Temporal storms... just... why?

[TFT]

On 12/20/2025 at 5:35 AM, MKMoose said:

I'm gonna twist this right around and say that it is indirectly an excellent argument for creating a short opportunity right as the storm starts to collect a unique resource.

To pull my comment on STALKER again this is basically that. After surviving the cosmic dangerous weather event you can run outside and go searching for anomalies since they are most plentiful right after an emission. It's just hard to find a "what" that's meaningful to the context of VS without just inventing some magic doodlydoo contrivance whether that's an item or an activity unique to storms. I dunno, could enchant rusty gears to temporal gears by killing monsters around it. I like the idea of speeding up time based processes, like a bottle of time from some MC mod, and sacrifice stability to do so. Maybe a nether equivalent dimension you can only hop into during a storm for whatever resources/lore.

Whatever it is, it shouldn't be free or easy since this is an unnatural disaster event. You're either killing monsters, risking your life, and otherwise spending something not easy to get back fast like health and stability which the storm will drain one way or another. Just literally something to do or gain besides kill monsters for chump change or hide in a hole for your five to ten minute timeout. I dont mind difficulty or tedium if it actually produces something for my efforts, after all, we're playing a video game. I dont see the downside to expanding the temporal/eldritch horror stuff to be its own set of gameplay to make storms meaningful.

[CastIronFabric]

On 12/20/2025 at 7:54 AM, Loosebearings said:

Starting with the lore side of things... The storms right now feel like they're just there to inconvenience the player, they aren't a threat to wildlife, nor a threat to traders (I know traders probably shouldn't die, but they could atleast act like they're scared of storms). The storms ramping up in difficulty each time doesn't make much sense either since temporal storms seem to have been happening for decades, even centuries at this point, why haven't they reached the maximum long before the seraph appeared? It feels too tied to the player instead of tied to the surrounding world and it seems intent on only causing a bad day for you.

I think rift activity should be tied to temporal storms, with monsters becoming more active as a storm grows closer, then dropping after a storm passes. Im not too deep into the lore just yet, but the temporal storms seem to just be a giant rift, with both letting the rust world bleed into our own. This would also let players gauge when the next storm will be at any time in the cycle, and not just by the chat messages the day before. Something like the storm skybox & Dave flickering in and out in the hours before a storm alongside the chat messages (or ideally replacing them) could work as an in-lore way of alerting players to an incoming storm. Also don't have monsters spawn inside the walls of my base, or atleast inside my house. That would fix around 90% of the problems with storms.

And just as a final thing to add on. How about temporal storms advancing the time required of certain processes? Think crop growth, sealed barrels, pit kilns and charcoal. This could add something minor to help the player, and make storms something more than a purely 'evil' force out to get you, but instead it just is, uncaring on whether it helps or hurts you.

I could be wrong here but if I had to bet I would bet that most players of Vintage Story do not care about the 'lore'. Now by lore I do NOT mean no traders, no ruins, no monsters, I am talking about the 'lore' as in the story or why the traders are there etc. I think the majority of players are cool with having traders and maybe even want them improved but I doubt most people even know the 'lore' regarding why those traders are even there.

I also think the majority of players do not care for storms and are really not looking for storms to improve, just go away.

I do think most players do want a reason to make good armor, have good weapons, maybe even buff up with Alchemy mod.  However, much like MC, I think most people do not come here for the combat. I think most people who really are into combat focused game play likely are playing different games.

I bring that up because I think its helpful to know the audience, read the room so to speak.

Also, when I played 7 Days to Die more than 10 years ago I felt that a game needed that 'hurry up before its too late tonight!' rush. However when I started to play lets say Stationeers for example or even Planet Crafter I noticed that we do not need to have to have a hidey hole every night in order to have a high urgency cadence, its really just a todo list and if you want to get your todos done then you will have whatever cadence you can handle to get it done. So in my view its actually NOT a game improvement to require the player to run to a hidey hole to stare at a wall for 10 mins doing nothing. Many just think it is because of what many grew up with. Its psychologically hard to step back and say 'yeah, that was awesome back in the day but what if we didnt do that? Maybe what we just think the local buffet in town is the best ever only because its the only one we have ever eaten at (so to speak).

What would I do for a game such as this? I would have a 'I go to the hostiles, they do not come to me' policy. So for example, in Wurm, you set up your property deed, get some spirt guards and almost never have to worry about fighting while you are tying to improve all your tools at the forge. I would simplify it even more, just not have hostile NPC come into or spawn in a deeded area..period and done.

Finally, I think we all (myself included) greatly under estimate the psychological impact of having our cadence interrupted, be it a cut scene in a AAA game, a phone call in real life, a NPC monster slapping you in the face while you are looking for that one flax fiber. Its actually not healthy and not enjoyable despite us convincing ourself that it is, we are liying to ourselves on that front.

Anyway, writing this long winded reply gave me something to do for a bit to keep me out of trouble.

