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You need to rework spawning.


Yozo

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Setting your spawn with a temporal gear is pretty stupid. First of, they are very rare unless you go for the strongest drifters which just kill you until you have armor.

And secondly, they make playing online pretty much impossible. You can't set your spawn, so you're stuck in an infnite death loop and oh boy is that what fun is all about! Just doing the same shit over and over and getting nowhere!

Just please fix your fucking spawn set mechanic so that I can fucking play online godamnit!

And of coutse nobody is ever willing to help because 'my precious rare temporal gear'

Just fucking copy Minecraft and make bed spawns. Fuck. I just want to have fun online but I can't and singleplayer is just boring me after 200 hours.

Edited by Yozo
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Oooh a strong language. I was starting from the scratch 10 times at multiplayer server. And also many times killed by wolf and bears.. Once I went over 15k block without death, set the base, and find way to get TG from ordinery drifter. Cause there is a chance to get TG from base drifter. And after all you get it ! So maybe it is in you, not the game. I like this setspawn system. And, some servers (like mine cz server) have homes system. My dvice, be more careful and try to avoid deep woods and try to walk in the daylight. Don´t blame something that works fine for everybody else, but not for you. What I blame is sometimes OP wolves jumping above me in a pack. But it happens in nature.

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No, it wouldn't be called stupid for spawning to be a restricted function. That's extremely common in games. It just something you don't like. And ofc you can easily change that.

 

Surely there are servers with it set differently? Creative mode types or just exploration mode or whatever? If not... make one. You'll probably attract the folks who prefer easier spawning.

 

I intend to use the rare loot as spawn refill system myself, but I'll likely change my world base spawn to my house. As opposed to building a small shack there with a lit road to my house, kinda thing.

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I went through that phase, too, @Yozo.

Easiest way to get past it is to learn how not to get hit by playing single player for as long as it takes. Double headed are not that hard to deal with, 6, maybe 8  flint spears or so. Somewhere around there, anyway. I never paid enough attention; I just chuck spears until he drops, and I rarely have better than Improvised armor (firewood and grass) for at least the first storm or two.

@DejFidOFF is right -- you have about even odds of getting a TG at just 25 surface drifters, which can happen on the first night if you are lucky enough to get Apocalyptic activity. I'm never that lucky. Usually I don't get Apoc except during the daytime, for at least the first month.

There are first night drifter traps you can build that allow you to harvest with impunity, but do that sparingly. You need to get good enough to live through a storm.

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48 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Easiest way to get past it is to learn how not to get hit by playing single player for as long as it takes. Double headed are not that hard to deal with, 6, maybe 8  flint spears or so. Somewhere around there, anyway. I never paid enough attention; I just chuck spears until he drops, and I rarely have better than Improvised armor (firewood and grass) for at least the first storm or two.

Wimp!  I'm taking down double headed au naturel even after I have gambeson.  Playing as a blackguard my ranged damage is a bit lower and takes me 8-10.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I went through that phase, too, @Yozo.

Easiest way to get past it is to learn how not to get hit by playing single player for as long as it takes. Double headed are not that hard to deal with, 6, maybe 8  flint spears or so. Somewhere around there, anyway. I never paid enough attention; I just chuck spears until he drops, and I rarely have better than Improvised armor (firewood and grass) for at least the first storm or two.

@DejFidOFF is right -- you have about even odds of getting a TG at just 25 surface drifters, which can happen on the first night if you are lucky enough to get Apocalyptic activity. I'm never that lucky. Usually I don't get Apoc except during the daytime, for at least the first month.

There are first night drifter traps you can build that allow you to harvest with impunity, but do that sparingly. You need to get good enough to live through a storm.

I don't like playing against RNG. I killed 50-80 drifters in my single player world and still not a single Temp Gear so I said fuck it and /gm 2 gave me one. Then it still took another 30 or so drifter kills before I finally got one 'the way it was meant to be'. After 80 hours on that world I still only gotten two Temp Gears. So that means I have to keep dying over and over trying to kill dangerous drifters in multiplayer for 3-4 days of play time before I can finally start playing and enjoying myself? While also fighting against hunger? Is that a joke?

