Upgraded farming

[New123455]

Farming is crucial in Vintage, but is, I think, very simple. Get some seeds and plant them next to water. What if there was a system that would play with there gen, like in Rust. Better Growth, better Yield, better Weather resistance, or all of them but in negative aspect. This would give value to seeds, and give a late-game aspect to cultivations.

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, New123455 said:

Better Growth, better Yield, better Weather resistance, or all of them but in negative aspect. This would give value to seeds, and give a late-game aspect to cultivations.

Welcome to the forums! This is already somewhat of a thing. You need to fence off your crops or else animals will happily invade your farms and eat the plants. Likewise, you also need to make sure there are enough nutrients in the soil for the plant to grow; different plants require different types of nutrients, and low nutrient values mean longer growth times. Additionally, not all crops can tolerate the same climates. Some crops favor hot weather and can't take the cold, while some favor the cold and can't tolerate heat. If the weather gets too hot or too cold, the crop will be damaged and provide less yield at maturity, or it may even die from too much exposure.

For late game farming, you can build greenhouses to extend growing seasons beyond what might be normal for your climate, and invest in terra preta for the highest coil nutrients and fastest growth times. Fertilizers can return nutrients to the soil and are more easily obtained, meaning that crop rotation becomes much less necessary.

[Krougal]

15 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Welcome to the forums! This is already somewhat of a thing. You need to fence off your crops or else animals will happily invade your farms and eat the plants. Likewise, you also need to make sure there are enough nutrients in the soil for the plant to grow; different plants require different types of nutrients, and low nutrient values mean longer growth times. Additionally, not all crops can tolerate the same climates. Some crops favor hot weather and can't take the cold, while some favor the cold and can't tolerate heat. If the weather gets too hot or too cold, the crop will be damaged and provide less yield at maturity, or it may even die from too much exposure.

For late game farming, you can build greenhouses to extend growing seasons beyond what might be normal for your climate, and invest in terra preta for the highest coil nutrients and fastest growth times. Fertilizers can return nutrients to the soil and are more easily obtained, meaning that crop rotation becomes much less necessary.

Oh, it is way beyond VS, it is full blown (although simplified) genetics.

As a veteran Rust player, I am fully familiar with it, and while I appreciated the high-end clones we usually had, I was very happy someone else on the team was into that shit, cause I sure wasn't.

As a mod maybe.

[Murklak]

Haven't played Rust but I have played AgriCraft and my experience is being the only person on the server interested in breeding plants. Everyone else just made a large enough farm to make up for weaker plants. It seems that most people are not fond of those mechanics. I'd love to see it in a mod, though.

Edited August 11, 2025 by Murklak

[Krougal]

1 minute ago, Murklak said:

Haven't played Rust but I have played AgriCraft and my experience is being the only person on the server interested in breeding plants. Everyone else just made a large enough farm to make up for weaker plants. It seems that most people are not fond of those mechanics. I'd love to see it in a mod, though.

AgriCraft! Haven't played with that since...FTB Infinity Evolved?

I remember breeding super potatoes for my rocket fuel operation.

And then like 7 more maxed crops to make MFR bio-fuel out of to feed RailCraft boilers.

Those were the days. I hated that mod

[Echo Weaver]

I could imagine being interested in crop breeding. It combines nicely with animal domestication.

Though, honestly, I'm not sure I'd really be into it. I think the crop nutrients, rotation, and fertilizers are a pretty decent balance between realistic and annoyingly fiddly. Crop breeding would probably be something I'd be interested in to keep a world where I'd already done everything.

[Krougal]

2 hours ago, Echo Weaver said:

I could imagine being interested in crop breeding. It combines nicely with animal domestication.

Though, honestly, I'm not sure I'd really be into it. I think the crop nutrients, rotation, and fertilizers are a pretty decent balance between realistic and annoyingly fiddly. Crop breeding would probably be something I'd be interested in to keep a world where I'd already done everything.

Well the other thing is there aren't really enough resource sinks in the game for it to be worthwhile.

When was the last time you starved in this game? Your first game when you were a raw noob? Did you ever starve after that?

