Why doesn't alcohol provide satiation when your hunger bar is full?

[BudgetLimeSoda]

Alcohol takes ages to make, gives a visual debuff, and provides no nutrition. Why on earth would it provide no fruit satiation when your hunger bar is full if it doesn't even give you nutrition? I was so excited to try my first apple brandy in winter when I had no other fruit and my fruit satiation was low, only to find it did nothing because my hunger bar was full. Surely this should be one of the benefits of alcohol not providing nutrition, you can bump up your fruit satiation whenever you like.

I also think alcohol should cure freezing personally, and there should be nice quartz or lead crystal bottles and glasses and a wine rack (Maybe even customizable labels?).  I love the brewing mechanic, super awesome, but please, give it a little love!  

[Maelstrom]

Same reason why fruit can be consumed when the hunger bar is full yet provide no benefit.

[Ogi Teh yeti]

Keep in mind, once you turned the apple cider into apple brandy you actually made it so it offers no fruit satiety. It will reduce hunger, but doesn't count as fruit anymore. Wines and the other alcohol you brew from a barrel counts as fruit nutrition, but all the distilled alcohol loses its nutrition though still providing satiety. Also, only meals from a bowl or pie check to see if you are full, otherwise all the foods and drinks can be consumed at max hunger but do nothing for you. 

Seeing as there are artisanal bottles, but they currently do nothing, I imagine we may see bottles, jugs, and drinks getting touched upon again soon but that is purely speculation. I do like the idea of using alcohol as a means to "cure" freezing, might make the stumbling about a bit more worth while.

[Echoweaver]

It would be lovely to see a game motivation for making alcohol. The mechanic for doing it is lovely. There's just no reason to do it beyond roleplaying.

[Maelstrom]

On 5/24/2023 at 10:54 AM, Ogi Teh yeti said:

I do like the idea of using alcohol as a means to "cure" freezing

Only problem is that in reality alcohol expedites death by exposure while numbing the person to the discomfort.  In game you wouldn't suffer cold damage until you suddenly die.  This would create many loud complaints from players.

[Ogi Teh yeti]

2 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Only problem is that in reality alcohol expedites death by exposure while numbing the person to the discomfort.  In game you wouldn't suffer cold damage until you suddenly die.  This would create many loud complaints from players.

This is true, however it depends on how realistic it's intended to be. Could just be something like it gives a slight bonus to players heat hardiness or something so it just slows down how fast they lose heat (although the reality is it makes you lose heat faster, you simply just don't feel it).

[Locklear]

On 5/24/2023 at 12:57 PM, Echoweaver said:

It would be lovely to see a game motivation for making alcohol. The mechanic for doing it is lovely. There's just no reason to do it beyond roleplaying.

Perhaps if we went the "viking" route?  The idea of drinking a bit before a battle to push through pain a bit.  I think in 7 Days to Die being sightly drunk increased your hand to hand and increased your resistance to stun.  So maybe if it increased damage BUT at some kind of cost... Like if it made your character a bit harder to control.

[Varenvel]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:57 PM, Echoweaver said:

It would be lovely to see a game motivation for making alcohol. The mechanic for doing it is lovely. There's just no reason to do it beyond roleplaying.

if you mean vines , its cheapest lowest effort to preserve fruit as jam needs honey who can be scarse early on (tho arg trader sells bowls of it) and even if you make it you need sealant

meanwhile fruit wine stored in semi ok cellar can last 25? 35? days ontop of 7 days of no spoiling when you seal it , when your playing alone or with friends i usualy have more fruits then i can eat or store who ends up half of it spoiling as only 2 cooking recipes accept them(atleast till press is made)

leftovers from fruit press is also "easy animal feed for sheep and pigs" tho that spoils really quickly

as for distilled alcohol it opens very good healing items , and making Vinegar(who has no use currently i

e) , not to say RP reasons , lots seam to carve alcohol ingame , deep rock galactic and other games teached me gamers love ingame booze

tho i admit "buffs" should be reworked as lots times new player wont know that meals from cooking pot gives "no hunger buff" and few other items as there are icons or timers

 

my only gripe is that vinegar not seams to have much use despite being used irl in food preservation since "it was found" , pickles date all way 40 centuries to mesopotamia if not even more

On 5/24/2023 at 6:54 PM, Ogi Teh yeti said:

Keep in mind, once you turned the apple cider into apple brandy you actually made it so it offers no fruit satiety. It will reduce hunger, but doesn't count as fruit anymore. Wines and the other alcohol you brew from a barrel counts as fruit nutrition, but all the distilled alcohol loses its nutrition though still providing satiety. Also, only meals from a bowl or pie check to see if you are full, otherwise all the foods and drinks can be consumed at max hunger but do nothing for you. 