I used to play on 2b2t and other anarchy servers on Minecraft. I never even bothered with normal 'safe' servers. 2b2t especially is very hard - 15-20k blocks of wasteland from spawn in every direction. Most just die. Also the first 3000 block from spawn is pure chaos from bed rock to world height. It's near impossible to traverse the terrain there. And all that while you can see people in chat actively trying to hunt you with elytras and the likes. I got away on my first try. Not RNG based thus doable.

I always lose against RNG. I never win. Ever. I'm serious.

They ought to make spawn crystals or whatever and have the drop chance be 10%.

 

BTW, I'm not shitting on the game, I like the game but please fix tyhe fucking spawn. It's endlessly frustyrating tyo fight RNG basded shithrhdehehehedthdhdh

I probably won't even touch it anymore because this really ruins it for me. Jesus fucking christ. I just want to play survival online without wasting hours of my time in a cirtcle of endless death. This is very boring. This shitty system is pure cock blocking/filtering. I hate it.

Edited by Yozo
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Also, btw. Either servers are modded to a laggy mess and STILL don't have the bed spawn mod and if they do have the bed spawn mod (a server that respects your time) they are in an obscure language like Polish or Finnish or whatever.

So, no. That is not an option, the only option is they should change the way spawning works.

Singleplayer is boring now and I can't play multiplayer because of this as I'm not wasting one month of my life to finally have a temp gear with this shitty RNG to start playing normally.

I'm also not paying for my own sever to then not have anyone join and thus it's really just singleplayer while paying 410 a month.

Fix your fucking spawning system. This really ruins it.

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8 hours ago, Yozo said:

I don't like playing against RNG. I killed 50-80 drifters in my single player world and still not a single Temp Gear so I said fuck it and /gm 2 gave me one. Then it still took another 30 or so drifter kills before I finally got one

Wow. That's really bad luck. 0.9734^80=0.11. That is, there's only an 11% chance of failing 80 times in a row. On the upside, that should be almost one linen sack just from drifter loot. Lots of people don't manage to get even one sack in their first in 3-4 days.

 

8 hours ago, Yozo said:

After 80 hours on that world I still only gotten two Temp Gears.

Now that is extraordinarily bad luck. It's what, 8.4 hours per game month, so you are into winter, at least 8 storms? I thought a double-headed was guaranteed in each storm, and each was a guaranteed 1-2 TGs. Pretty sure I'm getting at least two double headed per storm. But maybe it's not guaranteed at all. Dunno.

It also seems to me that one of the traders has one quite often, but in a multiplayer world, it would not surprise me if someone else snagged it.

Hunger can indeed a problem in a multiplayer world. But on the other hand, in a multiplayer world, people tend to cooperate, so while maybe no one will part with a temporal gear, (though why they wouldn't I can't fathom -- I've generally got a trunk full of them by spring of year 2, collecting only from storms and caving and the occasional surface drifter who won't leave me alone) finding people willing to give you a handout of food that's just going to spoil anyway should be easy. Heck, they almost can't have enough livestock to get rid of all the flax grain alone.

This will probably not be taken in the spirit intended, but setting a respawn should probably not be your focus in a survival game, but, rather, y'know, surviving. 

Edited by Thorfinn
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10 hours ago, Yozo said:

I just want to play survival online without wasting hours of my time in a cirtcle of endless death. 

So let's stop talking about respawning and start talking about this circle of death.  Since you survived escaping spawn on 2b2t you should be good at avoiding every single thing that causes death in VS.  If you don't die then you don't respawn and temporal gears aren't as a big a problem.

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16 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Wow. That's really bad luck. 0.9734^80=0.11. That is, there's only an 11% chance of failing 80 times in a row. On the upside, that should be almost one linen sack just from drifter loot. Lots of people don't manage to get even one sack in their first in 3-4 days.