Thanks

[QueenGeeBee]

I just hope big changes happen to them. Theyre really unfun to deal with, which should be the number 1 priority of all mandatory mechanics

[LadyWYT]

On 12/21/2025 at 10:19 AM, CastIronFabric said:

I could be wrong here but if I had to bet I would bet that most players of Vintage Story do not care about the 'lore'. Now by lore I do NOT mean no traders, no ruins, no monsters, I am talking about the 'lore' as in the story or why the traders are there etc. I think the majority of players are cool with having traders and maybe even want them improved but I doubt most people even know the 'lore' regarding why those traders are even there.

Don't bet on it. While I do agree that a decent chunk of players don't care that much and only want flashy stuff that looks cool, I think there's likely a lot of players that would absolutely notice if the gameplay doesn't match what's being presented in the story. And if the gameplay isn't at all reflecting the world that the story describes, then the story becomes a complete joke that no one really takes seriously, and the game ends up suffering as a result. Skyrim, as fun as it is, suffers from this, as the world presented is fairly weak compared to previous titles, and the player easily ends up with situations like a granny pulling a knife and running out to fight the dragon instead of running indoors to relative safety and letting the guards deal with it. I would place the "Lord of the Rings" and "Hobbit" movies in a similar vein, both compared to the books and each other. The LOTR movies differ a bit from the books since film is a different storytelling medium, however, they do make the effort to match the original story as closely as possible and thus hold up very well. The Hobbit movies kind of follow the books but also deviated quite a lot, so while they're still fun to watch they don't have the staying power of the original lore.

Whatever change is implemented for temporal storms, if a change is even applied, needs to match the lore set forth in the story. While some players may not care, the devs obviously have a story they care deeply about and wish to tell, and telling said story properly should be a priority. Of course, that doesn't mean that gameplay has to be sacrificed, as it's possible to have fun gameplay and tell a good story that remains true to the lore. So far the devs have done an excellent job balancing the gameplay in a way that's true to the lore as well as fairly realistic, while keeping it fun. However, there's no guarantee that the gameplay decisions are going to be the ones that the individual player likes either. 

[Zane Mordien]

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Whatever change is implemented for temporal storms, if a change is even applied, needs to match the lore set forth in the story.

The lore is so vauge, that wouldn't be very hard. That is the genuis of the existing game lore. It is so vague that they can do about whatever they want. Bowtorns and Shivers were not in any description or lore before they were added and "poof" they fit in. They could go full steam punk and the lore would accomidate it. Not that I think they will, but the lore doesn't say it doesn't exist. If night vision goggles fit into the lore, then what doesn't fit?

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, Zane Mordien said:

The lore is so vauge, that wouldn't be very hard. That is the genuis of the existing game lore. It is so vague that they can do about whatever they want. Bowtorns and Shivers were not in any description or lore before they were added and "poof" they fit in. They could go full steam punk and the lore would accomidate it. Not that I think they will, but the lore doesn't say it doesn't exist. If night vision goggles fit into the lore, then what doesn't fit?

Pretty much. The absolute lore-breaker solution is removing the storms entirely, which can't be done without some major rewrites(not ideal). That leaves the question of, if the mechanic does get changed, then how does that change happen in a way that satisfies most players? The main hurdle I see there is that unique items critical to the story can't be added as unique storm loot since then there's no option for players to turn off storms and complete the story, and it's not really possible to add unique cosmetic drops to the storm loot table as then you get complaints from the same players about not having access to the goodies. Likewise, just forcing the player into storm combat doesn't seem like a great solution either, as that will most likely encourage more players to turn the mechanic off.

The ideal solution, I think, would be something that strikes a balance between granting a better reward for facing the storm head-on, while still giving more cautious/passive players some passive options to deal with it and thus encourage the passive ones to try the mechanic instead of turning it off every game. And that's in addition to keeping the overall "looming supernatural disaster" flavor the storms have in the lore.

How to accomplish that? I'm honestly not sure. Perhaps some wooden stakes and palisades could be added to the game, along with other fortifications, and the player could use them to reduce the likelihood of monsters spawning within the fortified area. In that fashion, a player could reasonably invest some time and resources in the early game to dig in and fortify an area prior to a temporal storm, and thus have a decent area to actually continue working in when the storm occurs instead of hiding in a bunker. For a proper bunker option, add fortified doors that lock from the inside, and prevent monster spawns in that space as long as all points of entry are secured via locked doors.

[CastIronFabric]

6 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Don't bet on it. While I do agree that a decent chunk of players don't care that much and only want flashy stuff that looks cool, I think there's likely a lot of players that would absolutely notice if the gameplay doesn't match what's being presented in the story....

I disagree completely. 

we would need to get a survey on that somehow based on a test that prooves what people say is actually their interest. Maybe some test questions or something

 

In fact, lets do that right now. 

Lore wise, why do traders exists and how did you find out the reason?

