Tier 2 mats beneath Tier 3?

[Lghtngfan]

I’m on my first playthrough, and after a few adventures, I finally found cassiterite right under my nose on the same chunk as my base. I’ll be straight: I don’t have much time to play so I used the mod that shows the Y level of specific materials in loaded chunks. So I’ve begun my trek down to Y52. (I’ve made several attempts from a few angles, but I’ve ended up dropping into a cavern with beasties around Y70. With only a cloth cap and tattered clothing due to no way to mine borax, it’s not looked pretty.)

Funnily enough, I ran into kernite (thanks modders!) at a much higher Y level. Why would a Tier 2 material exist at a much lower level (and beneath an igneous layer of peridotite) than a Tier 3 (albeit modded) vein of kernite? Is this an error in the mod? Are carts being put before horses? Is Y52 an unusually low point to find cassiterite? 

Any thoughts?

[LadyWYT]

Welcome to the forums!

24 minutes ago, Lghtngfan said:

Is Y52 an unusually low point to find cassiterite? 

Not really, and the "tier level" of the material doesn't necessarily determine where you can find it, though it should be noted that different materials have different depth ranges at which they can spawn. I've seen plenty of copper and tin deposits buried deep in the earth(sometimes near bedrock), as well as a few iron deposits that were around y=90. Do keep in mind though that surface deposits for copper and tin aren't the same thing as the deep ore deposits; surface deposits tend to be rather small but more accessible, while deep ore deposits take more effort to locate and extract but provide much more ore for the effort.

[coolAlias]

14 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

surface deposits tend to be rather small but more accessible, while deep ore deposits take more effort to locate and extract but provide much more ore for the effort.

Indeed, I just finished clearing out what turned out to be several overlapping / adjacent copper deposits around Y=58 and came out with more than 640 poor chunks, 128 medium chunks, and several crystallized chunks. I think I'm finally set on copper lol.

[PoisonedPawn777]

Can't tell you the number of times I've had a vertical shaft towards cassiterite or bismuth disrupted by quartz. My last world had all the iron buried under more ilmenite than I'll ever know what to do with. Depth doesn't really equate to higher tier ores in VS.

[Maelstrom]

36 minutes ago, coolAlias said:

 came out with more than 640 poor chunks, 128 medium chunks, and several crystallized chunks. I think I'm finally set on copper lol.

That might be enough  It depends on how many chutes, hoppers, lanterns and chests you create.  I went through about 5 times that much to make an automated quad-quern grinder.

[coolAlias]

5 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

That might be enough  It depends on how many chutes, hoppers, lanterns and chests you create.  I went through about 5 times that much to make an automated quad-quern grinder.

Oof, yeah, 4 querns is a lot! I've already got one set up with 4 hoppers and various chutes around it, this batch of copper is for a second one at some rapids I found and want to take advantage of.

[Maelstrom]

And then all the piping to funnel it to a single chest.   Took me a few weeks to figure out how to weave the power and chutes. 

 

Pics can be found here:

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Maelstrom

[LadyWYT]

17 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

That might be enough  It depends on how many chutes, hoppers, lanterns and chests you create. 

Don't forget decorating with copper either. If you use the copper roofing material, it'll get fairly expensive; same for chiseling copper accents since it currently takes five plates to make a block...at least, I think. There are mods that offer cheaper options, but complex chiseling is still a resource sink.

[Maelstrom]

Fortunately an area of ultra-high copper density is able to supply those copper needs.  Everytime I've found such an area I will find three or four different copper deposits practically overwriting each other.

[Michael Gates]

16 hours ago, Lghtngfan said:

Is Y52 an unusually low point to find cassiterite? 

Sn shows up from height 10-95 iirc, so that's just about average. In the longer run, the answer to every possible question about ores is to read https://wiki.vintagestory.at/Ore_Deposits/en#   which precisely describes the depths and rocks and disc sizes and whatnot where every ore can be found. A good page to bookmark and keep looking back to for as long as you keep playing. Magnetite appears in... peridotite, right?...

