CastIronFabric Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 1 hour ago, RogueVali said: It's funny how realism matters to you guys sometimes, but sometimes not at all. actually that is completely normal. In fact Disney even had a word for it (keep in mind this was easily over 40 years ago but I recall it specifically. The word was 'Fictional realism'. It was described as having roots in something familiar and 'real' based while at the same time being fictional and fanciful. 1
CastIronFabric Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 53 minutes ago, RogueVali said: Why does it have to encapsulate all the miserable changes and nothing that benefits the player thoo.. ... I have no idea, I am not trying to engage in the larger point. I am just giving a history lesson. It actually one of the only things I distinctly recall from my 6th grade. It was one of those Disney educational movies they used to do back then. The basic idea is that that is a balance between reality and fiction and fun. Its not a science, its an art. Edited February 13 by CastIronFabric
Chuckerton Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 11 hours ago, CastIronFabric said: personally I disagree. I am a bit surprised at how so much attention are being paid to small changes and not much attention paid to the very large changes to smithing and windmills. Those two things will have a much larger impact on game play I think something like this was kind of said before, but you cook and eat in this game pretty frequently. Needing tongs for that is going to add a layer of hassle to something youre doing pretty much all the time. Also you wont really be smithing and using windmills until later on in a game, but youll eat pretty early in the game. And during your time smithing and building windmills. And after that too. And i think for the other things, people are still trying to gather their thoughts on it. At the very least, a number of those large changes arent controversial like the smaller changes people are paying attention to, such as requiring tongs (which now have durability) for eating hot food in a bowl, or spears being nerfed. 9 hours ago, CastIronFabric said: click the cooking pot with a crockpot while keeping the cooking pot in the fire. It instantly moves to food to the crockpot and the crockpot itself does not have a temperature, I am not sure if the food inside is still super hot or not but it cools down rather quickly anyway. And this is a workaround for a problem that shouldnt exist. Just because there exists a workaround does not make it not a problem. I could understand the cooking pot requiring tongs to get out of the fire. Its literally sitting in the fire, and it doesnt have handles or anything either. But if fill up a bowl of the soup, the bowl shouldnt immediately become scorching. Is the bowl made of copper? And why is food thats too hot to hold NOT too hot to eat? A few weeks ago i was able to pick up a slice of pizza only to find out its too hot to eat, after the ridiculously hot cheese got stuck to the roof of my mouth and made it painful to eat for a few days afterwards. I didnt need tongs for the pizza. I feel like it might be an oversight. Maybe the food temperature thing was an accidental change after they changed something with temperature on items as a whole. I really hope it wasnt intentional, if it was, i hope they change their mind. I enjoy realism when it makes for engaging gameplay and challenges, but the only thing the food heat change does is challenge my patience. Edited February 13 by Chuckerton 5
TeaJay Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 That's why I like discussing about it since we don't have a dev comment yet on whether or not it's an intended mechanic change or not. Something like the rendered fat disappearing when you try to take it out is obviously a bug. I don't think it's intended either that you'd need to use a bucket. Otherwise something like hunter's backpack is locked behind an anvil.
CastIronFabric Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 10 hours ago, Chuckerton said: I think something like this was kind of said before, but you cook and eat in this game pretty frequently. .. that is an incorrect assessment. It is actually fairly easy to cook in the update and never use thongs and yes I mean in a cooking pot and its not a 'work around' its literally the best way to do it in every respect even in the old updates by a fairly wide margin in fact. Edited February 13 by CastIronFabric
Facethief Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said: that is an incorrect assessment. It is actually fairly easy to cook in the update and never use thongs I’d hope so Edited February 13 by Facethief Edited for clarity of joke 2
CastIronFabric Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Facethief said: I’d hope so yes. I think the chances of one having a cooking pot but not a crockpot is extreemly low (although not zero). So, take the crockpot in any slot and have it highlighted, click on the cooking pot that is completed without taking it out of the fire. done. food is now in the crockpot and the crock is not hot. I do not recall if the food inside still is or not, but regardless, it really does not take that long to cool down. In fact, in early game I cook, then go off and do other things, come back and do the same thing but with my bowl and its cooled down by the time I get back. Regardless of how much people like to disagree, the reality is, there is more steps and impedance to making fat than there is to hot food. (this assertion is a comparative assertion) On fat you need two cooking pots in early game (one for cooking and one for fat production). When you get fat you have to cook it (so more firewood), then you have to let it sit in the cooking pot for 5-6 in game hours, then you need to make a bucket (which means you need well..a saw) then you get the fat using a bucket and dump it on the ground. I personally enjoy game features that require a lot of steps to get something done so I am ok with this. If I wanted super simple crafting I would just play minecraft Edited February 13 by CastIronFabric 1