Edited December 22, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[LadyWYT]

32 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

Lore wise, why do traders exists and how did you find out the reason?

Lorewise, traders exist because they're the ones hardy and brave enough to fend for themselves in the wilderness while transferring goods from place to place. Unless I'm mistaken, it's also implied that the traders sprouted from remnants of the Hanseatic League, which is stated to have used their trading vessels to carry people to safety(or at least, attempt to) during the events of the Old World. There's also just the aspect that wherever there is civilization, there will be trade involved.

Traders also exist thanks to the efforts of Jonas Falx and his associates in the Old World, since if Jonas's project failed there wouldn't exactly be anyone left to start civilization anew.

As to how to figure all of that out...simply by playing the game with lore enabled, and then actually paying attention to how things are described and what dialogue/narrative text actually says.

40 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

I disagree completely. 

we would need to get a survey on that somehow based on a test that prooves what people say is actually their interest. Maybe some test questions or something

That's perfectly fine, but in order to get anything really useful out of a survey, it would need to be posted by Tyron or another developer in order to actually gain traction. Dev posts tend to get the most player interaction; posts by regular users are pretty hit-or-miss.

With all due respect, since Tyron and Saraty are building their dream game, I think their interests are what should come first. Clearly, they have a story they really want to tell, and think is important to the game. If they want to put certain things to a community vote that's fine, and if they want to just forge ahead with a specific plan without a community vote I think that's fine too. But I don't think it's fair to just throw the lore/story out the window entirely when making design decisions just because some players only care about the gameplay and not about the world-building.

[williams_482]

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

The ideal solution, I think, would be something that strikes a balance between granting a better reward for facing the storm head-on, while still giving more cautious/passive players some passive options to deal with it and thus encourage the passive ones to try the mechanic instead of turning it off every game. And that's in addition to keeping the overall "looming supernatural disaster" flavor the storms have in the lore.

How to accomplish that? I'm honestly not sure. Perhaps some wooden stakes and palisades could be added to the game, along with other fortifications, and the player could use them to reduce the likelihood of monsters spawning within the fortified area. In that fashion, a player could reasonably invest some time and resources in the early game to dig in and fortify an area prior to a temporal storm, and thus have a decent area to actually continue working in when the storm occurs instead of hiding in a bunker. For a proper bunker option, add fortified doors that lock from the inside, and prevent monster spawns in that space as long as all points of entry are secured via locked doors.

As someone who currently just shuts the storms off, I agree with this. There are several things that would make storms a significantly more tolerable inconvenience, one that I would consider leaving on even without some extra rewards:

- They should be predictable several days in advance. Not with perfect precision, but our seraphs should know (and be shown) the same information that we players could derive from knowing the temporal storm cadence set for the world. I want to be able to know, for example, how risky it would be to set out on a multi-day trip now vs staying home until right after the next storm. 

- It should be possible to do normal indoor things in a smallish home during a temporal storm without being jumped by something that spawned in right behind you. No monsters spawning within (for example) ten blocks of the player would mean that a typical room is always safe to do panning, smithing, cooking, etc. You can then experience the atmosphere and suffer the inconvenience of the storm while doing things you probably would have done some time soon anyway.

- Temporal storm monsters should scale with player progression somehow, perhaps with story progression benchmarks. The fact that a light temporal storm will still spawn large numbers of monsters strong enough that a typical player would struggle to 1v1 them with a flint spear is fairly absurd. The downside here is that the double headed drifter's drops are the one real reward for fighting through a temporal storm right now, and I don't think that should be locked behind a trip to the second story location. 

Edited December 23, 2025 by williams_482

[LadyWYT]

10 minutes ago, williams_482 said:

They should be predictable several days in advance. Not with perfect precision, but our seraphs should know (and be shown) the same information that we players could derive from knowing the temporal storm cadence set for the world. I want to be able to know, for example, how risky it would be to set out on a multi-day trip now vs staying home until right after the next storm.

They kind of are, but it hinges on the player having a very good memory and taking notes on when a storm occurs, and then making an educated guess on the time window the next is due to arrive. I have a good memory, but I'd rather see some sort of device that can give the player a rough estimate of the next storm's arrival, give or take a couple of days to keep it interesting. That would not only make tracking storms much easier, but make it much easier to just jump back into the game and pick up where you left off if you haven't played in a while.

I forget who mentioned it earlier, but the idea about rift activity kicking up when there's a temporal storm incoming is a great one. A brief period of high activity shouldn't be anything to worry about, but an extended period of high activity should definitely cause some concern.

16 minutes ago, williams_482 said:

- It should be possible to do normal indoor things in a smallish home during a temporal storm without being jumped by something that spawned in right behind you. No monsters spawning within (for example) ten blocks of the player would mean that a typical room is always safe to do panning, smithing, cooking, etc. You can then experience the atmosphere and suffer the inconvenience of the storm while doing things you probably would have done some time soon anyway.

