1.22.0-pre.1 - Fishing, Mechanisms, Metalworking and More!

[CastIronFabric]

12 minutes ago, pigfood said:

That doesn't match my experience or the experience of a lot of "professional" players, who have resorted to panning, after having been unable to get enough bits after weeks of searching. A few versions ago, surface copper was an order of magnitude easier to find.

Chances are, I will have found enough wild flax for 4 linen sacks before getting 40 copper bits. And I will likely have found as many meteoric iron deposits as surface copper deposits. A lot of copper deposits only have a single copper bit or two.

That being said, I don't care about realism. I'm perfectly fine with the current balancing choice, where worn tools "disappear" (which doesn't match reality at all).

I don't get that comment. Why would you use surface copper bits/panning, after you have found the initial 40 for a hammer + pickaxe? The actual copper deposit underneath surface copper bits will have orders of magnitude more copper.

For me, being able to recycle/repair worn tools would be a minor game play/balancing change.

Rhadamant has what I would call a speed run to end game video series and I agree 100% with his statement (at least I think this is where I heard it). paraphrase: 'I need to run around and get all matters of materials and a lay of the land anyway I usually get 40 copper before I no longer need to do that so I rarely pann'

Same here, sometimes I do for the last 5 or so but rarely ever, and I do restarts like a crack addict.

 

[LadyWYT]

21 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

Rhadamant has what I would call a speed run to end game video series and I agree 100% with his statement (at least I think this is where I heard it). paraphrase: 'I need to run around and get all matters of materials and a lay of the land anyway I usually get 40 copper before I no longer need to do that so I rarely pann'

Rhadamant, I think, is a decent example of what the average VS veteran does to progress, and he's definitely not wrong about needing to get the lay of the land anyway. I rarely pan much these days, save for the occasional bony soil. When I first started playing though, I panned quite a lot since exploring felt very dangerous due to my lack of skill, and panning was a very safe, if boring, alternative.

[CastIronFabric]

2 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Rhadamant, I think, is a decent example of what the average VS veteran does to progress, and he's definitely not wrong about needing to get the lay of the land anyway. I rarely pan much these days, save for the occasional bony soil. When I first started playing though, I panned quite a lot since exploring felt very dangerous due to my lack of skill, and panning was a very safe, if boring, alternative.

same here exactly. I think my first play through I panned more than I have ever since a bit more than a year now and likely about 20 restarts. I have an addiction to speed running early games to just shut off my mind and go. disclaimer: I am not saying I am good at early game, its just something I like to do in all games.

[Thorfinn]

2 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

I have an addiction to speed running early games to just shut off my mind and go.

Ditto. I must have done thousands of 15-minute drills of Age of Empires and Age of Kings. I never finished those games. It was about getting my rush or my boom down pat.

[CastIronFabric]

3 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Ditto. I must have done thousands of 15-minute drills of Age of Empires and Age of Kings. I never finished those games. It was about getting my rush or my boom down pat.

and added to that, this is why I am not a fan of developers changing existing mechanics too much once they have been established. That is one thing I am concerned with on the new update. I know I have argued that things like the spears is not as big of a deal as it seems but in general not a fan of changing existing established game mechanics too much.

[Thorfinn]

1 minute ago, CastIronFabric said:

this is why I am not a fan of developers changing existing mechanics too much once they have been established.

Agreed, and they are pretty good about this. Changes tend to be pretty significant and for the better. Like pit kilns instead of fire pits. And they also set expectations well. Make it harder than maybe it needs to be, then relax things. Like all the new rusties, and the bears when they were new, and the currently (IMO) overly-nerfed spears.

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Ditto. I must have done thousands of 15-minute drills of Age of Empires and Age of Kings. I never finished those games. It was about getting my rush or my boom down pat.

Is that finishing the game in 15 minutes or advancing to Feudal in 15 minutes? Getting the AI to surrender within 15 was pretty easy on the original game version--all it took was finding the enemy town and then distracting the villagers with your scout. Getting to Feudal in 15 minutes depends mainly on how good one is at managing multiple things at once.

