jumpityjumpjump Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Hello! I want to suggest that if the Handbook could have more information in it, such that having to look in the Vintage Story Wiki, or forums for answers would be helpful. Perhaps some of the more detailed information and suggestions in the Wiki that tells you how to do things could be blacked out with a spoiler tag for the in game handbook. Also, the search in the game Handbook, and using the SHIFT+H keyboard shortcut frequently does not work in 1.19.5 on Linux. My point is, that it would be nice to not have to go outside the game for information needed. Thank you for considering this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumber Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Wiki tends to be outdated, so it's not very useful most of the time anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpityjumpjump Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 Hello Bumber, As a new player, I'm not sure that I've played enough to notice the Wiki it is not up to date besides dry, dirty, gravel not being listed. It does though explain in much more detail how to do things that the game Handbook does not go into. I've referenced the Wiki a lot as a new player, such that I would politely disagree that it is not very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetwind Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 What Bumber likely meant with "outdated" is that the ingame handbook is maintained and updated by the development team, but the wiki is maintained and updated exclusively by community volunteers. This means that when new content is introduced in an update, the handbook is likely to have the info available immediately, whereas the wiki will only have it once some random player with wiki edit privileges feels motivated to log in and make the change. For major features and exciting mechanics that many people interact with frequently, that can happen fairly quickly - within days of release, even. For obscure mechanics, it can take a very long time. Partially because the community might first need to reverse-engineer how the mechanic even works in order to be able to explain it, and when it's something that almost nobody uses, that knowledge might simply not be available. Example: there's a lightning rod in the game that the player can make. Most players are unaware that it exists. The item was first added in 1.17.0-pre.1 on June 14th, 2022, and the recipe to make it was immediately added to the handbook in that release. The wiki page about it was first created on June 16th, 2023 - literally a year later. And even then the page merely said "this item exists and it can protect you from ightning strikes". It did not give any advice on how to set up the rod correctly so it actually protects an area. That part was only added by yours truly a mere three weeks ago on March 14th 2024, after I saw someone complain on reddit how the lightning rod is completely broken and unfunctional (as a result of not knowing how to set it up properly). And I only knew what to write there because I lurk on Discord and saw a bunch of people doing sourcecode sleuthing to figure out its mechanics. As a result, you should take everything on the wiki with a grain of salt. On one hand, it's a great resource that goes into far more detail on how stuff works than the ingame handbook ever could; on the other hand, there is no oversight from the devs that ensures that the information on the wiki is up to date, or even factually correct. If you find something on the wiki that doesn't work ingame, that's most likely why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 Bees don't work quite as given in the Wiki either. It's close enough for most purposes, but understanding how distance, swarming and honey production really works means you can radically improve on the standard repeating 2 flowers between skeps pattern. Not really worth the hassle, though, unless you are interested in exploiting the mechanism for some reason. The limiting factor is still reed gathering, not the footprint of the apiary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, Thorfinn said: understanding how distance, swarming and honey production really works means you can radically improve on the standard repeating 2 flowers between skeps pattern. For curiosity's sake - what are some of those some of those mechanics? btw: I find 3 stacks of reed production (planted in water) is barely enough to keep up with demands of a 16 skep apiary in the traditional 2 gap apiary pattern, so I'm not intending to change my current production model. Edited April 2 by Maelstrom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) I'll have to look at my notes at work tomorrow, but off the top of my head, you get more rows above the hive than below. In Survival, you can plant flowers every other Z, for a total of 4 layers of flowers above and 4 below. You also get 8 flowers N and W of the hive, and 7 S and E, if I'm remembering the directions properly. With over 1500 flowers, the honey production is nearly instantaneous. As soon as it counts flowers, it's ready to harvest. But even with just 500 flowers, it's pretty darned quick. Also, and here is the exploity one, if you put a populated hive in your pack slots, then replace it, it will determine the population after 1 game hour when it counts the flowers in range. That means after it swarms, you go from low to high population and swarming in 1 game hour. Really nice for getting the initial hives going. Just pick up the hive after it swarms and put it back wherever there's an empty skep in range. In your case, the number of populated skeps would be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, so you if you can click reasonably quickly, you can populate every skep in your apiary in under 5 game hours. Thus why I need so many reeds... [EDIT] Don't know when it changed, as I have not been exploiting the mechanic, but it looks like in 1.19, you only get 5 rows above and 5 rows below now, so a total of 5 rows of flowers max. Times 256 flowers per row. Somewhere north of 1250 or so? That's still a lot of flowers to collect. Around 20 full stacks. Thinking about it, that's probably the change I first noticed in 1.18, when I had to make sure the empty skep was closer to the wild hive. Used to be 7 or 8 below, but now I was having to build a platform to get flowers and the empty skep close enough to the wild hive to swarm. [/EDIT] Edited April 3 by Thorfinn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 8 hours ago, Maelstrom said: btw: I find 3 stacks of reed production (planted in water) Is there a difference whether you plant in water or land? Not that it really makes much difference. I'm not going to be harvesting a whole lot of roots until I have an iron knife, just the occasional; lone singletons to make a formation better suited for the scythe. When you say 3 stacks, are you talking about 192 reeds, or are you talking about some scythe-based formation of sets of n by 3 reeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 Indeed reeds grow faster in water. At least they did in 1.17 and I doubt it's changed since. 3 stacks = 192 reeds; yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpityjumpjump Posted April 9 Author Report Share Posted April 9 Thank you for the explanation Streetwind. It is a shame that the wiki is volunteer updated only. As for sure, a lot the details and suggestions of how to use certain things that the handbook does not go into is helpful for me. Though I have seen items in the handbook without enough information. Ruined items is a good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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