I like this presentation. Ten blocks is definitely enough to keep a small room safe, or give enough buffer to maneuver around outside without getting jumped as much, but not so great that it can be cheesed to render storms utterly toothless. Or if nothing else, give the monsters a spawn animation(I think this has also been suggested before) and let them take a few seconds to crawl out of the walls/floor/ceiling. In that case, the inside is still dangerous, but the occasional monster unfortunate enough to spawn inside with the player can either be quickly killed while spawning, or softened up enough to be dispatched shortly after.

 

24 minutes ago, williams_482 said:

- Temporal storm monsters should scale with player progression somehow, perhaps with story progression benchmarks. The fact that a light temporal storm will still spawn large numbers of monsters strong enough that a typical player would struggle to 1v1 them with a flint spear is fairly absurd. The downside here is that the double headed drifter's drops are the one real reward for fighting through a temporal storm right now, and I don't think that should be locked behind a trip to the second story location. 

Honestly I don't think they should scale with story/player progression, at least not directly, as realistically there are things that the player won't be able to handle without preparing for it first. Vintage Story doesn't really pull too many punches in that regard. However...

In terms of temporal storm strength and how it scales though...the first storms will almost always be light, medium if the player is unlucky. Perhaps instead of scaling the storms directly with player progression, the storm strength instead determines what tiers of enemies are most likely to spawn. Light storms can spawn tier 0-2, medium could spawn tier 1-3, and heavy could spawn tier 3+. Special monsters like the double-headed drifter could still spawn in any storm, of course, but have higher chances of spawning in heavier storms than they do lighter. In that case, I think the player could be faced with opponents appropriate for their equipment level at the time, in way that feels more natural than just locking it to a story event. Given how much time it takes for storms to ramp up in strength on Standard difficulty, the player should have plenty of time to get themselves out of the stone age and acquire bronze/iron gear by the time the storms start getting particularly nasty.

The more I think about it, the more I like what you've suggested. It keeps the lore behind the storms intact, while giving more options to passive/cautious players. At the same time, it also gives more options to the aggressive types. I know I would appreciate having a buffer radius between me and the fresh spawns, because I get jumped frequently while fighting. And if the nastier storms are what spawned the tougher monsters, that would make for better late game storms(no wimpy enemies allowed), albeit more dangerous ones(which by this time the player really should have decent enough equipment to handle them).

[ifoz]

I like the idea of rifts actually appearing during storms (maybe a certain distance from the player?) and then having enemies emerge from them and attempt to path toward you.
That feels more in line with the established lore of storms, where they are said to be something like a raid/tower defence event. In current gameplay they don't feel like this at all since enemies can spawn wherever they want.

I think that single change would really help storms feel more integrated with the sandbox gameplay. I don't think they really need a special reward item for going out into them since making the Rust World useful or helpful in any way seems kind of counterintuitive to the lore (at least as of 1.21, maybe some day there will be some mcguffin related to the Rust that is needed for story stuff).

Edited December 23, 2025 by ifoz

[CastIronFabric]

12 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Lorewise, traders exist because they're the ones hardy and brave enough to fend for themselves in the wilderness while transferring goods from place to place. Unless I'm mistaken, it's also implied that the traders sprouted from remnants of the Hanseatic League, which is stated to have used their trading vessels to carry people to safety(or at least, attempt to) during the events of the Old World. There's also just the aspect that wherever there is civilization, there will be trade involved.

Traders also exist thanks to the efforts of Jonas Falx and his associates in the Old World, since if Jonas's project failed there wouldn't exactly be anyone left to start civilization anew.

As to how to figure all of that out...simply by playing the game with lore enabled, and then actually paying attention to how things are described and what dialogue/narrative text actually says.

That's perfectly fine, but in order to get anything really useful out of a survey, it would need to be posted by Tyron or another developer in order to actually gain traction. Dev posts tend to get the most player interaction; posts by regular users are pretty hit-or-miss.

With all due respect, since Tyron and Saraty are building their dream game, I think their interests are what should come first. Clearly, they have a story they really want to tell, and think is important to the game. If they want to put certain things to a community vote that's fine, and if they want to just forge ahead with a specific plan without a community vote I think that's fine too. But I don't think it's fair to just throw the lore/story out the window entirely when making design decisions just because some players only care about the gameplay and not about the world-building.

follow up questions.

1. to be clear what you are saying regarding traders is something your read, not something you are applying your own interpretation to given other story events. For a lack of a better way to say this, you read most of this somewhere in the game or in dialogue as it DIRECTLY relates to traders.

2. Do you think the majority of players (naturally meaning more than 50%) are aware of this TRADER SPECIFIC lore in game not personally interpreted lore?

The general feel I am trying to get from these questions is this: Do you think the majority of players would feel a deep lacking in game play experience if the traders did not have in game literal lore attached to them or do you think the majority of the players (not all but the majority) simply see traders and NPCs to trade with that that is the end of that.