I don't know about you, but after the big initial push for flax, flax, flax, I downsize my fields and I still massively over-produce food.

I think my farm is probably on the small side at 128 blocks, and 32 of them lie fallow any given cycle. I am actually debating cutting that in half, and I bet I would still have plenty for animal husbandry.

I have so much meat between wolves and even killing a small herd of deer brings in like a stack of meat, that there just isn't any benefit to domesticating animals other than it being something to do.

I just don't see any benefit out of it, except for the people who would enjoy it. I wouldn't want it as a base feature, unless changes were made to necessitate it, but people already complain the base hunger rate is too high. I don't think hunting should be nerfed either, as I spend a considerable amount of days hunting (mostly for leather) and I've gotten pretty good at it, other people it might be a hardship for. Maybe if food gave less nutrition and a serving of whatever required more ingredients, but that would likely trigger a mob with torches and pitchforks.

As a mod, sure.

Edited August 11, 2025 by Krougal

[Zane Mordien]

22 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

You need to fence off your crops or else animals will happily invade your farms and eat the plants.

Is this even a thing anymore? I haven't built a fence around my crops in a few playthroughs and I haven't seen any crop damage. Ever since they turned down the rabbits to stop people from farming the meat I barely ever see them near my garden. 

[Krougal]

5 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

Is this even a thing anymore? I haven't built a fence around my crops in a few playthroughs and I haven't seen any crop damage. Ever since they turned down the rabbits to stop people from farming the meat I barely ever see them near my garden. 

No, you are correct. I've stopped fencing mine in for a while now. The beehives too, I haven't had any raccoons show up and raid me.

Edited August 11, 2025 by Krougal

[LadyWYT]

58 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

Is this even a thing anymore? I haven't built a fence around my crops in a few playthroughs and I haven't seen any crop damage. Ever since they turned down the rabbits to stop people from farming the meat I barely ever see them near my garden. 

Honestly, I'm not sure. I assume that it is, but it could have been changed to be a rare occurrence to prevent cheesing the bunny mechanics, or it could be bugged and no one's noticed. In any case, I know it was a thing at one time, so I always just fence in my fields and beehives to be on the safe side(plus it looks nice).

[Krougal]

39 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Honestly, I'm not sure. I assume that it is, but it could have been changed to be a rare occurrence to prevent cheesing the bunny mechanics, or it could be bugged and no one's noticed. In any case, I know it was a thing at one time, so I always just fence in my fields and beehives to be on the safe side(plus it looks nice).

It isn't, but you never know if it will make a comeback. I'll still usually fence it in winter now, which is when I try to make the base a slightly less Spartan dirt-hole.

For anyone who wasn't around to experience the "joy" of it, rabbits would just spawn on any grass next to your fields and rampage through them if you didn't fence it.

You could dig a dry moat around your fields and there would always be a few rabbits in the morning to go kill.

Coons to a lesser extent would go after skeps, but they didn't seem to spawn constantly and I don't remember if it was 1 block or 2 off the ground would put the kibosh on that. I used to put them on 2 fence posts, but it becomes a pain to jump around the place to make sure you get all the drops. I still put them on 1 post so I can see them past the flowers. I honestly do not remember if I ever had them hit mine.

[Echo Weaver]

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

I have so much meat between wolves and even killing a small herd of deer brings in like a stack of meat, that there just isn't any benefit to domesticating animals other than it being something to do.

Do you skip dairy as a nutrient?

The domestication/hunting thing seems like it could be comparable effort with the choice being based on what you find fun. I'm not big into hunting, so I've enjoyed domesticating some pigs and sheep. My teen enjoys hunting more so we've had an influx of meat since she's started playing in my game more often. Even so, pigs are a great source of fat, so they've been useful as we're rounding out our windmill power train. If you travel widely and can kill incidental animals quickly, then domesticated animals probably aren't saving you time either, even in the long haul. Domesticated animals provide meat that you can plan around and collect in the exact quantities you want, so that's something. Myself, I just get finite fun out of stabbing things, and stabbing rust monsters is a lot more fun than stabbing animals, so I'll always domesticate.

