Vintage Story Fantasy (Adventure Mode)

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, Facethief said:

Man, what if they added, like, scrolls, or something, and they were like really old. And because they were so old, people, like, sought them out for information… like an elder or something. And then they exist in like, an RPG, set on like, the rim of the Sky or something.

I know you're joking, but it's actually part of the VS lore...mostly. Without spoiling too much, there are several books and scrolls that are very old, that shed light on things that happened in the past. Some do seek them out for the information they may(or may not) contain, however, most human survivors can no longer read such literature either.

Spoiler

The NPCs aren't illiterate, it's just been that long since the cataclysm. Human NPCs have plenty of books in their homes, so they can obviously read and write, but they can no longer understand the writing of old. It's also why all the human NPCs(except traders, which really need updating) sound very different than the player--the spoken language is still similar enough to understand(also because the plot demands it), but to the NPCs the player talks rather funny.

 

[Echo Weaver]

35 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

1.The latest update they have made some alterations to the main story quests because 'we were not happy with how the story part of the last update worked out'

2. If VS currently is NOT a RPG, then why would we think a RPG version of it would not have quests because there are blocks in it? Is that more of a wish or a prediction made out of foundation?

I think you're reading #1 differently than I do. That reads to me like software engineers who are working hard to make things the best they can be. It is not a rejection of the approach to the story they have taken. I read that they don't like some of the details, probably because players ended up doing things differently than they expected, so they are adjusting details.

Re #2, I absolutely expect there to be quests. I can't imagine an RPG without quests, and in fact most of the brainstorming on this thread is about what form quests would take. The phrasing of your #2 indicates that you think quests of any kind would be a bad thing? 

I think what most of us agree would be a bad thing is a rigid required story progression that takes you to the end of the game, where you "beat" it. There are plenty of examples of RPG games that don't take that approach. Whatever they do needs to be compatible with procedural world generation.

I'd love to hear ideas you'd like to see in Adventure Mode.

35 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

keep in mind, the grandfather of all block games has a 'story mode'

Just to be clear, Minecraft Story Mode, despite its name, is a totally different game by Telltale that licensed the Minecraft name and art style.

Edited July 11, 2025 by Echo Weaver

[LadyWYT]

2 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

I think you're reading #1 differently than I do. That reads to me like software engineers who are working hard to make things the best they can be. It is not a rejection of the approach to the story they have taken. I read that they don't like some of the details, probably because players ended up doing things differently than they expected, so they are adjusting details.

I think this sentiment is spot-on. Quite a bit of Chapter 2 wasn't able to be finished before it launched; that is, all the important story details were there, but some of the extras were missing. I will also note that one of the locations of Chapter 2 was a little underwhelming at first, and the main challenge of Chapter 2 was significantly overtuned. Most of the changes since launch have been adding more details to flesh out the locations and associated NPCs better, as well as a few quality of life tweaks to help make the challenges a little more manageable for a wider range of player skill levels. The feel of the story is still the same.

[Echo Weaver]

1 minute ago, LadyWYT said:

I think this sentiment is spot-on. Quite a bit of Chapter 2 wasn't able to be finished before it launched; that is, all the important story details were there, but some of the extras were missing. I will also note that one of the locations of Chapter 2 was a little underwhelming at first, and the main challenge of Chapter 2 was significantly overtuned. Most of the changes since launch have been adding more details to flesh out the locations and associated NPCs better, as well as a few quality of life tweaks to help make the challenges a little more manageable for a wider range of player skill levels. The feel of the story is still the same.

Tuning is SO HARD. I've dabbled in modding That Other Block Game, and I've just now started to take a look at code modding VS, but I'm a serious modder in another non-block game. I have a big mod that has bee dangling out unfinished for a year because my alpha testing release demonstrated that skill gains are absurdly unbalanced, and I can't face all the testing required to get the values right. I really feel that pain.

Moreover, I'm not sure it's even possible to tune something well without a bunch of players testing it. That is, of course, what the release candidates are for, but the type of folks who like to play in them is still not a random sample of people who play the stable releases.

[Zane Mordien]

I'm happy they might develop an adventure game. A class system maybe and some skills. Toss in a real magic system and some quests. This would also be more fun to play with my kids probably. 

 

[Enjen]

1 minute ago, Zane Mordien said:

I'm happy they might develop an adventure game. A class system maybe and some skills. Toss in a real magic system and some quests. This would also be more fun to play with my kids probably. 

 

Right! There are so many avenues this could take hahahaha. Already the concept of what Hytale was going to be was satisfying enough. The most exciting part for me was how their appeared to be Tomes that allowed you to shoot spells out of 'em! 