Edited December 23, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[CastIronFabric]

16 hours ago, Zane Mordien said:

The lore is so vauge, that wouldn't be very hard. That is the genuis of the existing game lore. It is so vague that they can do about whatever they want. Bowtorns and Shivers were not in any description or lore before they were added and "poof" they fit in. They could go full steam punk and the lore would accomidate it. Not that I think they will, but the lore doesn't say it doesn't exist. If night vision goggles fit into the lore, then what doesn't fit?

I think we need to put the 'lore' part of storms on hold for a second and ask ourselves honestly this

'what do people DO during storms'? from a mechanistic standpoint what does storms add to your in game actions and decision trees and does that improve the game play from a mechanical standpoint.

[Zane Mordien]

12 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Traders also exist thanks to the efforts of Jonas Falx and his associates in the Old World, since if Jonas's project failed there wouldn't exactly be anyone left to start civilization anew.

I know this isn't the place for a lore discussion, but I'm not sure Jonas is the savior. Usually the "savior" in a dark story turns out to be the one that actually caused the clamity to start with and manipulated the situation to take power.

 

27 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

1. to be clear what you are saying regarding traders is something your read, not something you are applying your own interpretation to given other story events. For a lack of a better way to say this, you read most of this somewhere in the game or in dialogue as it DIRECTLY relates to traders.

I can't find it at the moment, but I think her description sounds correct. Although, lets be frank. The traders lore is pathetic at the moment the way they are everywhere even when it doesn't make sense. I do believe that will be fixed in the next few releases as they develop the game and story so the traders can fit in better.

 

5 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

I think we need to put the 'lore' part of storms on hold for a second and ask ourselves honestly this

'what do people DO during storms'? from a mechanistic standpoint what does storms add to your in game actions and decision trees and does that improve the game play from a mechanical standpoint.

IMO the storm needs some way that you can interact with it if it is going to be that long. The first storm should be a terror like it is, but after the storm you should be able to figure something out so that future storms are different somehow. Maybe every storm you survive you become more 'attuned' with the storm and you can run faster and take less damage. Or you start on a early game quest that allows you to become more attuned with the storm for the same affect. That would give you a choice, do I work to on this quest to make the storms more survivable without being stuck in a hole or do I look for bronze and iron.

Not everything has to improve the game play. Sometimes the game has to have an obstacle or it's too easy. Right now the storm though to me is less obstacle and more of a time out, which is what I think you are getting at. Lore wise the storm can be anything, so anything fits in the lore. 

[CastIronFabric]

2 hours ago, Zane Mordien said:

IMO the storm needs some way that you can interact with it if it is going to be that long. The first storm should be a terror like it is, but after the storm you should be able to figure something out so that future storms are different somehow. Maybe every storm you survive you become more 'attuned' with the storm and you can run faster and take less damage. Or you start on a early game quest that allows you to become more attuned with the storm for the same affect. That would give you a choice, do I work to on this quest to make the storms more survivable without being stuck in a hole or do I look for bronze and iron.

 

as long as that feature remains a setting I can turn off then I suppose you all can discuss how the storms should be. I would however like to interject a few things.

1. outside of 'lore' would the game be hurt if they just removed storms completely rather than trying to make it work better?

2. speaking for myself, I would not want this game to go in the same direction as 7 Days to Die. I love that game (the older versions) but I personally am not intrested in playing another one with similar sweat and worry. That is just my opinon.

3. I wonder what most people actually DO during a storm.

 

Edited December 23, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[Zane Mordien]

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

1. outside of 'lore' would the game be hurt if they just removed storms completely rather than trying to make it work better?

Since they intentionally made storms harder in 1.20, I don't believe they will ever remove them. I don't know how they decide to change things but they did tone them down from the original 1.20.1 launch. Someone else can answer when temporal storms were added, but I assume around 1.15? 

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

3. I wonder what most people actually DO during a storm.

I bought the game it was 1.18.

1.18 I made a kill room with half fighting area and killed them slowly. Not super fun but it was something to do. I moved on to rooms in a pit where water forced them into a kill box and pushed the loot into the safe room.

1.19 I grabbed a inventory full of spears and had a blast running around in the storm and killing drifters. Go back to 1.19 and do a temporal storm. 

1.20 & 1.21 I go to my storm hole and watch Youtube videos. At some point when I have Blackguard armor or iron chain I may build a fighting area with fences and walls and then a kill a few of them in a "controlled" environment, but it's not really much fun. I'm sure there are much better cheese factories then what I do. 

Edited December 23, 2025 by Zane Mordien

[CastIronFabric]

1 hour ago, Zane Mordien said:

Since they intentionally made storms harder in 1.20, I don't believe they will ever remove them. I don't know how they decide to change things but they did tone them down from the original 1.20.1 launch. Someone else can answer when temporal storms were added, but I assume around 1.15? 