10 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

same here exactly. I think my first play through I panned more than I have ever since a bit more than a year now and likely about 20 restarts. I have an addiction to speed running early games to just shut off my mind and go. disclaimer: I am not saying I am good at early game, its just something I like to do in all games.

Speed running can be fun, and I usually speedrun the early game as I don't really like to start really serious building until I have iron tools. Bronze and copper just aren't durable enough for what I do. That being said, speedrunning and trying to min-max everything also leads to burnout within short order in Vintage Story. I haven't been speedrunning in 1.22 much at all, mostly due to certain bugs making it impossible, but the slower pace has been rather refreshing.

 

5 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

this is why I am not a fan of developers changing existing mechanics too much once they have been established

Ironically, I think that's partly why AoE 3 didn't really catch on like its predecessor. Was still a really fun game, but it did change quite a lot and made civ strategies much less flexible. I do agree with Thorfinn though:

3 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Agreed, and they are pretty good about this. Changes tend to be pretty significant and for the better. Like pit kilns instead of fire pits. And they also set expectations well. Make it harder than maybe it needs to be, then relax things. Like all the new rusties, and the bears when they were new, and the currently (IMO) overly-nerfed spears.

When it comes to Vintage Story, I don't get the impression they change just for the sake of change, which is what some games do(MMOs particularly). The changes that are implemented build on what's already there, often come with explanations, and the reasoning behind them is usually also quite easy to figure out .

[Thorfinn]

35 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Is that finishing the game in 15 minutes or advancing to Feudal in 15 minutes?

No, it's about PvP. No way the single scout would put a player down. Castle/bronze in 15 as long as it was full boom. Castle built in 15 with a baby boom if you were planning on a UU attack, so I think that was a 12-ish Castle. I don't remember timelines for rush.

I preferred the boom, but against players, you have to mix it up or they use your predictability against you.

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

No, it's about PvP. No way the single scout would put a player down. Castle/bronze in 15 as long as it was full boom. Castle built in 15 with a baby boom if you were planning on a UU attack, so I think that was a 12-ish Castle. I don't remember timelines for rush.

I preferred the boom, but against players, you have to mix it up or they use your predictability against you.

Oh yeah for sure, PvP is an entirely different beast. 

[pigfood]

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

Rhadamant has what I would call a speed run to end game video series and I agree 100% with his statement (at least I think this is where I heard it). paraphrase: 'I need to run around and get all matters of materials and a lay of the land anyway I usually get 40 copper before I no longer need to do that so I rarely pann'

There was a claim about non-noob players routinely finding 40+ copper surface bits in 1-2 days. From my experience, that's plain nonsense.

[CastIronFabric]

5 minutes ago, pigfood said:

There was a claim about non-noob players routinely finding 40+ copper surface bits in 1-2 days. From my experience, that's plain nonsense.

from my experience having done about at least 20 restarts (likely more) that is actually fairly normal and far from 'plain nonsense'. It CAN happen on some rolls, but for most roles is not super hard.

[Thorfinn]

4 hours ago, RogueVali said:

Approaching 140 hours on our world,

Hahahaha!

[Thorfinn]

51 minutes ago, RogueVali said:

We laughing at people having a life now? Treating "noob" like a slur? U know what, waste of time. Shining beacon of the community, this waste of space here.

No. Just reflecting on how the guy who's been on the job for 3 weeks thinks he understands the company well enough that he's right about everything.

[EDIT]

I should temper that somewhat. Your view of the game is important to what is (or used to be) a first impression. You have enough experience at it that you have an informed opinion. Maybe not grounded in enough depth, though.

Edited February 15 by Thorfinn

[Thorfinn]

1 minute ago, RogueVali said:

You really need to go touch some grass if you think 140 fkn hours is not enough to get a good grip of a game.

You obviously have not played a game as detailed as Dwarf Fortress. Or Vintage Story.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

23 minutes ago, RogueVali said:

Dwarf Fortress is literally entirely different genre, Vintage Story we've pretty much finished in those 140 hours, you sour little grape. Sorry to burst your elitist bubble. We pretty much only got story to go through, yes. I more meant progression.

I like how you took the time to edit your message but couldn't control your vitriol.

[PineReseen]

I hope that the berry bush rework will still happen! I'd love if the juicing system was expanded as a part of it, after all, juicing is one of the only options you get in terms of berries. Maybe juice could be used for meal making in a concentrated form?