I'd love to see a magic system like that. Maybe a new class that makes spells and spells scolls which are one time use spells that cost no Mana. They could call it a Spellweaver!

[Facethief]

Did you know:

The Elder Scrolls 6: Skyrim was based on the true legend of a person named Dover Keen who was sent to find the Elderly Scrolls and fight Aldoo Ween. Much of the story has been lost to time, but some interpret this as it being an “open word” adventure story.

[dakko]

3 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

The hint is in the name of the game Vintage Story. Is the team extremely satisfied with how the story of Vintage Story turned out?

HA! That angle hadn't occurred to me at all. Interesting.

[CastIronFabric]

53 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

I think you're reading #1 differently than I do. That reads to me like software engineers who are working hard to make things the best they can be. It is not a rejection of the approach to the story they have taken. I read that they don't like some of the details, probably because players ended up doing things differently than they expected, so they are adjusting details.

Re #2, I absolutely expect there to be quests. I can't imagine an RPG without quests, and in fact most of the brainstorming on this thread is about what form quests would take. The phrasing of your #2 indicates that you think quests of any kind would be a bad thing? 

I think what most of us agree would be a bad thing is a rigid required story progression that takes you to the end of the game, where you "beat" it. There are plenty of examples of RPG games that don't take that approach. Whatever they do needs to be compatible with procedural world generation.

I'd love to hear ideas you'd like to see in Adventure Mode.

Just to be clear, Minecraft Story Mode, despite its name, is a totally different game by Telltale that licensed the Minecraft name and art style.

there is some confusion, let me try to make it as clear as I can.

1. They stated that they were not pleased with how the story worked out. That is all that was stated, I am not going to presume what that specifically means other than they were not happy with it. I am not going to speculate as to WHAT specifically they were not happy with. 

2. I played EQ2 for at least 5 years nearly every day. I do not know where you got the idea that I think questing in an RPG is a bad thing. I am stating that I am willing to bet this new version will be heavy on questing because its a good way to reveal a story. How you got 'I think any kind of questing is bad' out of that is beyond me.

3. The new VS mode is going to be basically 'an entirely different game' as well and in fact the Minecraft story is literally called 'Story MODE'

Given what we know about this new game

A. RPG

B. Fantasy setting

C. Different aesthetic.

I have no opinion on what I want in the game because I personally am not interested in those things, I used to years ago but I am not any longer. That is NOT to say those things are bad, just that I am not interested. I am only sharing my predictions.

P.S. in EQ2 it is basically impossible to play the game and progress without doing questing. I am NOT saying that is a bad thing, but I would define that as 'heavy on questing' which I what I mean by 'heavy on questing' just 'having' questing is not 'heavy on questing'. Making it hard to impossible to progress in the game is 'heavy on questing'. Does that clear things up a bit?

 

Edited July 11, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[Echo Weaver]

11 minutes ago, Enjen said:

Right! There are so many avenues this could take hahahaha. Already the concept of what Hytale was going to be was satisfying enough. The most exciting part for me was how their appeared to be Tomes that allowed you to shoot spells out of 'em! 

I'd love to see a magic system like that. Maybe a new class that makes spells and spells scolls which are one time use spells that cost no Mana. They could call it a Spellweaver!

Craftable one-shot spells! That seems like the right theme. Maybe find the recipes in dungeon chests, buy from wizard vendors in a tower, or get drops from magical creatures.

You seem to have some idea what Hytale was intended to be. I watched the trailer, which looked awesome, but that's mostly art style. Could you give a quick summary of what major features Hytale promised?

[dakko]

Up until very recently, they've been revealing the VS story through bits and pieces of written lore and artwork found in dungeons. Of course now I see with the addition of the first boss that the story is also being revealed through quests.

I'm just grateful that the story line is open enough that it doesn't need to affect gameplay at all. I hope this will be true for the new mode as well.

Edited July 11, 2025 by dakko

[Echo Weaver]

4 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

I have no opinion on what I want in the game because I personally am not interested in those things, I used to years ago but I am not any longer. That is NOT to say those things are bad, just that I am not interested. I am only sharing my predictions.

That helps a lot for the context of what you're saying.

 

5 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

3. The new VS mode is going to be basically 'an entirely different game' as well and in fact the Minecraft story is literally called 'Story MODE'

I need to repeat this. Minecraft does not have any kind of story mode. Telltale made a licensed game called "Minecraft Story Mode." Saying that this is part of Minecraft is like saying Jurassic Park: The Game is part of Jurassic Park. It's just a license.

Minecraft Story Mode is not built on the Minecraft engine. Telltale makes a certain kind of game, and this is a Telltale game with the Minecraft art style.

