Hate shivers and bowtorns, devs fix this please, I wont be able to play until then.

[Thorfinn]

Thinking a bit about it, it would be very cool to be able to do this for multiple mods. It would create a directory that has only the files that this particular set of mods affects. Since it's just accumulating key/value pairs, it could also identify if two mods change the same key/value and flag it with a bunch of exclamation points or something.

To be really useful, though, the various zip programs would have to start making it easier to retain directory structure. They used to do it by default, but now it seems to be only available at the command line, and even that can be fiddly.

[Nymue]

16 hours ago, Kalzamar said:

none of that was possible for me, night happened within 10 mins of spawn, all i had time to do was find a few cat tails, not enough for the shield, make armor, gather food, and boom its night, dead

Hi @Kalzamar! Good to see you on the forums instead of youtube  Night happening within ten minutes of spawning is a bug. That is not normal at all, like LadyWYT indicated. That bug usually only happens after you've closed the game too soon after sleeping, not on the first day. Bowtorns and shivers are still a problem. You've seen that on Kurazarrh's vids, and yes there are ways of dealing with them. NO you don't always hear that wind up, especially if the bowtorn is 20 blocks out. Unfortunately the only way to deal with that in early game is stay inside at night. My partner won't play because of them and the spawn issues that have plagued 1.20, nor will they pick the game up again until it's fixed. Even I've put it down for a bit because the bowtorns and shivers are so frustrating.
There are mods to limit them. No Surface Shivers mostly works, and Bashful Bowtorns does help. Happy gaming friend!

[Kalzamar]

1 hour ago, Nymue said:

Hi @Kalzamar! Good to see you on the forums instead of youtube  Night happening within ten minutes of spawning is a bug. That is not normal at all, like LadyWYT indicated. That bug usually only happens after you've closed the game too soon after sleeping, not on the first day. Bowtorns and shivers are still a problem. You've seen that on Kurazarrh's vids, and yes there are ways of dealing with them. NO you don't always hear that wind up, especially if the bowtorn is 20 blocks out. Unfortunately the only way to deal with that in early game is stay inside at night. My partner won't play because of them and the spawn issues that have plagued 1.20, nor will they pick the game up again until it's fixed. Even I've put it down for a bit because the bowtorns and shivers are so frustrating.
There are mods to limit them. No Surface Shivers mostly works, and Bashful Bowtorns does help. Happy gaming friend!

Nice to see you on here too. I'll be interested in seeing how Kura deals with them in the next series. From what I gather, Vintage story has become dirt hut simulator until you can make tier 2 armor. which is sad. The devs are doing the same thing 7dtd did, every time players finds a ways to play the game that is not to the devs liking, they patch it out or make changes that make it impossible. Like 7d2d they will loose a lot of players this way. hopefully they wake up and realize that the combat system is broken and do a full revamp. You cant have an open world game that you cant play open world.

This was my favorite game, its now my most rage inducing. Games are supposed to be fun. This is not anymore.

[Kyassady]

23 hours ago, Kalzamar said:

I was running full tilt at night in a field in low rift activity. Shivers caught up to me, bowtorns shot me, cant run to them, cant see them at night and shiver on my ass. cant build a defense while shivers are running at me and blowhorns shooting at me. couldn't make a shield, not enough cat tails in my spawn region.

how can I approach combat early game if there are no answers to them early game. sleep, don't want to, hole up, don't want to (VERY BORING) . . . so die. so your answer is for someone that has no idea how to mod, to learn to mod to play a game, thanks but no thanks.

 

that's why i started a new world on passive! if i attack, they just turn and destroy me! latter when i start going into caves i'll turn them agressive again....

[Wybie]

If im gonna be fully honest, 100% I just dont think this game is for you if you're complaining about difficulty. I've owned the game a grand total of 3 days now and can say with certainty on my end that they really arent that big of a deal whatsoever. 