 

Now that is extraordinarily bad luck. It's what, 8.4 hours per game month, so you are into winter, at least 8 storms? I thought a double-headed was guaranteed in each storm, and each was a guaranteed 1-2 TGs. Pretty sure I'm getting at least two double headed per storm. But maybe it's not guaranteed at all. Dunno.

It also seems to me that one of the traders has one quite often, but in a multiplayer world, it would not surprise me if someone else snagged it.

Hunger can indeed a problem in a multiplayer world. But on the other hand, in a multiplayer world, people tend to cooperate, so while maybe no one will part with a temporal gear, (though why they wouldn't I can't fathom -- I've generally got a trunk full of them by spring of year 2, collecting only from storms and caving and the occasional surface drifter who won't leave me alone) finding people willing to give you a handout of food that's just going to spoil anyway should be easy. Heck, they almost can't have enough livestock to get rid of all the flax grain alone.

This will probably not be taken in the spirit intended, but setting a respawn should probably not be your focus in a survival game, but, rather, y'know, surviving. 

Tbh, I don't really bother with the storms lol because I don't have armor yet. I just sand myself in and t+Win button out of it and wait until the sound stop then go back into the game and carry on. But yes, 2 temp gears from drifters. RNG is never on my side. Hasn't ever been throughout my entire life. It's really weird. Even when playing things like Monopoly as a kid. My younger brother has always had good RNG - even in games. He'd gamble in games and get rich quick and then I'd try and lose a heap of money lol

Like I said, for some reason RNG is never on my side. Which is why I absolutely hate RNG.

14 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

So let's stop talking about respawning and start talking about this circle of death.  Since you survived escaping spawn on 2b2t you should be good at avoiding every single thing that causes death in VS.  If you don't die then you don't respawn and temporal gears aren't as a big a problem.

Minecraft is different, if you don't move, your hunger doesn't deplete. So by wonder after barely surving somwhere at the 15k block mark I found a little hut that gave food to surviving players but of course it was all empty, but what it did give was WOOD in the structure, so I used that to make hoe and then got some grass and voila, now I was set. So then I planted the grain, hid into a mountian shut in the 1x1 opening wth some dirt, toggle crouched so to hide my name ESC + Win and just did something else while I waited for the crops to grow.

Once they grew I made bread, ate them all and moved on. Did the same a while later, then found some web, made a bed, set spawn found a nether highway and just walked for 8k block into the nether, got out and set up a base.

That's how you do it.

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In my opinion, it would be better to make it possible to stack the temporal gear. This will give you the opportunity to spawn while traveling where you stopped for research. but this is my opinion as a player who is not very strong in battles))))

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On 3/22/2024 at 12:30 AM, BunnyKate said:

In my opinion, it would be better to make it possible to stack the temporal gear. This will give you the opportunity to spawn while traveling where you stopped for research. but this is my opinion as a player who is not very strong in battles))))

There is a mod for that.

https://mods.vintagestory.at/temporalgearsstack

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I really feel your sentiment about death and spawning, I really do.
My personal opinion is when you're starting out, accentuate your gameplay with a few mods to make it easier on yourself. No need to torture yourself like I did on my first run.
I grabbed a "server utilities" mod which gives me popular Minecraft server commands like /sethome and /warp so that I can get a better grasp on the game's mechanics before I do a more pure and unforgiving run myself. If you hate having to spawn hundreds of blocks away repeatedly, I would recommend either using a mod like this, OR changing the default settings to reduce the spawn range so you have a set default area you can make a starter base from for expeditions back to your true base.

But comparing 2B2T to VS is like bananas and walnuts. The survival strategies you employ dealing with the advent of an overrun uncontrolled anarchistic society aren't anything like the struggle against an everlooming threat that can appear right in front of you at the drop of a pin. Both of them have their unique challenges and the knowledge doesn't really overlap or bleed over well. All I can say is that you learn and adapt over time. Apologies if that's a tired expression and it's just upsetting to hear, I just want to offer a different perspective.

I do hope you take my suggestions to heart Yozo. My RNG isn't the most pleasant either but I'm swimming in gears at this point now that I've upgraded my weapons. I don't even have armor yet, takes too much material IMO, but I'm a wizard and I played a TON of Vermintide, so I know how to dodge and weave in melee.

