swimming in the ocean I have to say no to this. 

I live in Florida, Orlando, but it is close enough that I can go to the beach all summer if I wish.

Now, consider how many millions of people go to the beach every day and try to make a percentage of how many actually get attacked by sharks.

Read this : https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/07/12/how-common-shark-attacks-ocean-summer/471181001/

Spoiler

In 2016, there were 154 incidents of alleged shark-human interaction worldwide, according to the Florida Museum of Natural History's International Shark Attack File. Closer investigation found that of those 154 incidents, only 84 represented "unprovoked attacks," or attacks that occur without provocation from humans. There were 39 provoked attacks and 12 incidents involving a shark biting a boat or water vessel, according to the International Shark Attack File.

 

 

My problem with hostile water mobs is that they just make it impossible to use water, it is unreal and prevents the use and enjoyment of a big portion of the game world.

BTW, the same argument works for Piranhas, Do they actually exist in the Amazon river, yes, but people swim there every day and the cases of people getting bitten are actually pretty rare.

SO unless you want to waste the time and energy of the developers to code something that a player will encounter once in a million times he/she goes swimming, please do not even suggest the creation of such creatures.

For me, it would be more worth for the devs to spend time creating fish entities, that we could actually catch and oysters on the floor of tropical beaches. Coral would be great too.

Don't get me wrong, I am not completely against hostile water mobs, I just think that to be realistic they should only react when provoked and not make water unusable.

[Unclesid]

I only want hostile mobs in the ocean to be honest, theirs no real point in monsters in rivers.

I mean crocodiles whatever, wolves can be around rivers too, and are just as scary sometimes. Either way it makes no difference to me. But a completely safe ocean? The only real reason i'm okay with no mobs there, is if it's easier to drown in, or storms or weather can make staying in one place difficult or something. 

Fish off boats? i mean why would anything hostile mess with your boat. It also gives a whole reason to even care about boats. I'm assuming that the devs make hostile mobs uninterested in players on boats, as that just makes sense.

I guess i'm lost in translation here as i don't see the point in not adding hurdles to exploration and discovery? Really the only place i believe should be a little bit dangerous in the least is the ocean. maybe sharks at the most, but nothing too crazy. Just something that makes you at least look over your shoulder for 2 seconds, or getting prepared by grabbing a couple more copper/bronze spears.

I don't believe that water mobs should be everywhere, if the ocean is a biome specific landmark, then just letting sharks or something spawn there and only there makes sense to me. You shouldn't be in any sort of threat from a river/lake unless you drown.

I also don't think we should take realism into account, obviously sharks aren't aggressive unless you provoke them with something. But it's a game, and why have sharks if they don't do anything? whats the point, and why bother coding them if the waters gonna be safe anyways?

I'm sorry but i like a decent threat or risk to collecting rare materials or something useful, otherwise it's not rare or valuable to other people, even if you find it. It just takes a little more time looking for it and boom cross that off the list, with no real big hurdle. 

I mean digging deep for ore is dangerous, so why shouldn't diving for clams and oysters be at least a bit dangerous? otherwise it just seems unbalanced to just go out in the sea and harvest food/resources without much threat to you. After all most people just lived off food by the river anyways.

Other than the no hostile mobs thing, fishing for clams and what not is a great idea. I'd like to be able to fish for pearls as well, like a 1 in 25 chance you find a pearl from a clam. to add even more reason to care about the ocean.

[redram]

I mean, to be fair I think wolves in VS are also far more hostile than they are irl.  It's a video game after all.   Combat is a big part of it.  I'm with Sid; there needs to be threats.  But I do want lake/river threats in appropriate climates.  Hippos and alligators mainly.

[tony Liberatto]

What about a compromise? 

We could have Eels, they would live in corals and only attack if disturbed. So when the player breaks a coral block he/she would know that maybe an eel would come out and attack.

My point is to not make diving in shallow waters a prohibitive thing, I have seen in Minecraft with MoCreatures or other mods that add sharks and hostile water mobs that it just makes impossible for the player to go into the water. 

Some danger is OK and is part of the game, but not to the point where it limits gameplay.

I too don't like the possibility for players to be in water indefinitely and no way they should be able to cross oceans. Just don't want hostile mobs to be used in that manner.

[Unclesid]

one hostile mob in the ocean isn't going to limit game play, it should expand it. I'm not saying we should throw a truckload of sharks at you lol. That's not what i'm getting at here.

a poisonous water snake is more of a threat than an eel in the coral reef, and shouldn't really be hostile unless you get to close to it i guess, like a boar.