CastIronFabric Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 21 minutes ago, RogueVali said: In 1.21.6 at least it is indeed. Stops you from seeing how long a meal will stay fresh for till it cools down. Which can be annoying. This tho. Why. All so you can get a thing that gathers under the skin of processed animals. It's resin all over again. Ye no tappers, no nothing. Essentially tree blood is more mythical than gold. That I legit need help with understanding. Cause process does sound cool, but also why. What was wrong with the previous fat? What this new fat is used for? I need a saw, means I need an anvil, forge, crucible, shit ton of clay, to find copper in the first place. For what. What this new processed fat can be used for that previous raw fat from animal bodies could not acomplish? 1. I would be fine with a change to show how long before you can pick it up. They do not do that one forging but I do not see any reason why not. 2. My hunch is that the future updates will be more feature rich and less story rich. I get a feeling there is going to be a lot and I mean a LOT of upgrades in that department coming. 3. regarding fat specifically, I think they are building a foundation for more cooking possiblities. what exactly? I do not know Edited February 13 by CastIronFabric
CastIronFabric Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RogueVali said: Just realised something btw. U know what ceramic is? A great heat insulator. U ever poured a hot beverage in ur cup? Noticed how there's no boils on your hand when picking it up? Picking it up is just a stupid change that can go to hell. EATING hot food should damage you. That's the part that fkn HURTS. do you think that perhaps...(not just bear with me a second) that perhaps the reason you can pick up the food once its in a crockpot is because a bowl is not as thick as a crockpot? and yes, I absolutely have had ceramic bowls be too hot in real life, zero question. including hot coffee. Edited February 13 by CastIronFabric
CastIronFabric Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 2 minutes ago, RogueVali said: That is interesting. I have not. Glass, plastic, metal, yes. Heat conductors, not insulators. Ceramic? Not nearly as much. I mean... Ye probably? Huh, I bet that's not what devs intended, and it's just some jank ass code at work, but it does make sense. I'd assume crockpot would be thicker. U know, preserve better. Insulate harder. I make hot coffee every day, I poor that coffee straight from my French press into a cermaic coffee cup. I can hold it for about 10 seconds that point before I have to put it down. (to be fair without the handle because my handle is broken) Most people use coffee machines so they are unaware of this, I assume. Edited February 13 by CastIronFabric
CastIronFabric Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 12 minutes ago, RogueVali said: Tea man myself, hah. Ye it can def get hot, but not hurt, disfigure, or kill you hot. Hell, during those bastard winter nights its been actually quite soothing. Also absolute gold of a quote from my friend. "give me fire give me reason i want my oven mittens or i will commit treason" I think given I have now figured it out and I NEVER use tongs to deal with meals, I am not going to invest to much time talking about it further. I know that is my go to statement but I really do try. 1
Teh Pizza Lady Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 17 hours ago, RogueVali said: It's funny how realism matters to you guys sometimes, but sometimes not at all. Realistic tool durability or being able to fix a toolhead? Naa, we don't need realism! Shavings of metal ingots that just poof into the aether? Who needs those. But any change that makes life miserable, like stupid cooking pots requiring tongs? Literally serving no purpose? Oh god spread it like butter all over, baby. No oven mitts, no nothing, just pure misery for no reason. this type of comment is a little unfair 1) you don't know what goes on in our heads when we play the game 2) just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you need to state it...like this. I have often and long thought that being able to break down worn toolheads would be a great feature to have in the game and was considering creating a mod to do just that. As for the rest, others have addressed it at length, but I will say from personal experience, that anything coming out of a hot fire is going to be HOT and nearly impossible to carry without some sort of potholder or tongs. If you don't believe me, go boil some water and try to carry the pan without using the handle. This isn't a miserable change, but one that is actually in keeping with the direction that the devs have previously shown to be taking with certain game features. I remember when crucibles didn't require tongs to hold them straight out of the fire. EDIT: Also I don't remember if it was said or not, but you can dip food directly out of the cooking pot into crocks and food bowls without ever needing to hold the cooking pot. Personally I'd prefer a carved wooden ladle, but that's just me. Edited February 13 by Teh Pizza Lady 1
ZaraAvali Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 Fine, lets say that "for muh realism!!!" pots SHOULD be too hot to hold without tongs... Some classes start with gloves, shouldn't that protect their hands from a bowl thats a bit too hot??