Seeing as there are artisanal bottles, but they currently do nothing, I imagine we may see bottles, jugs, and drinks getting touched upon again soon but that is purely speculation. I do like the idea of using alcohol as a means to "cure" freezing, might make the stumbling about a bit more worth while.

 

well , other post people spoke about potential traveling traders(to make game interesting) who might pay you for stay and will trade items depending on "room provided" , would give interesting incentive to provide booze or have a tavern NPC could visit

 

i personaly would like the idea of so as currently trading is big pain , unless you luckout on having good starting trader (like argurniture one selling honey/wax/combs) and lots other traders are only usefull mostly early game

[bluespruce786]

Is there any conversation about making corks so that cyder/perry/wine can be bottled for preservation?

 

[bluespruce786]

Re alcohol as a cure for freezing: It would be nice if it removed the symptoms of freezing, frost vision and audible complaint when taking cold damage, but actually reduced your tolerance for cold. That way you could use it to complete whatever task brings you outside on such a cold day at the risk of not noticing how much damage you are taking from the weather. 

[ifoz]

I would love to see fancy bottles and scroll racks able to be used to hold them.
It would also be cool if the Artistic Bottle could hold alcohol. It sits on the counter in my tavern, and I'd love to have it actually contain some liquid.

 

45 minutes ago, bluespruce786 said:

Is there any conversation about making corks so that cyder/perry/wine can be bottled for preservation?

I really like this idea, kind of like how you can wax cheese, you could bottle and cork alcohol.

[LadyWYT]

8 hours ago, bluespruce786 said:

Re alcohol as a cure for freezing: It would be nice if it removed the symptoms of freezing, frost vision and audible complaint when taking cold damage, but actually reduced your tolerance for cold. That way you could use it to complete whatever task brings you outside on such a cold day at the risk of not noticing how much damage you are taking from the weather. 

I'd actually been thinking on this. I know that in real life, the reason that alcohol warms you up is that it's wicking more of your internal heat away from your core, hence why it makes you freeze faster if you don't remove yourself from the cold. I'm not entirely sure how to translate that particular mechanic to in-game though, or if it would even be very fun. As it stands, the game's freezing mechanic is a nuisance if you're prepared for it, given that you'll need to stop what you're doing outdoors every so often and go warm up. It can be downright deadly if you're unprepared. The best solution I've thought of there in regards to alcohol is let alcohol(and potentially other hot beverages) provide a small immediate boost to warmth. Drinking more in one sitting could mitigate more cold. It would be useful in regards to getting things done around base in wintertime, or short hunting trips, as now you can just take a drink and keep going rather than having to stop and light a fire. The drawback though is that you'll need to use at least one inventory slot to carry a beverage with you(and the current jug only holds three servings of a drink), and if it's alcohol you're drinking it's going to make you drunk in the process(thus it's going to be harder to navigate).

Adding on to that--it was mentioned earlier in the thread and I've been toying with the same idea: let alcohol serve as "liquid courage" for combat. It could give a sort of damage absorption when consumed, similar to what golden apples do in the other block game, and allow the player to take an extra hit or two. The bar can be replenished by taking another drink, and otherwise disappears when you sober up. It would be quite obtainable in the early game and offer an appealing option for defense until the player is able to build sturdier armor, as well as still being viable in the later game outside of roleplaying. The drawback is that to keep the absorption meter full, you'd need to carry alcohol with you and take time to drink it, and it's going to be harder to run around and hit your target when you're very drunk.

The other effect I might give alcohol--a hidden drunkeness meter similar to the freezing meter(which, that kind of meter may already exist, I'm not sure how the drunk effects are coded). In any case, if that meter becomes mostly full(80% or more), I'd say the player begins blacking out(the edges of the screen start to darken), with the player passing out completely if the meter is filled completely. After sleeping off the stupor(a couple of in-game hours/enough for the meter to decrease to mostly empty), the player then wakes back up(assuming they didn't die while passed out). Having a mechanic like that would not only give alcohol some more practical uses in the game, but would also give players a reason not to overindulge.