I see what you mean about farming, though. Breeding superfoods would be more like collecting butterflies or something -- doesn't really gain you anything but a sense of getting the cool stuff.

Edited August 11, 2025 by Echo Weaver

[Krougal]

15 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

Do you skip dairy as a nutrient?

The domestication/hunting thing seems like it could be comparable effort with the choice being based on what you find fun. I'm not big into hunting, so I've enjoyed domesticating some pigs and sheep. My teen enjoys hunting more so we've had an influx of meat since she's started playing in my game more often. Even so, pigs are a great source of fat, so they've been useful as we're rounding out our windmill power train. If you travel widely and can kill incidental animals quickly, then domesticated animals probably aren't saving you time either, even in the long haul. Domesticated animals provide meat that you can plan around and collect in the exact quantities you want, so that's something. Myself, I just get finite fun out of stabbing things, and stabbing rust monsters is a lot more fun than stabbing animals, so I'll always domesticate.

I see what you mean about farming, though. Breeding superfoods would be more like collecting butterflies or something -- doesn't really gain you anything but a sense of getting the cool stuff.

I'll buy cheese from traders sometimes, but more or less, yes.

The pigs are a great source of fat, but by winter, I'm usually good on fat, and having done it in the past, I think domesticating animals is a huge waste of time in that first year.

Wild pigs are a great source of fat too.  Poultry isn't as good as red meat, I'll have more feathers than I can likely ever use before spring is even over and eggs would be more interesting if you needed them for baking. My first choice would be sheep or goats, mainly for milk.

You simply have too much to do to get ready for that first winter. Not just to survive it, but to thrive in it.

Now, multiplayer, I have no experience with in VS, none of my friends are interested in it, my wife has zero interest. Not to mention she drives me insane when we game together. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.

Two people could be a lot more efficient, so one could get started on the animals and farm and be the "base bitch", while the other explored, mined, hunted and gathered.

There should be plenty of time to do activities together as well.

[Maelstrom]

14 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I always just fence in my... beehives to be on the safe side(plus it looks nice).

No need to do that.   Just put skeps on a fence post and raccoons can't reach them.  Instead of nerfing rabbit spawning I wish Tyron would have nerfed the benefit from killing them.   Drop maybe 1 red meat, maybe 1 small hide and absolutely no fat.  Killing 20 rabbits to get maybe 10 meat and hopefully 5 hides would definitely eliminate my desire to take the time to kill them.   Basically, make them more like drifters.

Edited August 12, 2025 by Maelstrom

[Krougal]

4 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

No need to do that.   Just put skeps on a fence post and raccoons can't reach them.  Instead of nerfing rabbit spawning I wish Tyron would have nerfed the benefit from killing them.   Drop maybe 1 red meat, maybe 1 small hide and absolutely no fat.  Killing 20 rabbits to get maybe 10 meat and hopefully 5 hides would definitely eliminate my desire to take the time to kill them.   Basically, make them more like drifters.

Does it need to be 1 post or 2? I had tried to science it back in...I dunno, 1.17 maybe. I just don't remember. I wound up still fencing them in anyway.

Wabbit season! Seriously, I think he did that too. I've found rabbits to be a complete waste of time, unless I am desperate or just on a push to quickly get a full load for tanning and killing indiscriminately, I don't even bother with them. Ditto for raccoons and foxes.

 

[Maelstrom]

15 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Does it need to be 1 post or 2? I had tried to science it back in...I dunno, 1.17 maybe. I just don't remember. I wound up still fencing them in anyway.

Ditto for raccoons and foxes.

 

Just 1.   Been doing that since 1.16.

Bushmeat is necessary to craft recurve bows.   Yes wolves an' bears provide bushmeat, but the 'coons and foxes are much easier to kill and a lot less deadly.

[Krougal]

9 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Just 1.   Been doing that since 1.16.

Bushmeat is necessary to craft recurve bows.   Yes wolves an' bears provide bushmeat, but the 'coons and foxes are much easier to kill and a lot less deadly.

Yes, but the wolves an' bears deliver for no additional fee.

[Maelstrom]

2 hours ago, Krougal said:

Yes, but the wolves an' bears deliver for no additional fee.