If I had to guess, you came to the game looking to play Minecraft, but VS is not minecraft. It is very distinctively its own game with its own way of playing it. If you're rushing around constantly and trying to speed through everything, then you're gonna get humbled fast because you are trying to play Minecraft and not Vintage Story. Slow down, actually take some time to observe and learn the 10billion different features in the game and learn to play it the way its meant to. 

Night time is supposed to be threatening, the player is not supposed to be some god among the different creatures of the world, but rather a cohesive part of it that has to fight to stay apart of It.

 

I truly hope you give the game another try and come at it from the perspective that it is NOT minecraft, and there will be things you have to learn and adapt to in order to enjoy it. I dont think theres even been a single night ive WANTED to be outside because there's constantly 100 million things to do and keep on top of. 

[ItzWalterino]

I kinda like fighting them with spears, the shivers cant get close and I also don't get stabbed by the bowtorn's melee attack

[HalfAxd]

1 hour ago, ItzWalterino said:

I kinda like fighting them with spears, the shivers cant get close and I also don't get stabbed by the bowtorn's melee attack

Very much the same here...  early game I'm loaded with spears or have a bunch at the ready around my base for the morning bowtorns. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

12 minutes ago, ItzWalterino said:

I kinda like fighting them with spears, the shivers cant get close and I also don't get stabbed by the bowtorn's melee attack

two spear tosses with a flint spear will kill a bowtorn if you play on hunter. I think every other class takes 3 tosses. Never tried to fight a shiver at night without armor and usually by then, I have a falx and a shield which makes them pretty trivial aside from the fact that they run away when low health.

3 hours ago, Kalzamar said:

The devs are doing the same thing 7dtd did, every time players finds a ways to play the game that is not to the devs liking, they patch it out or make changes that make it impossible.

I think this is a very dishonest statement about the devs. A large part of how the devs make the game is to align with Tyron's vision for the game. If players figure out a way to break the game, then the devs will patch it out, but for the most part, he leaves it up to the player to decide how to tackle the challenges, with the most obvious solution being the easiest path forward. But they aren't doing these things to spite the player, but rather to keep the game in line with how Tyron and Saraty envisioned it.

I think something that has really stood out to me in your messages is that you are under the false impression that fighting the mobs is actually worth your time. It's not. All it serves to do is injure you, wear down your weapons and armor, and for what? Paltry loot drops that can be gotten by other, less risky methods? Vintage Story is unforgiving. If you make a mistake it will punish you, but it's also supposed to be a game. Part of the game is figuring out what you can and cannot do at certain stages. One of those things is holing up to work in the safety of your dirt hut or sleeping through the nights because anything else is a waste of time. Later, you will find it beneficial to take the risk of the creepy crawlies at night.

As others have pointed out, the game is NOT Minecraft. Treating it as such will end in frustration as we veterans have seen time and time again. Players come to the forums complaining that the game is too hard. We ask, "What did you do?". Usually the answers come back as some variation of something that would happen in Minecraft as a result of the normal gameplay loops there. 

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

 

[Zane Mordien]

41 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

5 hours ago, Kalzamar said:

 

I think this is a very dishonest statement about the devs. A large part of how the devs make the game is to align with Tyron's vision for the game. If players figure out a way to break the game, then the devs will patch it out, but for the most part, he leaves it up to the player to decide how to tackle the challenges, with the most obvious solution being the easiest path forward. But they aren't doing these things to spite the player, but rather to keep the game in line with how Tyron and Saraty envisioned it.

In his defense, they are chasing the meta on mob fighting. People were building paths above the ground and they added the ability for the drifters to throw rocks. Then the meta became to run and throw spears and we got shivers and bowtorns. Now they have dialed back the same shivers and bowtorns based on player response. These are responses to player actions and not a vision. 

I do not agree with you about fighting.  The game is leaning into fighting with every story chapter. You have to learn how to fight in the game or you will be woefully unprepared for the later game and way more frustrated dying in the story locations.

[Echo Weaver]

16 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

In his defense, they are chasing the meta on mob fighting. People were building paths above the ground and they added the ability for the drifters to throw rocks. Then the meta became to run and throw spears and we got shivers and bowtorns. Now they have dialed back the same shivers and bowtorns based on player response. These are responses to player actions and not a vision. 

