Homesteading part 2 & Combat update, stable finetune (1.16.1)

[Tyron]

Dear Homesteaders
v1.16.1, a stable release, can now be downloaded through the account manager.

This release fixes some minor imbalances, minor annoyances and other loose ends in 1.16.0.

Game updates since 1.16.0

• Feature: Mash can now be placed in troughs. Mash spoils 3 times slower.
• Feature: Can now cut the green and brown bamboo shoots into edible shoots
• Tweak: Disabled WASD map scrolling, but left in arrow key map scrolling
• Tweak: Fine tune spear and longblade first person animations some more
• Tweak: Increase longblade hit speed and damage output by 25%
• Tweak: Crash reporter now also prints loaded mods
• Tweak: Malefactor increase whole loot vessel from 10% to 12%
• Tweak: Increase active and passive block chance of the shield by 5%
• Tweak: Updated torch information in the starter guide.
• Tweak: Server owners can now customize the auction house rates through 3 values:

      auctionHouseDeliveryPriceMul - multiplier on the delivery costs (default: 1)
      auctionHouseDurationWeeksMul - multiplier on the auction duration (does not affect gear cost)  (default: 3, min: 1)
      auctionHouseSalesCutRate - % cut the trader takes (default 0.1 = 10%)

      configured via

      /worldconfigcreate float auctionHouseDeliveryPriceMul 1
      /worldconfigcreate int auctionHouseDurationWeeksMul 1
      /worldconfigcreate float auctionHouseSalesCutRate 0.1

• Tweak: White selected block highlight now limited to chiseling dark blocks
• Tweak: Tripled auction placement duration. Fixed multiplier worldconfig still affecting deposit cost.
• Fixed: Blackguard recipes no longer consume a whole iron hammer
• Fixed: Pineapple slices juicing into apple juice
• Fixed: Z-fighting with the "layered" hair style
• Fixed: Game crashing if two mods with the same mod id are in the mods folder
• Fixed: {plr} command block place holder not working as intended
• Fixed: Fruit press interaction help suggesting placing liquid containers that are not placeable
• Fixed: Spear/Sword hit sound globally hearable in multiplayer
• Fixed: Hitbox hole in the trunk block
• Fixed: Mod downloader ditched any custom server port after attempting to join
• Fixed: Mod downloader slightly less blocking window while downloading, also fixed wrong download counter
• Fixed: Chisel crash/freeze when trying to chisel against a placed wall linen
• Fixed: Major derp when placing multiple auctions at once
• Fixed: Fruit tree not fully respecting greenhouse benefits
• Fixed: Flowers getting frost overlay when they shouldn't
• Fixed: Should theoretically fix crash when sleeping
• Fixed: Should fix too many decimal places when looking at crock meal servings
• Fixed: Game client crash when looking at pre 1.12 chiseled blocks in inventory
• Fixed: Not able to place wall signs on solid chiseled blocks
• Fixed: Might fix a rare crash issue related to charcoal pits
• Fixed: Dupe bug with fruit mash
• Fixed: Avoid the game crashing from corrupted blocks that have mycelium on them
• Fixed: Might fix sign block rotation multiplayer desync
• Fixed: Framerate drops when searching in the handbook
• Fixed: Dupe bug with moving liquids between containers
• Fixed: Mitigate cases of rifts spawning where they shouldn't
• Fixed: Game crashing when disabling invalid mods in the mod manager
• Fixed: Unrelated exception thrown when a source mod had a compile error
• Fixed: Game client crashing on non-existant blocks (blocks that had a block id for which there was no block or missing block associated)
• Fixed: Some lang entries were missing
• Fixed: Multiple derps with the fruit press, most notable when placing 16 fruit items
• Fixed: Servers did not properly unregister from the master server
• Fixed: Two of the purple dye recipes did not result in the right dye amounts
• Fixed: Cheating traders. They received the full gear amount of a full auction.
• Fixed: Rusty gears off-center when placed on shelves
• Fixed: Visual issues with potted fern
• Api Tweak: Much improved mounting system. Should make adding boats/horses/airships much simpler. Published a reference implementation for a 2-seated boat (assets shamelessly copied from the xrowboat mod)
• Api Tweak: Json patches with unmet patching conditions now log the failing condition into the server/client-debug.txt files
• Api Tweak: Grid crafting per ingredient liquid consumption should now be possible via recipeAttributes: { requiresContent: {...}, requiresLitres: 0.2 }
• Api Fixed: Two crashes related to modded bowls

 

Changes since 1.16.1-rc.3 (also listed above)

• Api Tweak: Json patches with unmet patching conditions now log the failing condition into the server/client-debug.txt files
• Fixed: Multiple derps with the fruit press, most notable when placing 16 fruit items
• Fixed: Servers did not properly unregister from the master server
• Fixed: Two of the purple dye recipes did not result in the right dye amounts
• Fixed: Cheating traders. They received the full gear amount of a full auction.