It's straight up balancing the game, I really don't care what mob they add in there, as long as there's one hostile mob, you can add other mechanics to balance it out. Sure you can create a coral biome for the hostile mob to spawn, but only if most of the fish and goodies are around there. Reason being you are marking it as an important location, and worth exploring. 

if you're really adamant about no mobs, make the coral biome / ocean area around it really dangerous with some poisonous coral blocks or entities like rock fish, which when swam through(they attach to blocks so basically you step on them on the ocean floor)  gives you a seriously stamina inducing/health reducing poisonous sting. Thus leading to a risk of drowning due to lack of stamina or if that's not added, the breath meter goes down quickly and you're slowed in movement. That way you have a major risk drowning to death. But the poison should not be so deadly that it just straight up kills you. otherwise whats the point in going to the coral reef.

 If the environment is dangerous, i can overlook the no mobs thing. Reason being you are putting in a risk, without risks its not balanced. it also means you need to pay attention to where you're going, and most of the antidotes can be made from the coral reef around it, and maybe some land herbal remedy's will help. that way when you make it you can ship a whole bunch of new recipes/ areas to explore with new resources, And added dangers.

if you wanna stick with eels i'm cool with it, but i'd rather the environment be deadly if theirs no killer sharks(which i wouldn't want to spawn like wolves maybe 1 or 2 in a 4 - 5 chunk ocean radius).

I'm not saying the whole ocean is teeming with evil, just around the important parts like a coral biome.

Edit: i get what your saying about coral reefs being in shallow water and all that, but its a game. So don't make coral reefs in shallow water throw them to atleast 10-15 block deep water so you have to swim out intentionally to get to it. so new players don't die going out in the water.

 

[tony Liberatto]

Yeah, I see your point. It's OK to have some danger.

Is just that at least in Minecraft every time we try to add hostile water mobs to water it made impossible to swim. The sharks were worst them the wolves in VS. When you are in the water, there is just nowhere for you to go, unless you can very quickly get out of the water. The concept of killing sharks with a sword is just ludicrous and should not be a feature.

So unless there is a way to really limit the number and chance of spawning of those creatures and they stay in only a certain area and only attack if provoked, I think we are better off without.

Another huge argument is that there is just so much to do in the game that we can live the water unpopulated for a long time.

We need a Game launcher that creates separate instances for the game, so the player can easily switch from one server to another that uses a different server version and different mod versions. That is more urgent than water Mobs.

Ohh. And a Minimap.

[Stroam]

I think if there's a limit to swimming and you drown fairly quickly unaided, before going 15 blocks down. That we don't need too many deadly water creatures. I like crocodiles in the swamps, poisonous rock fish in the coral reefs, poisonous jelly fish occasionally in the coral reef mostly in deep water, the occasional shark in deep water, and the rare giant ocean monster that brings ocean storms that damage your boat until it breaks and then it eats you. 

So the only things that actively seek you out are crocodiles if in striking distance on land or swimming in the swamp, sharks if you are swimming in the ocean and sea monster if in the deep ocean on a boat for an extended period of time. Maybe an elder god that sleeps on the bottom of the sea.

[Unclesid]

4 hours ago, Stroam said:

I think if there's a limit to swimming and you drown fairly quickly unaided, before going 15 blocks down. That we don't need too many deadly water creatures. I like crocodiles in the swamps, poisonous rock fish in the coral reefs, poisonous jelly fish occasionally in the coral reef mostly in deep water, the occasional shark in deep water, and the rare giant ocean monster that brings ocean storms that damage your boat until it breaks and then it eats you. 

So the only things that actively seek you out are crocodiles if in striking distance on land or swimming in the swamp, sharks if you are swimming in the ocean and sea monster if in the deep ocean on a boat for an extended period of time. Maybe an elder god that sleeps on the bottom of the sea.

Ha, good one.

6 hours ago, tony Liberatto said:

Yeah, I see your point. It's OK to have some danger.

Is just that at least in Minecraft every time we try to add hostile water mobs to water it made impossible to swim. The sharks were worst them the wolves in VS. When you are in the water, there is just nowhere for you to go, unless you can very quickly get out of the water. The concept of killing sharks with a sword is just ludicrous and should not be a feature.

So unless there is a way to really limit the number and chance of spawning of those creatures and they stay in only a certain area and only attack if provoked, I think we are better off without.

Another huge argument is that there is just so much to do in the game that we can live the water unpopulated for a long time.

We need a Game launcher that creates separate instances for the game, so the player can easily switch from one server to another that uses a different server version and different mod versions. That is more urgent than water Mobs.

Ohh. And a Minimap.