Yeah, I gotta agree here. I think part of the vision is a specific kind of difficulty, including there being very few moments when you truly feel safe. So if there's a way to completely neutralize a threat, they will change it. But to their credit, they added difficulty and then dialed it back. I'm also quite sure they never intended drifters to be the only rotbeasts.

I don't say that as a criticism, though. I think responding to players is an important part of making a compelling game, even if "responding to players" is more sophisticated than following whoever is loudest and angriest on the forum.

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

I do not agree with you about fighting.  The game is leaning into fighting with every story chapter. You have to learn how to fight in the game or you will be woefully unprepared for the later game and way more frustrated dying in the story locations.

Players need to learn how to fight, yes, and there are certain instances that fights are unavoidable. However, I believe @Teh Pizza Lady's point wasn't that players should avoid combat all together, but rather pick their battles carefully. Sometimes fights just aren't worth the cost, and nights with a lot of monster activity are a prime example of that. The player can easily remain active outside, of course, but they'll end up spending a lot of hitpoints, equipment durability, and time just dealing with the monsters instead of actually work, than if they had just opted to get work done indoors for a while or exchanged five seconds of sleeping to bring back daylight.

 

17 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

In his defense, they are chasing the meta on mob fighting. People were building paths above the ground and they added the ability for the drifters to throw rocks. Then the meta became to run and throw spears and we got shivers and bowtorns. Now they have dialed back the same shivers and bowtorns based on player response. These are responses to player actions and not a vision. 

Yeah, I'd have to partially disagree here as well. The monsters do fit the game's vision, as they all follow the same general theme of eldritch horror beasts or mechanicals gone mad. In the case of bowtorn and shivers, they follow the pattern of the eldritch horror beasts since that is the template for "all terrain monsters", essentially, with mechanicals being limited to the underground. Prior to their addition in 1.20, one of the common complaints was that monsters were too easy and didn't have enough variety. Shivers and bowtorn added some much needed variety, as well as additional challenges when it came to how players approached combat. Of course, there were several complaints about those monsters after they were added to the game, however, complaints also subsided quickly as players figured out how to deal with the new monsters, or modded them out if they really didn't want them. There's been a complaint thread or two since, usually from new players or players that took a break for a long time, and haven't yet figured out how to handle some of the new mechanics yet.

 

6 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

I think part of the vision is a specific kind of difficulty, including there being very few moments when you truly feel safe. So if there's a way to completely neutralize a threat, they will change it. But to their credit, they added difficulty and then dialed it back

I think this is the better way to put it. Increasing challenges or otherwise fixing "cheese" is in line with developing a specific vision for the game. I will note that not all "cheese mechanics" get fixed either; it's mainly the ones that are too easily executed or otherwise trivialize content(such as standing on a dirt pillar to render oneself essentially immune to attack). Of course, when a change does make things more difficult than intended(such as falls interrupting the new healing mechanic and making the first boss too hard), then the devs will make changes as needed to make the general difficulty match their vision.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 hour ago, Zane Mordien said:

In his defense, they are chasing the meta on mob fighting. People were building paths above the ground and they added the ability for the drifters to throw rocks. Then the meta became to run and throw spears and we got shivers and bowtorns. Now they have dialed back the same shivers and bowtorns based on player response. These are responses to player actions and not a vision. 

I do not agree with you about fighting.  The game is leaning into fighting with every story chapter. You have to learn how to fight in the game or you will be woefully unprepared for the later game and way more frustrated dying in the story locations.

 

45 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

Yeah, I gotta agree here. I think part of the vision is a specific kind of difficulty, including there being very few moments when you truly feel safe. So if there's a way to completely neutralize a threat, they will change it. But to their credit, they added difficulty and then dialed it back. I'm also quite sure they never intended drifters to be the only rotbeasts.