 

6 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

2. I played EQ2 for at least 5 years nearly every day. I do not know where you got the idea that I think questing in an RPG is a bad thing. I am stating that I am willing to bet this new version will be heavy on questing because its a good way to reveal a story. How you got 'I think any kind of questing is bad' out of that is beyond me.

I drew that conclusion because of the remark below.

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

2. If VS currently is NOT a RPG, then why would we think a RPG version of it would not have quests because there are blocks in it? Is that more of a wish or a prediction made out of foundation?

I cannot imagine where you would have concluded from any post on this thread, much less mine, that anyone thought Adventure Mode shouldn't have quests.

 

[Zane Mordien]

9 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

P.S. in EQ2 it is basically impossible to play the game and progress without doing questing. I am NOT saying that is a bad thing, but I would define that as 'heavy on questing' which I what I mean by 'heavy on questing' just 'having' questing is not 'heavy on questing'. Making it hard to impossible to progress in the game is 'heavy on questing'. Does that clear things up a bit?

MMO RPGs are a different style though IMO. They have to force quests down your throat to keep you engaged and spending money on the game. I would like some quests but nothing on the scale of EQ or EQ2. Let's hope that isn't what they have in mind.

[Thorfinn]

44 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

That is, of course, what the release candidates are for, but the type of folks who like to play in them is still not a random sample of people who play the stable releases.

Not possible to overstate this. They caution that people NOT use existing worlds, and expect that you will progress far enough to test all the new flobbits. That means people who enjoy flying through the early game, and have done a fairly good job fine-tuning their "speedruns". Who laugh at the wolves and bears and rusties.

That's why the bowtorn and shivers were so "overtuned". The people who were doing the playtesting just adapted. It took several nerf releases to bring them in line with the broader sample of those who only play stable.

Self-selection in pre-releases pretty much guarantees "overtuning".

[LadyWYT]

My main sticking point when it comes to quests in videogames, is that most of the time, there's only a couple of ways to complete the quest, and the outcome is the same regardless of what option you pick. Sometimes NPCs might offer different reactions depending on the option you pick, but the quest's outcome still remains the same. Which, in all fairness, it's difficult to weave open-ended quests together into a story, since there are many more variables to deal with than there are with linear quests. 

The main example I would cite of such linear quest design is Skyrim. Love the game, but your actions don't really have any impact on the world, and when presented with a quest your only real option is to either complete it, or just leave it sitting there in your quest log for eternity. Divinity: Original Sin also has a rather linear storyline and quest system, however, most of the quests have a few different ways that you can choose to complete them, with appropriate outcomes for each option. Granted, the outcomes are usually something to the effect of good vs bad, but it's still a choice that actually means something to player. Picking the bad option might mean missing some loot, or missing some information important to a later challenge, or even kill a party member. Likewise, picking the good option might yield some extra loot, or some information useful to figuring out a puzzle, or let the player even bypass certain challenges entirely.

8 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

MMO RPGs are a different style though IMO. They have to force quests down your throat to keep you engaged and spending money on the game.

I was going to cite World of Warcraft as an example of linear questing, but this is also why I decided against it. MMOs are a different beast than singleplayer games.

In any case, what I'd like to see from a quest-heavy spin-off of Vintage Story, is something more similar to Divinity than to Skyrim. Let the player make choices and suffer the consequences! It's okay if they aren't able to do everything in one playthrough. If player choice has a noticeable impact on the world, it's a lot easier to get immersed in the story and take it seriously.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 minute ago, LadyWYT said:

In any case, what I'd like to see from a quest-heavy spin-off of Vintage Story, is something more similar to Divinity than to Skyrim. Let the player make choices and suffer the consequences! It's okay if they aren't able to do everything in one playthrough. If player choice has a noticeable impact on the world, it's a lot easier to get immersed in the story and take it seriously.

There is actually a plugin/mod for Final Fantasy XIV Online that does this. It allows you to create your own quest lines for others to complete. Generally the quests cannot offer you any reward (such as EXP, gear, items, or currency) but it can add depth to the story and allow players to create their own stories within the rich lore of FFXIV. With something like VS, however, it would be a lot easier because the mod would have better control over the system and would be able to give items to the player or whatever... It might be a lot of fun to explore something like this.

[Echo Weaver]

11 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

My main sticking point when it comes to quests in videogames, is that most of the time, there's only a couple of ways to complete the quest, and the outcome is the same regardless of what option you pick. Sometimes NPCs might offer different reactions depending on the option you pick, but the quest's outcome still remains the same. Which, in all fairness, it's difficult to weave open-ended quests together into a story, since there are many more variables to deal with than there are with linear quests.