[Teh Pizza Lady]

3 minutes ago, RogueVali said:

Paying in full for theirs. *tips hat*

Some recommended light reading for you here:  

 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

7 minutes ago, PineReseen said:

I hope that the berry bush rework will still happen! I'd love if the juicing system was expanded as a part of it, after all, juicing is one of the only options you get in terms of berries. Maybe juice could be used for meal making in a concentrated form?

I think some mods add the ability to make jams and jellies from fruit, as well as fruit syrups. Mostly we just make pies and stuff with them and turn the juice into alcohol for bandages.

[LadyWYT]

20 minutes ago, PineReseen said:

I hope that the berry bush rework will still happen! I'd love if the juicing system was expanded as a part of it, after all, juicing is one of the only options you get in terms of berries. Maybe juice could be used for meal making in a concentrated form?

I liked the dried/candied fruit that Expanded Foods offers, as well as the fruit bread and muffins. I expect we'll see more options someday, most likely as a smaller addition to a larger update, similar to how berry bushes are slated for rework in 1.22 but not the main focus.

[CastIronFabric]

1 hour ago, LadyWYT said:

I liked the dried/candied fruit that Expanded Foods offers, as well as the fruit bread and muffins. I expect we'll see more options someday, most likely as a smaller addition to a larger update, similar to how berry bushes are slated for rework in 1.22 but not the main focus.

agreed. My gut tells me more cooking options is coming (generally speaking).

I do not think they did what they did with fat on this round just to leave its point empty. I might watch some Townsends 18th century cooking videos on that subject to get some hints

Edited February 15 by CastIronFabric

[Facethief]

2 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

agreed. My gut tells me more cooking options is coming (generally speaking).

I do not think they did what they did with fat on this round just to leave its point empty. I might watch some Townsends 18th century cooking videos on that subject to get some hints

Suet cakes?

[Teh Pizza Lady]

7 minutes ago, Facethief said:

Suet cakes?

better than suit cakes.

EDIT: Or cake suits?

Edited February 15 by Teh Pizza Lady

[EnbyKaiju]

We've got fruit, we've got bread, it's only a matter of time before the VS devs give us the ultimate survival foodstuff: Fruitcake!!!

Judging by the sheer number of changed berry types in the experimental build I'm pretty sure the berry rework will be making it out this update. It's one of the ones they have been really keen to build on and I'm super keen to get a little more challenge & planning in to my berry harvests. Also being able to find different berry types in different climates.

I'm gonna end up with an entire pantry full of different kinds of berry jam, and I can't wait!!

[EnbyKaiju]

12 minutes ago, RogueVali said:

Hah we'll see how they'll handle berry bush acquisition. That and climates, dunno u'll be able to haul all the berries from all over the world otherwise.

If they start treating berry bushes like fruit tress we'll likely see climate-specific growth ability, so it'll be interesting. Maybe a greenhouse would be enough to grow more of the warmer-climate berries, and you'd have to grow the colder climate ones on mountains. Either way I'm keen to learn.

At worst you could travel to wherever the berries are, make the jam there & seal it, then high-tail it back home again. A cunning Seraph always finds a way to fill their larder.

On the up side, if they do actually make cold-weather berries that grow in tundra (which it looks like a few IRL are the kind that do), then we'll actually see them in snowball earth runs. Which would be rad.

[EnbyKaiju]

Yeah, that's what I'd heard too, regarding the labels. The screenshot they used looked great.

And yeah, when I was talking about treating them the same way as trees I meant like doing cuttings. Maybe you only get a couple from each bush before it has to grow them back. And there's a chance they don't take. Honestly I'd much rather have to grow my own berry plantation over time than see an area stripped of all the berry bushes so someone can have a massive berry field. I still hope that one day we'll get to put saplings in planters. Maybe not to grow fruit (or maybe the fruit you do get you only get like, one apple from an apple sapling in a pot), but I'd love to have a little cherry tree in a planter and see it blossom in the spring.

Though maybe that's because I've done both blueberry & strawberry picking as summer jobs before, the extra effort makes the berries all the sweeter.