I bought the game it was 1.18.

1.18 I made a kill room with half fighting area and killed them slowly. Not super fun but it was something to do. I moved on to rooms in a pit where water forced them into a kill box and pushed the loot into the safe room.

1.19 I grabbed a inventory full of spears and had a blast running around in the storm and killing drifters. Go back to 1.19 and do a temporal storm. 

1.20 & 1.21 I go to my storm hole and watch Youtube videos. At some point when I have Blackguard armor or iron chain I may build a fighting area with fences and walls and then a kill a few of them in a "controlled" environment, but it's not really much fun. I'm sure there are much better cheese factories then what I do. 

well I should not go to far down this rabbit hole. I would just suggest for those who are thinking of ideas for the storms they might want to add to the list 'just not have them' and if that is not appealing maybe list why. I will refrain from speaking more on the subject.

I know this entire conversation is purely academic by the way.

Edited December 23, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[MKMoose]

6 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

7 hours ago, williams_482 said:

- It should be possible to do normal indoor things in a smallish home during a temporal storm without being jumped by something that spawned in right behind you. No monsters spawning within (for example) ten blocks of the player would mean that a typical room is always safe to do panning, smithing, cooking, etc. You can then experience the atmosphere and suffer the inconvenience of the storm while doing things you probably would have done some time soon anyway.

I like this presentation. Ten blocks is definitely enough to keep a small room safe, or give enough buffer to maneuver around outside without getting jumped as much, but not so great that it can be cheesed to render storms utterly toothless. Or if nothing else, give the monsters a spawn animation(I think this has also been suggested before) and let them take a few seconds to crawl out of the walls/floor/ceiling. In that case, the inside is still dangerous, but the occasional monster unfortunate enough to spawn inside with the player can either be quickly killed while spawning, or softened up enough to be dispatched shortly after.

Just for reference, by default no entities can spawn within 18 blocks blocks of the player, however, this minimum distance doesn't apply at low stability and doesn't affect spawns caused by rifts. If the player has less than 0.125 stability, rotbeasts are made to only spawn within 10 blocks of the player, except on the surface where they can only spawn anywhere within 20 blocks of rifts (or within 6 blocks of rifts if it's daytime). And on top of that, of course, storms use a separate spawning system.

I think having the monsters announce themselves in one way or another is more important than minimum distance, because as long as they're silent then it doesn't matter much whether they spawn right by or a few blocks away. A small safe range would also be nice regardless, even just ~3 blocks, though 10 blocks seems somewhat excessive to me as it just makes it really easy to prevent all spawns within a reasonably sized house house.

 

Keep in mind that allowing the player to do more regular activities in the safety of their home inevitably further reduces the incentive or need to interact with storms. A lot of suggestions that I've seen are quite fine, e.g. more involved ways to protect against storms would be beneficial (although be careful about imposing limitations on creative building), but most of them fundamentally fail to effectively address the one complaint about temporal storms that gets repeated ad infinitum here and elsewhere - they restrict player agency and give practically nothing in return. Even rare spawns during storms have almost nothing interesting about them, as the same loot and more can be obtained underground.

There's plenty of ways to improve storms and make them more immersive, more atmospheric and so on, a few of which I have suggested myself. However, if making storms engaging or interesting is the goal (and it is for me at least), then no roundabout solution will have nearly the same effect as actually just incentivizing people to do something new or unique during storms.

[QueenGeeBee]

Could make the riftward stop the storm from existing within its radius. I dunno if that breaks lore but who builds riftwards anyways.

[LadyWYT]

11 hours ago, Zane Mordien said:

I know this isn't the place for a lore discussion, but I'm not sure Jonas is the savior. Usually the "savior" in a dark story turns out to be the one that actually caused the clamity to start with and manipulated the situation to take power.

Oh I know. I tried to keep things relatively spoiler-free when writing up that response though.

 

11 hours ago, Zane Mordien said:

IMO the storm needs some way that you can interact with it if it is going to be that long. The first storm should be a terror like it is, but after the storm you should be able to figure something out so that future storms are different somehow. Maybe every storm you survive you become more 'attuned' with the storm and you can run faster and take less damage. Or you start on a early game quest that allows you to become more attuned with the storm for the same affect. That would give you a choice, do I work to on this quest to make the storms more survivable without being stuck in a hole or do I look for bronze and iron.

Not everything has to improve the game play. Sometimes the game has to have an obstacle or it's too easy. Right now the storm though to me is less obstacle and more of a time out, which is what I think you are getting at. Lore wise the storm can be anything, so anything fits in the lore. 

This is why I really like what @williams_482 suggested(and @ifoz as well), enough to actually change my mind about storms. While I still think the current system is solid, I would rather see their suggested changes instead, since the changes smooth out the gameplay significantly while remaining true to what the storms are: terrifying lore obstacles.