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Yozo, the nice thing about VS (and the devs) is that they recognise not everyone likes the grind.

They've given us a huge amount of customisability in world creation, and the ability to use loads of mods to make the game play how we want.

For example, the start of my current game had passive mobs (only animals would attack if I hit them, drifters and locusts never).

So I could take it easy and just learn the systems.

There must be commands you can run to set your spawn.

This might not work on a server, but for single player you can customise to a high degree.

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On 3/23/2024 at 10:47 PM, Morfs said:

I really feel your sentiment about death and spawning, I really do.
My personal opinion is when you're starting out, accentuate your gameplay with a few mods to make it easier on yourself. No need to torture yourself like I did on my first run.
I grabbed a "server utilities" mod which gives me popular Minecraft server commands like /sethome and /warp so that I can get a better grasp on the game's mechanics before I do a more pure and unforgiving run myself. If you hate having to spawn hundreds of blocks away repeatedly, I would recommend either using a mod like this, OR changing the default settings to reduce the spawn range so you have a set default area you can make a starter base from for expeditions back to your true base.

But comparing 2B2T to VS is like bananas and walnuts. The survival strategies you employ dealing with the advent of an overrun uncontrolled anarchistic society aren't anything like the struggle against an everlooming threat that can appear right in front of you at the drop of a pin. Both of them have their unique challenges and the knowledge doesn't really overlap or bleed over well. All I can say is that you learn and adapt over time. Apologies if that's a tired expression and it's just upsetting to hear, I just want to offer a different perspective.

I do hope you take my suggestions to heart Yozo. My RNG isn't the most pleasant either but I'm swimming in gears at this point now that I've upgraded my weapons. I don't even have armor yet, takes too much material IMO, but I'm a wizard and I played a TON of Vermintide, so I know how to dodge and weave in melee.

In singleplayer I just /gm 2 myself a gear and that's that. Plenty enough challenge losing all your stuff 200 blocks underground 2500 blocks from home. I'm ok with that. That's fair - it's a controllable risk. Sadly one can't do that online. So I end up getting frustrated and burned out. It's just no fun to circle into flint -> spear -> mobs -> 100 kills on still no Temp Gear. I don't feel like doing that at all. I already got burned out a few months ago with collecting cattail root only to come online the next day and find the stack rotten because it's online so time keeps going... Collecting more cattail just ends in needing to eat the collected cattail root to keep on looking for more cattail roots. The whole area is picked is also picked clean by other players two years ago. Walking on you get chased by wolves so you get hungrier etc etc. There's no getting anywhere like this. Pure waste of time.

Spawn is also cleared of flint and useful things so you have to walk 2k+ blocks each time you die and do boring stuff for hours on end with the grim hope of getting a gear so you can maybe finally start playing the game if now you don't run into a bear by pure RNG lottery.

Way to get burned out in record time.

I like the other resistances but NOT this one (altho they could perhaps tweak the underground drifter and wolf spawn rate. Wolf packs don't even live this closeby to eachother as they are very territorial). IMO doing re-spawning like this is nonsensical - and to add insult to injury, NO server except two have the bedspawn mod, and one of those is littered with heaps of countless trash mods. So one remains only to turn into a crashing mess three days later because 'I just NEED moar mods' plus it was Polish.

So, none really exist lmao and I got angry and came here. When I have the weekend to myself and just want to play a game and relax I don't like having to waste my time to try and get 'the holy game play enabling gear'.

Just thinking about it I get bored out of my mind already. Christ. I have barely touched the game since making this thread - which is a damn shame.

I grinded more than enough of Silkroad Online and Fly For Fun 17 years ago to never bother with grinding ever again. Trust me.

;)

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I'm pretty sure cattail roots do not spoil until you cook them.