 

 

View full record

[setne550]

This is great. Aside that all types of mashed fruits can be used as pig/goat meal, I can now enjoy eating bamboo shoots. It made me recall eating them in the past.

[DrEngine]

The new version 1.16 has a lot of interesting stuff. However the nerfing of longblade is frustrating still (even after 1.16.1 tweaking). The main problem is speed of hitting. It's still slow and player can't aim and hit precisely so many of hits are missed (drifters and wolves are moving quickly). 

When I started to play VS and I first met wolf it was very frustrating - wolf killed me in few seconds. This repeated many times. Only after reaching iron/steel period I was able to produce strong longblade (steel) and better armor (iron). Then I was able to face wolf and win. The key was facing the wolf and hitting as quick as possible. After some time and experience I was able to meet more wolves at once and face them without fear and with high probability of success.

1.16 version longblade nerfing totally changed this. Now it's frustrating experience again even with iron armor and steel longblade. The biggest problem is hitting speed (slow). It has a tremendous influence on success. I think the settings is very bad because if I use simple bismuth-bronze axe the result is the same. Thats definitely wrong.

I don't know what was the reason the developers to implement such a huge change.

I'd like to get back or at least to have some parameters in game settings to change longblade hitting speed.

[Domkrats]

2 hours ago, DrEngine said:

However the nerfing of longblade is frustrating still (even after 1.16.1 tweaking).

Longblade before had to recieve some love though...that's a fact. It was weightless and moved so quick like chopping onions.  Maybe some shortword will be introduced later that could move faster yet make smaller damage. I have to give credits to DEVs as i was one of those who was expecting some combat changes.

I think it is more that many players are used to running around caresless while now you have to be more carefull till you get some better gear. Also shield helps a lot in combat now. I could agree that without shield using sword effectively is harder now. But i understand that running in dark was more convenient with lantern in other hand than shield.  Now you have to keep lantern/torch right next to sword so you can place it down if some combat happpens and switch to sword. After that you can pick up lantern un return to your trip.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Domkrats

[Streetwind]

4 hours ago, DrEngine said:

I don't know what was the reason the developers to implement such a huge change.

Personal opinion start:

Because it was sorely needed. The old way was really bad. Whenever I thought about "should I recommend VS to my friends", the way the combat with the sword worked was always one of the primary things that made me hestitate and think "maybe wait just one more update so they don't get the wrong first impression". I mean really - you took it in hand, you held down the button, you got a nondescript block mining animation, and if an enemy wandered into range, they took damage. But only every second hit or so, because the sword hit too fast for each hit to register. You lost durability for every hit, though...

If I wanted to fight things with a mining animation, I'd equip a pickaxe and stand in front of a rock wall.

I only ever fought something with with a longblade once, back in 1.12, when I started with VS. I had looted a copper one, so I went to try it on a surface drifter. It took fourteen hits to die, due to the hit clipping described above. I didn't understand that at the time, but I instantly hated how it felt and went back to spears, which killed surface drifters in five hits. Slower ones, but each one felt like it mattered. Also, it didn't have that rapid slap-slap-slap-slap noise of the sword-spam, which sounded more like someone was doing things best left unmentioned in polite conversation down below the table, and less like a fight. Moreover, the fact that spears required paying attention to attack timing made me feel like I was actively engaging in combat instead of just waiting for the enemy to die in the same way I wait for a block to break. Getting better at timing my attacks directly translated into better combat performance, and that felt very satisfying.

Ever since then, I've only used spears for melee combat. I've played a new world each in 1.13, 1.14, and 1.15, and reached steelmaking and all that jazz, and I never touched a longblade ever again - apart from tossing them out of my inventory if I accidentally looted one, that is. Now in 1.16.1, I'm finally willing to try a sword again, thanks to these changes.

Personal opinion end.

 

A less personal opinion colored reason, perhaps:

Because this is an early access title a long way from being finished. Now is the time to experiment, to try out new game systems, see how they work. Sometimes a new implementation doesn't work out, and gets axed later. Sometimes you need to try something to understand that it's not good. Perhaps this implementation is good, or perhaps it isn't. Perhaps we can do better, and perhaps we will.

Right now, people are trying out the new system, and are giving feedback. You don't like it and prefer the old one. I didn't like the old one and prefer the new way. Other people are chiming in with their thoughts, and of course, Tyron is also testing stuff himself. This can have one of three results: a rollback to the old way; sticking to the current way; or replacing it with yet another, different implementation.