Unless you consider a longer battle an additional fee.  Considering that death can be on the line much more from those sources than from the smaller sources.

[Bumber]

On 8/12/2025 at 9:57 AM, Maelstrom said:

Bushmeat is necessary to craft recurve bows.   Yes wolves an' bears provide bushmeat, but the 'coons and foxes are much easier to kill and a lot less deadly.

I've been killed by a fox before. Couldn't even hit the thing after it started fighting back.

[Maelstrom]

2 hours ago, Bumber said:

I've been killed by a fox before. Couldn't even hit the thing after it started fighting back.

Reminds one of those hyperactive micro zombies in TOBG, no?

Maybe I should have said, less likely to be deadly.   Considering that even the dirt wants to kill you so...

[Thorfinn]

7 hours ago, Bumber said:

I've been killed by a fox before.

Pretty sure I got killed by a rooster once. Here I was, minding my own business, trying to remember how to make poultices and on one tiny slip of health, and he's running around me like, well, like a chicken with his head cut off. Then I died.

[Entaris]

On 8/11/2025 at 5:57 PM, Echo Weaver said:

Do you skip dairy as a nutrient?

Do people actually follow the nutrient bars?

Having +1 health doesn't really seem worth the effort of specifically sourcing individual food needs.

[LadyWYT]

9 minutes ago, Entaris said:

Do people actually follow the nutrient bars?

Having +1 health doesn't really seem worth the effort of specifically sourcing individual food needs.

It depends partly on what difficulty you play--the higher the difficulty, the more critical that extra health can be. I will also note that each full bar of nutrition equals +2.5 health(unless I'm mistaken). That doesn't sound like much, until you get in a fight and survive thanks to that sliver of extra health...or don't survive because you needed that extra health and hadn't got it.

[Bruno Willis]

Hey, on the topic of farming: farmland doesn't drop a block when broken? I've been hunting around a bit and I didn't spot a solution to this problem. Forgive me if there is one already.

It's a problem because it feels weird to break a block (especially a valuable terra preta block) and not get anything back, but it's a challenge because we don't want players exhausting farmland nutrients and then just digging and placing the block down again.

 I would suggest that farmland which has lain fallow for a good while would revert to grassy soil of its same quality after a certain time. Specifically, the mechanic could be farmland with grass or horsetail growing on it for 4 months or so reverts to grassy soil. I think that would be easily preventable if you don't want it to happen, but obvious enough that players could discover the mechanic on their own, and use it if they want to move their farm or re-shape it. 

Added to that, if you break farmland without waiting, it would drop a dirt block 1 or maybe 2 levels of quality lower - so breaking terra preta would give you high or medium fertility soil. Unfortunately I think it would have to be 2 levels lower because high fertility soil still makes very powerful farmland and we don't want people ever refreshing their soil by digging it up and putting it down again. The important thing is that it shouldn't feel like you're deleting a block from the world when you break farmland. Breaking farmland can still be punishing to do though, if there is a slower, more sensible way available.  

[Bruno Willis]

Also, here's a non-intensive way to get to New123455's original post: 

On 8/11/2025 at 8:21 AM, New123455 said:

What if there was a system that would play with there gen, like in Rust. Better Growth, better Yield, better Weather resistance, or all of them but in negative aspect. This would give value to seeds, and give a late-game aspect to cultivations.

As far as I can see, we don't want gradual realistic improvement because that would be code heavy and get in the way of everyone, even people who don't care about farming, for the benefit of a few dedicated farmers.

Instead, what if every crop had a slim slim slim chance, like 1 in 1000, to drop "good rye seed" for example instead of just "rye seed". That would still reward an attentive farmer who selects their "good rye seed", grows it carefully, and ensures that they slowly increase their stock of good seeds, but it wouldn't bother anyone who doesn't care about farming. Someone might get 1 "good rye seed" and just plant it along with all their others, not bother about it, and by doing that accidentally, very incrementally, improve their seed stock. 

I think I would find this rewarding, but then again, I like gardening. At present the system is plenty complex and very satisfying, so I don't see a pressing need to improve it.