I'm just saying it's just not interesting if its just so easy to get. I mean its not minecraft. So why are we comparing the two games? I'm sure it's not difficult to create SOMETHING to make it interesting. I'm okay with just drowning if you don't have a boat nearby to regen stamina or something, but why do we need to hold peoples hands so darn much.

like i said before i don't care if theres hostile mobs, i just care if there is a system of resources available it needs to have a innate risk. even if that's just did i park my boat close enough to get more air/regen stanima?

if you really can't handle some challenge to your game i mean, i guess just do the modes thing with a difficulty level raising the monster spawning limit or something. Like unlocking hostile water mobs in the game. Which should just be a shark or something. The games boring enough as it is with drifters and the locusts offering no real challenge.

I'm not for this at all to be honest, it really doesn't seem to be worth the developers time to make coral reefs and what not if their isn't something to balance it out. It also doesn't sound like oceans is something the developers should be working on soon. I'd rather them get some actual interesting rpg skills and more crafting content, and you know actual content that pushes the game forward. Also making all this coral reef stuff sounds more like something somebody should make a mod for. 

if it works out best of luck to you, but man it's just kinda boring around here with no risk. Most interesting thing so far is running out looking for bees, and trying not to die from hunger and wolves. i liked doing that a lot, it got me to at least respect the amount of effort i got to get the bees. Thus making me respect the process of bees, and actually giving me a bit of pride and joy having them.

[QPTech]

I’m a newb and all I could think of wading around harvesting reeds is “please no crocodiles please no crocodiles”. Somehow I felt exposed. I think maybe crocs in random waterholes might be neat, maybe like territorial like they’re not going to chase you everywhere and might serve as a boss or obstacle to clear in order to freely access a really great pond full of reeds (or other resources). So eventually you gear up and finally go clear the resident annoying croc and now it’s “your” watering hole at last.

[MammaJamma]

I agree, no crocodiles, but maybe boat crunching hippos 

[Stroam]

crocodiles are iconic swampland creatures that have been around longer than humans and will probably be here after us. Can't leave them out completely.

[tony Liberatto]

Crocodiles are in the same category as sharks, as far as gameplay goes. 
One more time, I live in Florida.
There are alligators everywhere, in every single pond and lake. Is actually common for people to find gators in peoples backyard swimming pool.

People swim in lakes and rivers, and every once in a while you hear about someone that got attacked by a gator. 
But it is not an everyday occurrence. It does not happen every single time someone goes swimming in a lake or river. 
And that is my issue with hostile underwater mobs. They make the place forbidden. Because to be realistic. If you are swimming, and a 10-foot alligator gets you, you are dead. There is just nothing you can do about. 
My point is just that before you add something like that to the game, you have to carefully consider how to balance it. Otherwise, you are just making off-grounds of huge parts of the map. 

[Stroam]

I agree that enemies shouldn't be so numerous that it makes entire areas impassable but should be uncommon enough that most of the time it catches you by surprise. For instance, a single wolf pack covers around 50 to 1000 square miles which is roughly 80500 to 1609000 square meters or 1 pack roughly every 80 to 1570 chunks. A pack usually has around 7 members but can go as high as 15 depending on food. They cover roughly 9% of their territory per day so even in their territory you only have about a 1 in 10 chance of encountering them. Which can be furthered reduced by traveling outside of their preferred hunting conditions such as in rain or during the day.

[tony Liberatto]

Yeah, the game has a lot more wolves per area as in real life. But at least the game has mechanics that allow the player to fight back. An in many cases win. 
My problem with water hostiles is that there is no defense. There is just nothing you can do after the shark or alligator attacks you.  I am not completely against adding those animals. But if they are added, it must be in such a way that it does not deprive the player of the use of underwater. 

[QPTech]

Maybe if there were clear signs of the critter's presence, so if you're careful you can get whatever creature with the spear or something first, or find a different spot.  But if you get cocky and just go barging in, then you would be in trouble?

[Stroam]

Shark attacks are pretty rare and are hardly ever fatal. They may bite you once but then they leave you alone. Piranhas are only found in select areas and you don't have to worry about unless you are injured or splashing a lot. Even then they are rarely fatal. Crocodiles and alligators, on the other hand, are deadly anytime you are within striking distance and they are hungry. They are difficult to spot and make no noise. They have over 3000 psi of bit force capable of going through armor and bone. They, however, can only move a short distance on land at a speed of 16kph compared to the average human in shape at 24kph so You should be able to sprint faster then them if you are on land. They will also let go of you should you do significant damage to them. If they are added to VS, learn where they live, stay out of the water in those places, and always carry a weapon. They also carry you back into the water to kill you so if they do catch you on land you should have a little time to draw a weapon and swing at it but those who freak out will most likely die.

[Soloquendi]

Ocean generation should be added as soon as they are able, to get the seawater mechanic into crafting, but limit it's size for now. Later when ocean content is added, the size can be increased. Does this make sense?