[cjameshuff]

I've actually had to dig around borax while looking for near-surface copper and bismuth. It's very strange that you need bronze to mine it, considering that it's a soft mineral (softer than calcite) that is one of only two options for making leather.

[Michael Gates]

Borax being gated behind bronze is deliberate to prevent you from accessing the advanced armors&backpacks without Serious Metals. If you're stuck in the copper age you get the primitive versions (laminar armor and the "hunter" backpacks). But, yeah, it feels weird.

They COULD make borax diggable with any pick, and then make it impossible to build a quern with less than a bronze chisel, and that would work. People would still complain about it though

[cjameshuff]

43 minutes ago, Michael Gates said:

Borax being gated behind bronze is deliberate to prevent you from accessing the advanced armors&backpacks without Serious Metals. If you're stuck in the copper age you get the primitive versions (laminar armor and the "hunter" backpacks). But, yeah, it feels weird.

They COULD make borax diggable with any pick, and then make it impossible to build a quern with less than a bronze chisel, and that would work. People would still complain about it though

Borax-cured leather isn't better than limewater-cured leather, and if you have limestone nearby, the requirement just means you use limewater instead. If you don't have limestone nearby, you're just out of luck until you get bronze.

[Chrondeath]

I mean, it's mildly strange that any ores require a higher tier of pickaxe to break than their host rock, since the ore is visibly just little chunks embedded in the rock--you shouldn't even need to apply the pick to the ore itself, just break the rock around it.

[Lghtngfan]

I can’t believe all the great replies! Love seeing all the advice and commiserations!

4 hours ago, Michael Gates said:

Sn shows up from height 10-95 iirc, so that's just about average. In the longer run, the answer to every possible question about ores is to read https://wiki.vintagestory.at/Ore_Deposits/en#   Etc.

Ha!! I looked at page a million times looking for that information and I never scrolled down far enough! I mean, come on! That’s the most important info!! LOL

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Welcome to the forums!

Not really, and the "tier level" of the material doesn't necessarily determine where you can find it, though it should be noted that different materials have different depth ranges at which they can spawn. Etc.

MC is the same way, but I think I got frustrated when I knew I had cassiterite directly below me and the kernite was in my way. I just felt like that was dirty pool!

3 hours ago, cjameshuff said:

I've actually had to dig around borax while looking for near-surface copper and bismuth. It's very strange that you need bronze to mine it, considering that it's a soft mineral (softer than calcite) that is one of only two options for making leather.

Excellent point! You can find borax at the grocery store with the laundry detergents because it is easily turns into a gritty powder.

[LadyWYT]

3 hours ago, Michael Gates said:

If you're stuck in the copper age you get the primitive versions (laminar armor and the "hunter" backpacks).

I would be inclined to agree if not for the fact that you can achieve leather without touching bronze or borax. A copper pick can mine rock, and limestone, chalk, marble, and seashells can all be ground into lime, or the player can purchase lime from certain traders. Borax is just more efficient for leatherworking.

 

3 hours ago, cjameshuff said:

I've actually had to dig around borax while looking for near-surface copper and bismuth. It's very strange that you need bronze to mine it, considering that it's a soft mineral (softer than calcite) that is one of only two options for making leather.

It could just be an oversight, as that does happen, but it could be as Michael Gates was suggesting--a skill check to help push players to bronze before they start messing with more advanced stuff. If that is the case, it would be similar to quartz in that regard; the player can make glass without actually needing to mine quartz, but it's going to be rather tedious relying on the surface bits and whatever the player can pan or find as loot.

[ArgentLuna]

4 hours ago, cjameshuff said:

if you have limestone nearby

Going by some threads on here that's a big IF

[cjameshuff]

42 minutes ago, ArgentLuna said:

Going by some threads on here that's a big IF

My previous world had a limestone-rich area nearby and I only used borax for an iron anvil and a cementation furnace. In my current world, I didn't encounter limestone until I found a translocator that linked to an area with it, and have exclusively used borax for leather. It seems very odd for the metal tier required to make leather changes based on this difference.