LadyWYT Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 8 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: EDIT: Also I don't remember if it was said or not, but you can dip food directly out of the cooking pot into crocks and food bowls without ever needing to hold the cooking pot. It's been said in various ways, but that's kind of part of the problem. @CastIronFabric already noted that filling a crock from a hot cookpot is fine. Bowls, however, as other users have noted, aren't fine. CastIron is right again in that pouring hot liquid into a ceramic bowl can result in the bowl being too hot to hold with bare hands, even if the ceramic is quite thick. Happened to me a few times this week with my noodle bowls. https://github.com/anegostudios/VintageStory-Issues/issues/8097 It's also a known issue on the bug tracker though. The inconsistent behavior between bowls, cookpots, and crocks also suggests that it wasn't an intended change(that and the fact that the ticket hasn't been closed as "won't fix"). Something likely went wrong when the devs were working on the new forging mechanics and some cookware got lumped in somehow(possibly because cookpots and crucibles both cook in firepits), and it'll be fixed by the time 1.22 stable releases. 2
Teh Pizza Lady Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 47 minutes ago, ZaraAvali said: Fine, lets say that "for muh realism!!!" pots SHOULD be too hot to hold without tongs... Some classes start with gloves, shouldn't that protect their hands from a bowl thats a bit too hot?? You'd think that and it's actually something i'm looking forward to once pre.3 gets released
Alatyr Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) Will it be possible to strengthen softer metals using work hardening? This is relatively easy to accomplish: simply hammer a cold workpiece on an anvil. With each strike, the part will become stronger, but the risk of breakage will increase. It's essentially the same as hardening, but with hammer blows instead of heating and cooling. We will spend the durability of the hammer and anvil instead of coal for soft materials. Edited February 13 by Alatyr
Teh Pizza Lady Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Alatyr said: Will it be possible to strengthen softer metals using work hardening? This is relatively easy to accomplish: simply hammer a cold workpiece on an anvil. With each strike, the part will become stronger, but the risk of breakage will increase. It's essentially the same as hardening, but with hammer blows instead of heating and cooling. We will spend the durability of the hammer and anvil instead of coal for soft materials. I have thought that about copper hammers.... and the reason the durability of them works in my head is that copper indeed work-hardens and can get to a point where it is too hard to be useful and will shatter. By the same logic, iron and steel do NOT work harden. They will only deform over time. Therefore the durability is MUCH higher. So if you run all of this at once you are asking to sacrifice some durability of both the work piece AND the hammer...for what? I don't see how it's going to be useful if your copper or bronze axe is work-hardened because it will just break faster. 2
Robes Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 4 hours ago, Teh Pizza Lady said: I will say from personal experience, that anything coming out of a hot fire is going to be HOT and nearly impossible to carry without some sort of potholder or tongs. If you don't believe me, go boil some water and try to carry the pan without using the handle. Yeah, pots are hot? That doesn't mean it's a good thing for gameplay. It's a tedious chore added on to an already repetitive gameplay loop. It's time wasting for the sake of time wasting, something that makes sense from a design perspective in a game like WoW where the goal is to keep you subscribed and grinding as long as possible, but is simply frustrating in a single player experience. IRL you have to spend 8 hours of real time to sleep, forging a toolhead can take hours of intense labor, and building a house requires intricate knowledge of engineering principles, but I think it's crazy to want all that in a game when you might as well deal with all that IRL if you've got the time to waste. Most people see the value of a game like this in the careful picking and choosing of mechanics to provide abstractions of real systems that are entertaining to interact with, not in the perfect simulation all the tedious minutiae of reality like waiting for your soup to cool down. You're more than welcome to your own opinion in this matter but myself and many others feel that these micro-chores are not the sort of thing that should be the focus. 1
LexicalAnomaly Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 Please undo the damage reduction on spears, it's completely unnecessary and makes the early game much too difficult.