I believe my statements are not entirely contradictory with what both of you said here, so I'm not sure I understand if you were intending to write that as a rebuttal to my argument or not. I said that when the players broke the game, the devs had to fix it. They found ways to avoid certain game mechanics so the devs had to modify those mechanics to be unavoidable. They found ways to make an unforgiving atmosphere a little safer.

Fighting is of course required at some point, especially to complete the game content. I never said it wasn't. What I actually said if you read the words I wrote was that part of the game was learning what you can and cannot do at certain stages of the game, with one of those things being to hole up in your dirt hut and just wait out the night by doing things inside (like panning bony soil, smelting metals, cooking food, etc.) or just sleeping through the night so the daylight can chase away the monsters with the implication that you won't have any hope of fighting them until you get proper weapons and armor. After that, whatever you decide to do is up to you.

Quote

Part of the game is figuring out what you can and cannot do at certain stages. One of those things is holing up to work in the safety of your dirt hut or sleeping through the nights because anything else is a waste of time. Later, you will find it beneficial to take the risk of the creepy crawlies at night.

So, I really feel like we're saying the same things, just with different words.

33 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

However, I believe @Teh Pizza Lady's point wasn't that players should avoid combat all together, but rather pick their battles carefully. Sometimes fights just aren't worth the cost, and nights with a lot of monster activity are a prime example of that. The player can easily remain active outside, of course, but they'll end up spending a lot of hitpoints, equipment durability, and time just dealing with the monsters instead of actually work, than if they had just opted to get work done indoors for a while or exchanged five seconds of sleeping to bring back daylight.

Exactly correct in what I was saying, yes.

Edited September 22, 2025 by Teh Pizza Lady
Clarity

[Echo Weaver]

21 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

believe my statements are not entirely contradictory with what both of you said here, so I'm not sure I understand if you were intending to write that as a rebuttal to my argument or not. I said that when the players broke the game, the devs had to fix it. They found ways to avoid certain game mechanics so the devs had to modify those mechanics to be unavoidable. They found ways to make an unforgiving atmosphere a little safer.

I wasn't really rebutting you. I was thinking about pursuing a vision vs making specific changes based on player behavior. The OP was complaining about the latter, and the devs clearly do make changes to make the monsters more dangerous based on what players do to neutralize them. That's not incompatible with vision, though. 

If your vision is a certain level of challenge, then adjusting foes based on player behavior to make them more difficult to neutralize is both part of the vision AND chasing the meta to some degree (actually I have no idea what that means and will have to look it up).

Tangentially, I disagree that drifters don't provide valuable loot. They're the primary way to collect temporal gears, and those are the only way to change your spawn point. So it you want to be able to pick a base location without being constrained by access to spawn point, you need to kill them drifters. Also, until you get a couple of good flax harvests, those fibers are worthwhile. I just prefer to draw them into a pit trap and stab them with a spear when they can't hit me.

[LadyWYT]

25 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

chasing the meta to some degree (actually I have no idea what that means and will have to look it up).

"Chasing the meta" is essentially just playing whichever way is regarded as "best" at the time. That doesn't mean that the meta is actually the best strategy for one to pursue, though it doesn't mean that the meta is the worst strategy either. 

To try to use an example from Vintage Story, the meta for handling drifters might be to either stand on a dirt pillar and chuck spears, or to run around naked kiting them and chuck spears. Adding a fast monster like the shiver and a ranged monster like the bowtorn breaks that meta, since shivers are a lot harder to kite and bowtorn are highly effective against exposed stationary targets(like players on pillars).

[Tom Cantine]

With respect, @Kalzamar, your experience is very different from mine. I have never found bowtorn or shiver to be an impossible challenge, even in early game. I appreciate that you think it's boring to stay in a dirt hut all night, but it's important to understand that this is a survival game, not primarily a combat game. Combat is important, but we're not here to just kill monsters and get treasure. We're here to manage our resources and figure out strategies to survive and, hopefully, prosper. And maybe if we're up to it, tackle the story progression. 