 

9 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

1. outside of 'lore' would the game be hurt if they just removed storms completely rather than trying to make it work better?

Honestly, if the game is just going to ignore its own lore and worldbuilding in favor of whatever the most convenient gameplay option is for the player, it might as well just be a mediocre reskin of the other block game. The lore, whether one loves it or hates it, is part of what helps set Vintage Story apart from competitors. Given that the storms are teased within the first few seconds of the game's trailer on the homepage, as well as this statement:

Quote

A wicked universe backed by original story elements
Take on the role of a lost being in the body of a tall blue creature and discover the remnants of civilization. There is no linear storytelling; it is up to you to piece together who you are and what has happened from the little evidence that remains. During your journey you will encounter wayward creatures, find old stories, battle temporal instability, and endure temporal storms.

It's pretty clear that temporal storms as a mechanic are integral to the game's design. That being said, the home page also lists this statement:

Quote

Not just hardcore!
Vintage Story offers multiple playstyles and a huge amount of customization options when you create a new game world. You have the power to choose a creative experience, a peaceful world, balanced survival, hardcore wilderness survival or quite literally anything inbetween.

Obviously, everyone has different tastes, and not everyone is going to enjoy every mechanic, hence why there are options to disable things like temporal storms if one wishes, or even disable all lore entirely and stick to a strictly realistic survival experience(Homo Sapiens gamemode).

 

9 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

3. I wonder what most people actually DO during a storm.

I have a few stiff drinks and then go staggering around outside battling monsters and laughing at my hunter friend. If neither one of us is equipped to be running around in a temporal storm then we're probably staying indoors bantering about various things, or occasionally just reading the forums because why not.

In singleplayer I'll battle the monsters if I have the equipment, otherwise I'll just take the time to study my map and plan an adventure, or browse through discovered lore bits, or maybe even organize storage(because my storage often makes temporal storms look organized).

5 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

I would just suggest for those who are thinking of ideas for the storms they might want to add to the list 'just not have them' and if that is not appealing maybe list why.

I mean, I pretty much stated the "why" in an earlier post--temporal storms can't just be up and removed/disabled by default, without creating a HUGE plot hole in the story. If the NPCs are frequently referencing temporal storms as these dangerous unnatural occurrences, then there really ought to be something in the game that reflects that, especially when pretty much everything else the NPCs refer to is actually in the game.

In addition to a complete story rewrite, there would also have to be a complete rewrite of the game's advertising. Can't really feature a "world torn asunder by temporal storms" in the trailers and description, if there are no temporal storms to find. 

There's already an option to turn the temporal storms off, for the players who really don't like them. I don't think it's fair to demand that temporal storms(basically a flagship feature of the game) be removed entirely or otherwise disabled by default for everyone just because some players don't like them.

5 hours ago, MKMoose said:

Just for reference, by default no entities can spawn within 18 blocks blocks of the player, however, this minimum distance doesn't apply at low stability and doesn't affect spawns caused by rifts. If the player has less than 0.125 stability, rotbeasts are made to only spawn within 10 blocks of the player, except on the surface where they can only spawn anywhere within 20 blocks of rifts (or within 6 blocks of rifts if it's daytime). And on top of that, of course, storms use a separate spawning system.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, those are pretty important exceptions that would still need to remain in effect. Maybe the rift spawns could be tweaked so the monsters are spawning where the rift actually is, instead of just in the general vicinity? The higher the rift activity, the faster they crawl out of the "hole in the air", as the player character puts it. It seems like the kind of tweak that could help keep the spawns from getting too out of hand, without opening the door to exploiting the mechanic for a monster farm or other exploit.

I could be wrong on the exploit part, but there's nothing immediately that comes to mind in terms of "ways to break this feature".

5 hours ago, MKMoose said:

Keep in mind that allowing the player to do more regular activities in the safety of their home inevitably further reduces the incentive or need to interact with storms. A lot of suggestions that I've seen are quite fine, e.g. more involved ways to protect against storms would be beneficial (although be careful about imposing limitations on creative building), but most of them fundamentally fail to effectively address the one complaint about temporal storms that gets repeated ad infinitum here and elsewhere - they restrict player agency and give practically nothing in return. Even rare spawns during storms have almost nothing interesting about them, as the same loot and more can be obtained underground.

Maybe, but I'm looking at it as more of a way to coax more cautious/passive players into trying a game or two with the storms enabled, so they have a couple more options to ease themselves into that gameplay style comfortably rather than defaulting to just "turn it off" or "sleep through it". Being able to work a few tasks indoors in complete safety is a decent way to build up one's confidence(it's basically how I learned to deal with the storms), and it's also just nice to have as an option instead of feeling pressured to go fight through every single storm.

 

5 hours ago, MKMoose said:

There's plenty of ways to improve storms and make them more immersive, more atmospheric and so on, a few of which I have suggested myself.