williams_482 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 23 hours ago, RogueVali said: I love this absolute unit of a commenter too. *I tried a mod that adds fixable toolheads. I didn't like it very much cause they take inventory space. I much prefer when tools just poof into the aether.* Toss the toolhead then you galaxy brain? Charming. Anyway, there's a quote from Soren Johnson, designer of Civilization IV and many other games, relevant to this situation: "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." The basic meaning is that if players are given a way to do something which is "better" (in this case, saves more material) they will do it, even if it's actually really annoying and un-fun. Yeah, I could just toss the toolhead and pretend it doesn't exist, but I know that's a waste of metal. I'm not going to do that and nor are most other players. Having the option to save it and eek some more value out of it becomes a drag: either it's an extra chore to do, or a regular reminder that the way you've chosen to play is inefficient in a meaningful way. The alternative where it's not an option, and you just accept that you will someday need to mine more metal (something the game wants you to do!) doesn't have this problem. 5
Thorfinn Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 On 2/7/2026 at 12:26 PM, LadyWYT said: Nope! Look for a trapdoor. Some traders have their living quarters underground. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false! 1 2
Thorfinn Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 On 2/12/2026 at 10:01 AM, LadyWYT said: When it comes to "small" changes, like the bowls of food being too hot to hold, I don't think those were intended changes My money is on they were working on a generalized routine for burn damage, likely with status effects in mind, and hadn't thought through all the things it would affect. 1
LadyWYT Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Thorfinn said: My money is on they were working on a generalized routine for burn damage, likely with status effects in mind, and hadn't thought through all the things it would affect. My guess is that it was probably a change intended to stop players from yanking things out of molds before the item in question was completely cooled, but got applied to cookpots and bowls by accident. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it were some leftovers from experimenting with a status effect system. 2
Thorfinn Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 (edited) On 2/12/2026 at 5:08 PM, RogueVali said: It's funny how realism matters to you guys sometimes, but sometimes not at all. I suspect you are conflating multiple people here, and largely misconstruing them at that. Most people are not here for a simulator, but a game. Or at least that's largely been the case. Realism is fine as long as it doesn't get in the way of a good gaming experience. Respawns comes to mind. Most people are not bothered by this immortality. The complaint that often appears is that it's not unrealistic enough -- I want to keep all my stuff and not be dinged by nutrition loss and respawn in my safe, secure home next to my comfortable bed. On 2/12/2026 at 5:08 PM, RogueVali said: I love this absolute unit of a commenter too. *I tried a mod that adds fixable toolheads. I didn't like it very much cause they take inventory space. I much prefer when tools just poof into the aether.* Toss the toolhead then you galaxy brain? Pretty sure you are talking about me here, but are too cowardly to name names, hiding behind internet "anonymity". Pathetic. But again most people are here for a game. Good game design has a lot of elements, but the one you are demanding to violate here is that a good game should be generally challenging. N00bs generally have a tough time of that first 40 copper, medium, ok at it, the first month or thereabouts, high end often have them by the second day, or even at the end of the first, even with surface copper set to "Very Rare". That's not much of a challenge. What you proposed makes tool production even less of a challenge. At least with default settings, you have to keep track of durability and make sure you don't blow it all before you have enough copper for another pick, and maybe another hammer. Even n00bs would have no trouble finding another few bits to repair a tool head, even if they had to pan a couple blocks of sand. That's no longer a game, but more of an activity. A pastime. If you want that, just set tool durability to max. 400%, I think. Or set ore to Very Common or whatever the highest setting is. Or cheat a tool head in via console or creative. What you propose could be balanced out, sure, by making ores much more uncommon. If you think 4 should repair a 20 tool head, you need to reduce ore spawns by 80% to keep things in the same balance they are now. Which puts n00bs especially in a world of hurt. [EDIT] I feel compelled to mention that I was in your shoes once. If you look, you will see several instances where I was pushing various ideas to make the game easier, including this one. I also championed removing durability entirely. And then I got a few more hours of experience in the game and realized that the balance is pretty good, particularly at Wilderness settings. It's just a bit of a steep and harsh learning curve. Edited February 14 by Thorfinn 2 1
pigfood Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 46 minutes ago, Thorfinn said: N00bs generally have a tough time of that first 40 copper, medium, ok at it, the first month or thereabouts, high end often have them by the second day, or even at the end of the first, even with surface copper set to "Very Rare". That doesn't match my experience or the experience of a lot of "professional" players, who have resorted to panning, after having been unable to get enough bits after weeks of searching. A few versions ago, surface copper was an order of magnitude easier to find. Chances are, I will have found enough wild flax for 4 linen sacks before getting 40 copper bits. And I will likely have found as many meteoric iron deposits as surface copper deposits. A lot of copper deposits only have a single copper bit or two. That being said, I don't care about realism. I'm perfectly fine with the current balancing choice, where worn tools "disappear" (which doesn't match reality at all). 1 hour ago, Thorfinn said: Even n00bs would have no trouble finding another few bits to repair a tool head, even if they had to pan a couple blocks of sand. That's no longer a game, but more of an activity. I don't get that comment. Why would you use surface copper bits/panning, after you have found the initial 40 for a hammer + pickaxe? The actual copper deposit underneath surface copper bits will have orders of magnitude more copper. For me, being able to recycle/repair worn tools would be a minor game play/balancing change.
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