I do not find early game night time boring or impossible. Challenging, sure, but that's kind of the point. With proper planning and tactics, it becomes easy, but figuring out that proper planning and tactics can be a struggle. Time management and prioritization really make a difference. On day one, I may knap a knife and an axe and a shovel, but that's to speed up the absolutely essential GATHERING process. Gather as many berries and stones and sticks and a bit of grass and some firewood, and make the smallest most rudimentary shelter you can out of whatever you can collect fastest. Don't stop to eat, just gather. Run away from dangerous stuff. If I have time I like to spear a couple of fish, but leave hunting for day 2 or 3. 
 

The first night, there will be PLENTY to do, crafting baskets, cooking and eating, knapping more tools and weapons. You may think these tasks boring, but they really are the key to prospering in a survival game. 

But you know, if you're really into just combat, you might want to join a multiplayer server where you can specialize in patrolling and guarding the camp while your other companions tend to the other stuff. Even then, though, you'll need to acclimatize yourself to the fact that much of a soldier's life, even in wartime, is boredom. 

[Kalzamar]

This will be my last post in this thread.

Misconception, I have never played the other block game, no interest, I find it boring. I have played VS in 1.18, 1.19 and tried playing 1.20 and now 1.21, I have never liked shivers and bowtorns and kept hoping they would balance them, they never have (some say they have, but not enough, they still spawn in daylight on top of trees). After 1.20 and 1.21 and trying to play the game and not being able to play the game I payed for, I wrote this post.

They are loosing players because of the changes they have/are doing. You can believe it or not, it IS happening. Nothing you say will change this fact.

The devs patching out "exploits" are the devs saying, you are not to have fun the way you want, you have to do it the way we want. If players have fun using "exploits", they are having fun. You don't have to use those "exploits" if you don't want to, that is your choice. But the devs are taking away those choices. They are making the game less fun for some ppl, and for others it does not affect them. The only ppl it affects are the ones using the "exploits" not the ones not using them. In the same thinking, not being able to explore at night (the first night, don't say i can, I just have to git gud . . . really? thats your answer? come on!) is taking away fun for me, if others want to play dirt hut simulator at night, that is their choice, the choice has been taken away from me and others.

Anybody who says VS has a good combat system is lying to themselves. It is a very well known fact that the combat system needs work. It is talked about by all content creators and streamers.

And telling me I just have to learn to mod is insulting, what next you'll tell me I should just program my own game? if you say yes to this, do not respond to this post.

All I'm saying is VS went from being my most favorite game, to my most rage inducing, because of the introduction of shivers and bowtorns, it is no longer fun for ME (if its still fun for you, yay for you) I will reiterate, minor changes are needed, gradually introduce shivers and bowtorns through story missions. Or, just balance them from the get go. Shivers move slightly slower than the player and bowtorns not hit with aimbot. I have heard of other balancing options discussed in streams but I cant recall the details.

It is my choice to not play the game because its not what I payed for. if you wish to, that is your choice.

Edited September 23, 2025 by Kalzamar

[Zane Mordien]

@Kalzamar

I agree with you for the most part. Although I do think they have done a decent job of rebalancing the spawn rates of the new mobs,  but early game they are still a nuisance.  The random shiver attack in broad daylight still annoys me early game.

I also would prefer that the shiver and bowtorns be introduced over time to be less in your face day one but thats just my opinion. 

Edited September 23, 2025 by Zane Mordien

[Zane Mordien]

13 hours ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

 

I believe my statements are not entirely contradictory with what both of you said here, so I'm not sure I understand if you were intending to write that as a rebuttal to my argument or not. I said that when the players broke the game, the devs had to fix it. They found ways to avoid certain game mechanics so the devs had to modify those mechanics to be unavoidable. They found ways to make an unforgiving atmosphere a little safer.

Fighting is of course required at some point, especially to complete the game content. I never said it wasn't. What I actually said if you read the words I wrote was that part of the game was learning what you can and cannot do at certain stages of the game, with one of those things being to hole up in your dirt hut and just wait out the night by doing things inside (like panning bony soil, smelting metals, cooking food, etc.) or just sleeping through the night so the daylight can chase away the monsters with the implication that you won't have any hope of fighting them until you get proper weapons and armor. After that, whatever you decide to do is up to you.