[traugdor]

I think waking up from a stupor should give a temporary blindness effect... similar to a hangover.

[LadyWYT]

28 minutes ago, traugdor said:

I think waking up from a stupor should give a temporary blindness effect... similar to a hangover.

For a hangover it'd just be a matter of having the player wake back up with the drunken meter still full enough to be causing screen distortions. However, I would say the other side effects of passing out are enough of a punishment as it is with what I laid out. Assuming nothing kills you while you're sleeping it off, you're still going to be losing hunger while passed out, and may be in the process of freezing to death if you passed out in cold weather.

[Wahazar]

Maybe alcohol would stop decreasing sanity level in case of temporal instability (in exchange of side effects and maybe HP decrease if overused)?

[Bumber]

1 hour ago, Wahazar said:

Maybe alcohol would stop decreasing sanity level in case of temporal instability (in exchange of side effects and maybe HP decrease if overused)?

There's no sanity stat. Temporal stability is unrelated to mental state.

[Wahazar]

1 hour ago, Bumber said:

There's no sanity stat. Temporal stability is unrelated to mental state.

Sanity or temporal stability, whatever it is called, is a player stat, which is gradually decreased due to long exposure to temporal unstable area or temporal storm.

Alcohol should not restore sanity (there is temporal gear for this), but at least should slow down (weak alcohol) or prevent (distilled alcohol) counterclockwise rotation of temporal stability indicator.

[Thorfinn]

The game is at least loosely Lovecraftian, which is why there are areas of greater and lesser instability. Since it increases as depth, it implies the horrors dwell below the mantle, which is currently completely unimplemented.

Anyway, neither Randolph Carter nor any of the other protags seemed to find alcohol to be much help -- the horrors exist independent of your current state of inebriation.

I guess as a game mechanic, you could probably do it, but I'd think in that case, the gear would start spinning faster and faster as you sobered up and faced the horrors you masked with alcohol.

[Wahazar]

Hah, new meaning of "hangover spinning" :)

[Maelstrom]

@Thorfinn The homepage once indicated the game themes were inspired by Lovecraft.  About 12-18 months ago (maybe more) it was changed to "eldritch" inspiration.

[Thorfinn]

Right. Thought at the time it was probably a copyright thing. Thinking more on it, I wondered if it wasn't more that it allowed them to expand beyond just Cthulhu horrors, and escape the sanity angle, having avoided calling stability "sanity."

[Maelstrom]

I doubt it's a copyright thing as Lovecraft's works are in the public domain.  Additionally, I haven't seen anything that would be plagiarism.

[LadyWYT]

2 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Thinking more on it, I wondered if it wasn't more that it allowed them to expand beyond just Cthulhu horrors, and escape the sanity angle, having avoided calling stability "sanity."

I'm thinking this might be why they changed it. "Lovecraftian" brings with it certain expectations, and Vintage Story is branching off into its own thing that I've not quite seen elsewhere.

7 hours ago, Wahazar said:

Alcohol should not restore sanity (there is temporal gear for this), but at least should slow down (weak alcohol) or prevent (distilled alcohol) counterclockwise rotation of temporal stability indicator.

5 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I guess as a game mechanic, you could probably do it, but I'd think in that case, the gear would start spinning faster and faster as you sobered up and faced the horrors you masked with alcohol.

Getting back on the thread topic--I'm in @Thorfinn's camp on this one. Temporal stability is a whole different matter and we already have a way to restore our stability via temporal gears(at the cost of the item and some health, of course). Plus while alcohol should have some obvious benefits, I really don't think the player should be encouraged to have their character be drunk all the time. I suppose if alcohol slowed the rate at which temporal stability is lost, it would be somewhat of a situational thing that you'd likely be using either during a temporal storm or exploring underground.

In the case of a temporal storm though, a combat utility would be much better since they don't last that long and if you're out in them you're probably killing drifters in the hopes of getting some rare drops. And assuming drinking too much makes the player pass out, a temporal storm really isn't a time you want to be passed out as it likely means your death.

As for exploring underground...losing stability at a slower rate would help you stay underground longer, but most trips underground(in my experience) really aren't that long. It's also a main theme of the game that the deeper you go the more dangerous it gets; you're not meant to be underground for long periods of time. And much like a temporal storm, the underground isn't a spot you want to pass out in, and the drunken visual effects are going to make whatever you're doing more difficult as well(for a fairly insignificant bonus, if you're drinking just to slow the stability loss).