So about Food?

[Azcaal]

I dunno if i should be in Suggestions or in here in Questions, but i decided to post here because i gotta ask: Why? How? Bread,Pie or Porridge? But what about Jam?

Some changes in 1.15-pre don't sit right with me... (yeah, i'm aware this is more of a subjectiv topic. But every opinion counts. Care to share yours?)
- Don't get me wrong, i love the pies and the boost you can have with fruit now. No more: "Uhh, caveman eat Berry, now!" -style survival, when it comes to fruit intake. Yet i feel there are some downgrades to some other meals as a result...

Pre 1.15-pre (or better: in 1.14- stable) you had Jam, Porridge and Meat-stew with (a) boild Berry to get that extra bit of fruit-saturation. And i think with Jam you where a bit at a loss (Bug?) because the outcome was equal or less saturation to their raw total ingredients. But it had a VERY long shelf-live as a trade-off. So i considered it intended.

Since 1.15-pre10 and +, however you now have 400 fruit-sat.(saturation) with Blueberry jam! That's a (80 sat per Blueberry, 60 per honey, you need two and two -so: (2*80)+(2*60)=280 sat -> 400-280=120!) 120 extra boost to Fruit-saturation! Yes, please! And there is no cut on the shelf-live

...But why would i care for pies now? -> Sure, you put (as of 1.15pre11) 8 Berries in and get a pie worth of 12 Berries of food out! But you also need 4 doughs now (as dough they are uneatable, but they can be bread instead!). A dough turned into bread is 5* it's sat in raw grain! A Pie only delivers 960 grain-sat. (when not made of flax-grain), 4 doughs deliver 1200 grain-sat. as bread . So i loose 240 grain-sat as a trade-off. Or 4 raw grain, in other words. - not as appealing now....

I am noticing that this is getting long and i don't want to scare you off with a Wall-of-Text. So...

 

TL;DR: Pies are cool, even with the change from 1.15-pre1 to 1.15-pre11. BUT aren't some other meals loosing their relevance in comperation? Players are bound to min-max sooner or late depending on their game-progress. Some meals and food are indangered to become obsolete. Others are concerningly to-high-effort to be viable to pursue, like eggs. I rather Pig-farm for top value redmeat, instead of hassling with chicks

 

- opinions? Observations? Progressiv critisism? ( i sadly have no alternatives to present, for now)

[Satras]

By the way, you can make pies with only 2 dough if you don't add the top crust.

[l33tmaan]

This is my kind of discussion. Wish I could get this kind of analysis for Expanded Foods. 

[Streetwind]

6 hours ago, Azcaal said:

Pre 1.15-pre (or better: in 1.14- stable) you had Jam, Porridge and Meat-stew with (a) boild Berry to get that extra bit of fruit-saturation. And i think with Jam you where a bit at a loss (Bug?) because the outcome was equal or less saturation to their raw total ingredients. But it had a VERY long shelf-live as a trade-off. So i considered it intended.

Since 1.15-pre10 and +, however you now have 400 fruit-sat.(saturation) with Blueberry jam! That's a (80 sat per Blueberry, 60 per honey, you need two and two -so: (2*80)+(2*60)=280 sat -> 400-280=120!) 120 extra boost to Fruit-saturation! Yes, please! And there is no cut on the shelf-live

Not to rain on your parade, buuuut... there was actually no change made to jam in 1.15. None at all.

I was 99.9% sure of that from memory. But just for good measure, I logged into my 1.14.7 world where I remember stocking a whole shelf full of currant jams, and sure enough: each and every one of them has 400 saturation per portion.

This also matches the wiki page on cooking, which lists all the food values of ingredients when put into a pot. These values are different from the food values if eaten raw or campfire-cooked, gaining anywhere from a 33% (honey) to a 300% (grains) saturation bonus. Blueberries and currants are at 120 each here, honey at 80 each. Two berries and two honey go into a portion of jam, so: 120+120+80+80 = 400. Jam made from cranberries only yields 360, since cranberries themselves are only worth 90.

 

6 hours ago, Azcaal said:

...But why would i care for pies now? -> Sure, you put (as of 1.15pre11) 8 Berries in and get a pie worth of 12 Berries of food out! But you also need 4 doughs now (as dough they are uneatable, but they can be bread instead!). A dough turned into bread is 5* it's sat in raw grain! A Pie only delivers 960 grain-sat. (when not made of flax-grain), 4 doughs deliver 1200 grain-sat. as bread . So i loose 240 grain-sat as a trade-off. Or 4 raw grain, in other words. - not as appealing now....

It appears the dough is using the cookpot values for grain, not the breadbaking values. Not sure if intended or not. It's fair feedback, I suppose.