So, I really feel like we're saying the same things, just with different words.

Exactly correct in what I was saying, yes.

Plainly stated, I disagree. They got caught up in chasing the meta the same as 7D2D and not following a vision. Hopefully that ends and they focus more on gameplay instead of poorly tuned mobs. I do appreciate they rebalanced them and the bears in the recent releases. I still don't understand how the spawn rate was so much different then the release candidates when bowtorns and shivers were added.

Sorry, you're just collateral damage on my combat rant. I'm personally triggered by any mention of its not about the combat. That used to be what all the veterans said before when anyone dared complain about the combat system. As the combat intensive story chapters have rolled out they slowly dropped that argument. 

Edited September 23, 2025 by Zane Mordien

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 hour ago, Zane Mordien said:

Sorry, you're just collateral damage on my combat rant. I'm personally triggered by any mention of its not about the combat. That used to be what all the veterans said before when anyone dared complain about the combat system. As the combat intensive story chapters have rolled out they slowly dropped that argument. 

that's fine. You're allowed to disagree with me. But I won't allow my intent to be misrepresented.

I never meant to argue that combat wasn't required.

My argument was that part of the game was figuring out when to fight and when to hide. Early game, of course, being when to hide, unless you fancy yourself a veteran and decide to take on 3 bears at night during medium rift activity... 

[LadyWYT]

11 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

unless you fancy yourself a veteran and decide to take on 3 bears at night during medium rift activity... 

Only allowed if your name is Goldilocks. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 hour ago, LadyWYT said:

Only allowed if your name is Goldilocks. 

You must be Goldilocks, then... which is now your unofficial nickname until I find something else to annoy you with.

[Tom Cantine]

Fine, Kalzamar. I know this was your last post in the thread, so I'm not really replying for your benefit but for anyone else still reading here, and in particular to give a counter to your claim that people are leaving the game because of the shivers and bowtorn: I'm not, and neither are a lot of other players. The "You just lost a customer!" play just doesn't carry lot of weight; we all know that VS is not a game everyone will like.

And as for dismissing advice on tactics as a derisive "git gud", I would like to assure other readers that it's really not that hard. I generally dislike combat, not for mechanical reasons but because I'm just not a combat player. I like to avoid it if I can in favour of other less costly solutions. I don't really enjoy fighting, so I'm really not the kind of player who hones his reflexes for skillful hacking and slaying. And yet, not long ago, I won a sniper duel with FOUR nightmare bowtorn who were still hanging around outside my base after a heavy temporal storm. It's not that hard if you prepare and plan, but preparing and planning takes a bit of effort. Admittedly that preparation included a recurve bow and iron arrows, but all that meant was I didn't have to hit them as many time to take them down. I still had to HIT them, and avoid being hit, while keeping track of where the others might be maneuvering. It was a challenge, but if a reluctant warrior like me can pull it off, a motivated combat player should have no trouble.

In other words, don't become discouraged if the challenge seems too much for you. It's doable.

[LadyWYT]

1 minute ago, Tom Cantine said:

but for anyone else still reading here, and in particular to give a counter to your claim that people are leaving the game because of the shivers and bowtorn: I'm not, and neither are a lot of other players. The "You just lost a customer!" play just doesn't carry lot of weight; we all know that VS is not a game everyone will like.

Adding on to this: part of the growing pains for 1.20's release was due to a large influx of new players, to the extent that Anego's servers were having trouble handling the workload. Given that trouble, and that shivers/bowtorn were added in 1.20, and that there have been several many new players appearing on the forums as well as an increase in Vintage Story content on YouTube since then...I'd say the playerbase is actively growing instead of shrinking.

[Echo Weaver]

On 9/23/2025 at 11:37 AM, Teh Pizza Lady said:

You must be Goldilocks, then..

Excuse me. Judging by your userpic, YOU are Goldilocks.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

Just now, Echo Weaver said:

Excuse me. Judging by your userpic, YOU are Goldilocks.

No I'm Teh Pizza Lady