But your issues are exactly the ones I dislike about multiplayer -- berry bushes, crops, stones, trees, cattails, etc. are generated only at mapgen and never again. It's particularly bad on a public server where some players have lost interest in the game and never log on again, yet have claimed all the relocated berry bushes and cattails. The seeds he accumulated are locked up. Any knappable stones are long-since gone, converted to paths and fences and buildings. Even animal spawns (except maybe wolves -- not convinced one way or the other) seem to wait until the prior ones are dead and gone before respawning. One player with rabbit traps seems to prevent rabbit spawns. I've even been in the situation I could not knap the knife to make a pan, nor the axe to gather the wood.  Your only choice is to leave the developed world and head off on your own. At which point, why not just play a single-player world?

But that's more of a multi-player complaint than a respawn complaint. Though, since I play permadeath, setting a respawn is less than pointless.

[EDIT]

In case my point wasn't obvious, in permadeath, there is no such thing as  'the holy game play enabling gear'. It's all about learning how not to die.

[/EDIT]

Edited by Thorfinn
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  • 2 weeks later...

this might be a little late but [/serverconfig setspawnhere]
thats what i used. you can put in a good little location where your village or town is where you do most of the living and doing

at the same time you can change the spawn radius to be HUMANLY reasonable like 0 or 10 blocks using [/worldconfig spawnradius (0-1000000)]

i think vintage story handles it pretty badly for players who arent die hard purists, given the difficult of climbing out of a jungle every time you die. i want a game not a test of will power.

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It's not a die-hard purist thing, though. There is absolutely no reason you could not choose to play regular old standard mode, with its 50 block radius respawn. Build your starter home near spawn (probably outside the 50 radius so if you are not spawning near where the pack of wolves who killed you are) and once you have your first temporal gear, then relocate somewhere to build your dream house.

The only reason the spawn mechanic is an inconvenience is that people insist on traveling a month of Sundays looking for their ideal location before building more than a 2x2x2 hole in the ground. This game is really not like that other game at all. If you have not figured out the tricks of battling wolves and bears and drifters, it's going to be really difficult to just go around with crappy armor and count on holing up at night.

And that's as should be. If you make the basic seraph too durable, there's little point to the handful of HP you can build through nutrition, little point to building better armor, unless you also increase the damage of wolves, drifters, bears, etc. to compensate for nerfing the threat. At which point, why rebalance things in the first place?

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I think there may be some intention behind the mechanics, namely making it so that relocating to faraway lands is gated behind some early progression, but it needs to be communicated better. Something as simple as having some kind of gate or portal model at the location where you spawn would quickly teach the player that there is a physical spot in the world where they will spawn, and it will take effort to change it. Right now you just reappear with no explanation other than "because Minecraft".

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It IS unnecessarily difficult to adjust your spawn point, and I would like it if they changed it to your bed, because why not? Using a temporal gear to adjust your spawn is an obstacle that only adds frustration and wasted time to the game.

As a workaround in any server you have admin rights in (including singleplayer) you can type "/serverconfig setspawnhere" without the quotation marks and then your spawn is changed to where you're standing, but obviously you shouldn't have to use server commands to fix what should be addressed in actual gameplay.

Edited by Nkeyo
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I have no problem with needing a temporal gear to reset spawn.  This game is not easy, and a bed resetting spawn would be such a departure from the difficulty presented in the rest of this game.  I think the current mechanic makes it a motivating factor to get that first temporal gear.  Craft 6 flint spears and grind out some drifter kills.  That's not hard given some flat terrain about 100 blocks in diameter.

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I also had problems initially with the spawning mechanic of using temporal gears. A problem I negated on single player worlds by building my home at the spawn point itself. If I die, I respawn at my home. And two, temporal gears is a minor annoyance to get for me, but not impossible. Having pit traps ready also helps to get closer. Only annoyance sometimes is having to travel a good distance to get the first trees, and I make a point to get seeds as well, and replant them back at home. Once they grow, I get to a point eventually where the locally planted trees supplies all my needs. Same with the berry bushes.

 

Having the current system imo is better than minecraft as it fits the theme of Vintage Story a lot better than a simple bed respawn.

Edited by Dilan Rona
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