That said, there are now advantages for eating food warm. And if you want to restore both grain and fruit nutrition, it's easier to make one meal fresh than it is to make two meals fresh just for that one occasion. It's a minor advantage. Possibly not worth losing the saturation difference. But it's there.

Personally, I'd love to be able to bake pies with jam, not with fresh fruit. Can you already do that? I don't know, I haven't tried the prereleases yet. But I'd love to be able to do that. Because that would let me make pies fresh in winter, when I can consume them hot and benefit from the new bonus. Berries don't keep over the winter, which is the whole point of making jam: so you have fruit nutrition that keeps well. Just let me grab some jam off of my storage shelf, pour it into the pie dough, and bake the thing! The honey only makes the pie better, IMHO.

[l33tmaan]

Jam is a funny thing. I've wanted to utilize it in Expanded Foods, but since it's a meal and not an item or even a block... that makes it a lot harder to take advantage of. 

[Maelstrom]

43 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

Jam is a funny thing. I've wanted to utilize it in Expanded Foods, but since it's a meal and not an item or even a block... that makes it a lot harder to take advantage of. 

Maybe make a jam recipe that overrides the base game recipe?  Or make a crafting recipe using same amount of honey and berries that yields a jam item?

 

I'm sure you thought of that already?  

[l33tmaan]

No... but that feels really redundant and I'd rather just use jam, somehow.

[Azcaal]

7 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Not to rain on your parade, buuuut... there was actually no change made to jam in 1.15. None at all.

I was 99.9% sure of that from memory. But just for good measure, I logged into my 1.14.7 world where I remember stocking a whole shelf full of currant jams, and sure enough: each and every one of them has 400 saturation per portion.

This also matches the wiki page on cooking, which lists all the food values of ingredients when put into a pot. These values are different from the food values if eaten raw or campfire-cooked, gaining anywhere from a 33% (honey) to a 300% (grains) saturation bonus. Blueberries and currants are at 120 each here, honey at 80 each. Two berries and two honey go into a portion of jam, so: 120+120+80+80 = 400. Jam made from cranberries only yields 360, since cranberries themselves are only worth 90.

It's okay, if i'm wrong. Though i had that black-red current jam in a crook for 400 Saturation, while it became 340 Saturation in a bowl. Sadly i didn't made a ticked back then in 1.15-pre6 almost 2 weeks ago. Mostly because i am rather new to the "pointing at things and ask if their wrong or not"... - i'm trying to breack out of my shell, and actually tell/ask about game-mechanics.

7 hours ago, Streetwind said:

That said, there are now advantages for eating food warm. And if you want to restore both grain and fruit nutrition, it's easier to make one meal fresh than it is to make two meals fresh just for that one occasion. It's a minor advantage. Possibly not worth losing the saturation difference. But it's there.

I have not really noticed the boost of eating warm meals. I have to admit though, i spent the mayority of my game-time in creativ. And all of it still in single player... - has anyone else noticed that perticular new feature eating warm meals? It's lost on me tbh. Since i love that cooking mechanic and i am becoming a food horder in my playstyle!

[Azcaal]

8 hours ago, l33tmaan said:

This is my kind of discussion. Wish I could get this kind of analysis for Expanded Foods. 

I have great respect for your work! Your food mod scares me. Nay! I'm in awe of the new mechanics and all the variations it brings to the table. Sorry if i haven't checked it out thoroghly. If 1.15 becomes stable, could you make a compatibility check, please. I would love to dig deep into it, content wise, if you like. But you would have to wait a while for actuall sound feedback. Because i'm slow, and i would first take a jab at the /gamemode 1 accessability playing/goofing around in adventuremode.

[Azcaal]

8 hours ago, Satras said:

By the way, you can make pies with only 2 dough if you don't add the top crust.

Really? I never tryed that! I sincerely am mind blown. I always thought of a pie to be undone if there was no top-layer made from dough...

[l33tmaan]

53 minutes ago, Azcaal said:

I have great respect for your work! Your food mod scares me. Nay! I'm in awe of the new mechanics and all the variations it brings to the table. Sorry if i haven't checked it out thoroghly. If 1.15 becomes stable, could you make a compatibility check, please. I would love to dig deep into it, content wise, if you like. But you would have to wait a while for actuall sound feedback. Because i'm slow, and i would first take a jab at the /gamemode 1 accessability playing/goofing around in adventuremode.

Don't worry, it'll be ready for 1.15... eventually. I'll release a version that updates a lot of food to be usable in the new clay oven, and then follow up with a version that actually adds new food and utilizes the new crops.