But whatever way it goes, don't be surprised to see big, sweeping changes implemented in a game that is under active development. It'll happen again in the future. Several times. With this game system and/or others.

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Streetwind

[DrEngine]

@Streetwind first of all: it's very rare to see such a deep complex answer. I like it very much whether or not you like the new longblade.
I fully understand your opinions including your preference (spear). Your complex answer motivated me to try longbow/shield combo once more. However I doubt I'll love it. I can truly accept some lack of previous comfortability for more realistic combat behaviour. Although I think I'll definitely prefer some improvement concerning longbow aiming/speed. Or improvement concerning longbow hit power.
Another point of view: if I use steel axe for combat the result is near the same. Thats definitely bad ! Longbow should have much more usability for combat than axe.

[Streetwind]

14 minutes ago, DrEngine said:

Another point of view: if I use steel axe for combat the result is near the same. Thats definitely bad !

Yeah, there's an underlying issue here with allowing tools to deal damage without treating them as weapons. I can imagine multiple solutions, but am unsure what the right one might be.

One solution would be to remove damage output from everything that is not specifically a weapon. Pros: very little dev effort; internal consistency. Cons: not immersive. Players will expect to be able to hit something with an axe and make it hurt. When they cannot, that will feel jarring.

Another solution: have a button to enter a dedicated combat stance. Outside of combat stance, everything works as a tool, and nothing deals damage. In combat stance, nothing works as a tool, and everything deals damage. Pros: internal consistency; you can fight with anything, and it'll be balanced; allows switching to an entirely different animation set; allows remapping buttons without interfering with out of combat gameplay; room for special mechanics. Cons: gigantic dev effort. It's a completely new system that needs to be built from the ground up. This is the sort of thing that needs an entire major version update dedicated to it.

And a third solution would be... do nothing, and accept that that's just how it is. Pros: least dev effort (namely none); using an axe to fight can be intentionally left in for those players who dislike the new combat system. Cons: internally inconsistent; very hard to balance.

There might be more.

[Philtre]

I said this in a different thread, but to expand on it in light of Streetwind's comments: I also preferred the older longblade behavior. Personally I don't enjoy combat; I understand why it exists, and I'll put up with it, but if I have to fight something, I don't want "engaging" combat mechanics, I just want to make the problem go away as quickly and with as little effort as possible. Like DrEngine said, the delay before and between attacks makes it harder to hit moving targets, and just generally makes the longblade feel slow and unresponsive. I always avoided melee with spears for that exact reason. The most recent tweak to increase the attack speed is definitely an improvement, but I still don't like the new longblade very much. I'd be OK with adding a second, lighter sword type with a fast swing similar to the old longblade but less overall DPS, as long as it had similar range.

[DrEngine]

21 hours ago, Domkrats said:

Longblade before had to recieve some love though...that's a fact. It was weightless and moved so quick like chopping onions.  Maybe some shortword will be introduced later that could move faster yet make smaller damage. I have to give credits to DEVs as i was one of those who was expecting some combat changes.

I think it is more that many players are used to running around caresless while now you have to be more carefull till you get some better gear. Also shield helps a lot in combat now. I could agree that without shield using sword effectively is harder now. But i understand that running in dark was more convenient with lantern in other hand than shield.  Now you have to keep lantern/torch right next to sword so you can place it down if some combat happpens and switch to sword. After that you can pick up lantern un return to your trip.

Exactly described new situation. One major problem is you lost the lantern in case of the death. You can use torches of course but main inventory bar is getting more and more filled (shield or lantern, torches, spear, ...) and its managing starts to be frustrating.

[Irulana]

I wasn't fan of 1.16 long-blade changes, I switched to axe. 1.16.1 sword is quite usable again. It could be slightly faster/stronger. I can again fight high tier drifters, although it's still is a problem of unrealistic flying push backs by drifters. And 2nd problem is sword is no longer a tool that you can use for example to get rid of leaves while traveling. i hope this will be back. Axe in this case is better multi purpose tool.

[setne550]

On 1/26/2022 at 10:47 PM, Irulana said:

I wasn't fan of 1.16 long-blade changes, I switched to axe. 1.16.1 sword is quite usable again. It could be slightly faster/stronger. I can again fight high tier drifters, although it's still is a problem of unrealistic flying push backs by drifters. And 2nd problem is sword is no longer a tool that you can use for example to get rid of leaves while traveling. i hope this will be back. Axe in this case is better multi purpose tool.

Yeah. To be honest I never bother making long-blades, just relying on bows and axes like some norsemen back then. Besides Axes makes a handy tool and weapon.