Ironically, your suggestion about the "farmable unique resource" did give me an interesting idea:

Spoiler

There seem to be several rumors floating around regarding the abilities of seraphs, that sound like stuff right out of a comic book(control of lightning, massive size, etc). While I suspect those are just tall tales, some of them could be actual abilities that the player unlocks and gets to use during temporal storms or in areas with enough weird temporal mechanics going on(think the Time Switch ability from chapter 2). In order to unlock and strengthen those abilities, or otherwise change them, perhaps the player needs to collect special "temporal shards" or whatever resource that can only be acquired from braving whatever the storm throws at them.

That being said...while what I suggested above does sound fun, it does strike me as a horrible idea(outside of a mod). It's something more befitting a fantasy action game and not really grounded in reality(or pseudo-reality) like most of VS's mechanics are, not to mention that players who turn off temporal storms get locked out of an entire gameplay loop.

 

5 hours ago, QueenGeeBee said:

Could make the riftward stop the storm from existing within its radius. I dunno if that breaks lore but who builds riftwards anyways.

Rift ward doesn't really feel strong enough to create a "safety bubble" from something like a temporal storm, but I could see a more elaborate Jonas device being able to achieve that kind of affect. 

As for who builds rift wards...if you've not built one, you really should, if you have the means to. They're quite effective at cutting down on rusty hooligans, and one or two is enough to protect most bases.

[CastIronFabric]

1 hour ago, LadyWYT said:

Honestly, if the game is just going to ignore its own lore and worldbuilding in favor of whatever the most convenient gameplay option is for the player, it might as well just be a mediocre reskin of the other block game. The lore, whether one loves it or hates it, is part of what helps set Vintage Story apart from competitors. Given that the storms are teased within the first few seconds of the game's trailer on the homepage, as well as this statement:

 

fair enough. Although I disagree that the lore of the game is what sets this apart from the other game. If people think its critical to the game experience and the story to take a break and do nothing when a storm comes in I guess who am I to judge. (edit: to be fair that is why you guys are talking about changes). I just need to do something else because I have no horse in this race.

I do not agree with that assetment at all, but your point about it being part of some story is a fair point.

Edited December 24, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[ifoz]

1 hour ago, LadyWYT said:

As for who builds rift wards...if you've not built one, you really should, if you have the means to. They're quite effective at cutting down on rusty hooligans, and one or two is enough to protect most bases.

A while ago I saw that rift wards got a buff, so I made one in survival to finally try it out.
It's cool and all, but there is now also a new bug where rift wards turn invisible. So I can't actually see the thing I spent all those materials to build. 

[ifoz]

36 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

Although I disagree that the lore of the game is what sets this apart from the other game. If people think its critical to the game experience and the story to take a break and do nothing when a storm comes in I guess who am I to judge.

I mean, the lore isn't only temporal storms. I love the lore of the game but dislike the current storm mechanics! Lore generally refers to the worldbuilding, lore books, tapestries, story locations, ruins, NPCs etc.

[Bumber]

Since we're on the topic of lore: Are drifters, et al, canonically referred to as "rotbeasts", or is that a player assumption?

Haven't played since RA, but the lore from tapestries and books seemed to imply that the rot was an unstoppable spreading affliction, resulting in the host rotting away into black goo. Imagine a wolf with blackened, tar-like ooze dripping off its decaying bones, aggressively spreading super rabies before it eventually succumbs and becomes an unrecognizable puddle. It really captures the horror of an eldritch plague.

Drifters are rusty, not so much "rotting". I don't presume they're contagious, even to non-seraphs. It seems like they should be considered something different, e.g., "rust monsters".

From what I've read on the forums:

Spoiler

I get the impression that the rot is still trying to get back in to the world, and that the drifters are Jonas's failed attempts at seraphs? Drifters clearly don't have trouble getting in, and they spend the rest of their time in a clockwork dimension that's apparently been similarly tainted from how it used to be. Is that to be considered another manifestation of the rot? (It's rot Jim, but not as we know it.)

Edited December 24, 2025 by Bumber

[ifoz]

1 hour ago, Bumber said:

Since we're on the topic of lore: Are drifters, et al, canonically referred to as "rotbeasts", or is that a player assumption?

Player assumption. From what we know the term "rotbeast" is used to describe animals in the early stages of Rot infection, where they are stricken with bouts of madness/anger and pose danger of infecting others.
 

Spoiler

Drifters/shivers/bowtorn are humans warped by the Rust, though they do look a bit Rotten. The Rot is said to turn the skin a grey colour, so I'd wager they were once infected at some point in time.

It also seems that Seraphs were never the intended plan from Jonas' Grand Machine. Our Seraph and Tobias express surprise that Seraphs exist at all (Tobias mentions rumours and folktales about us, and we ourselves are shocked (yet thankful) we have a quote "chance to fight again" in one of the tapestry descriptions). Tobias is the reason we were able to make our way back into this world, due to his tower tearing such a large hole in spacetime.