I'm not a big MMO fan in general, but I do play one, and for that one I play seriously and have a lot of community engagement. (Heh. My video game style tends to be depth over breadth.) In Lord of the Rings Online, the devs have said that experimented with branching quests, and the only thing that triggered in their player base was a bunch of anxiety over which paths to take. Indeed, the primary example I know of this was a choice with consequences two expansions later, and honestly I wasn't wild about it. Maybe I would have been if that was something they did a lot, but . It seems like in a traditional linear RPG game, MMO or not, you're really using combat mechanics or whatnot to unlock unchangable increments of a fixed story. I don't mind that at all, provided the story is good. I don't think that's a good route for Vintage Story, though.

Alternately, I love games with hugely branching paths, but they tend to be shorter games, I presume because you're actually implementing a bunch of parallel versions of the game.

It seems like there's a third kind where choices don't exactly lead you to a different narrative each time but they, say, build or reduce your relationship with a given NPC, and your relationship with that NPC affects your ongoing options. A more broad version of the same thing would be for your actions to affect your general reputation, and that affects your ongoing options. I believe TOBG implemented a basic reputation system with villagers such that if you are observed attacking one the entire village will stop trading with you. Or something like that -- I play games to feel like a hero, so I seldom have any idea what the meaner paths do.

 

11 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

In any case, what I'd like to see from a quest-heavy spin-off of Vintage Story, is something more similar to Divinity than to Skyrim. Let the player make choices and suffer the consequences! It's okay if they aren't able to do everything in one playthrough. If player choice has a noticeable impact on the world, it's a lot easier to get immersed in the story and take it seriously.

I've actually never played either, though I've seen plenty of Skyrim from other sources. What is Divinity like?

 

6 minutes ago, traugdor said:

There is actually a plugin/mod for Final Fantasy XIV Online that does this. It allows you to create your own quest lines for others to complete. Generally the quests cannot offer you any reward (such as EXP, gear, items, or currency) but it can add depth to the story and allow players to create their own stories within the rich lore of FFXIV. With something like VS, however, it would be a lot easier because the mod would have better control over the system and would be able to give items to the player or whatever... It might be a lot of fun to explore something like this.

Whoa. I had no idea that any major MMO accepted user-created content like that. That's awesome.

 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

Just now, Echo Weaver said:

Whoa. I had no idea that any major MMO accepted user-created content like that. That's awesome.

They... don't. Their official stance is that mods are not allowed, but they don't stop users from installing them anyway via the Dalamud system provided by the XIVLauncher made by Goatcorp. Players only get banned if their installed mods start impacting other players negatively.

[Echo Weaver]

1 minute ago, traugdor said:

They... don't. Their official stance is that mods are not allowed, but they don't stop users from installing them anyway via the Dalamud system provided by the XIVLauncher made by Goatcorp. Players only get banned if their installed mods start impacting other players negatively.

Ah, now I understand. I'm apparently way to loose with my reactions, so this comment is a "thank you" reactioin.

[Zane Mordien]

54 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

That's why the bowtorn and shivers were so "overtuned". The people who were doing the playtesting just adapted. It took several nerf releases to bring them in line with the broader sample of those who only play stable.

Self-selection in pre-releases pretty much guarantees "overtuning".

When did temporal storms get crazy in the RCs? I played up to RC.4 and I didn't see a storm that produced 30 bowtorns. There were a few peppered in that I took care of before they got out of hand. When I played the stable it was completely different. I guess on RC 5 & 6 they used the Spinal Tap method and turned the spawn to 11?

[Echo Weaver]

2 minutes ago, Zane Mordien said:

When did temporal storms get crazy in the RCs? I played up to RC.4 and I didn't see a storm that produced 30 bowtorns. There were a few peppered in that I took care of before they got out of hand. When I played the stable it was completely different. I guess on RC 5 & 6 they used the Spinal Tap method and turned the spawn to 11?

This reaction limit thing is really cramping my style.

This comment is:

[CastIronFabric]

1 hour ago, Echo Weaver said:

That helps a lot for the context of what you're saying.

 

I need to repeat this. Minecraft does not have any kind of story mode. Telltale made a licensed game called "Minecraft Story Mode." Saying that this is part of Minecraft is like saying Jurassic Park: The Game is part of Jurassic Park. It's just a license.

Minecraft Story Mode is not built on the Minecraft engine. Telltale makes a certain kind of game, and this is a Telltale game with the Minecraft art style.

 

I drew that conclusion because of the remark below.

I cannot imagine where you would have concluded from any post on this thread, much less mine, that anyone thought Adventure Mode shouldn't have quests.

 

1. you said (quote): 'You (meaning me) make questing seem to be a bad thing'. I am trying very hard to explain that I do NOT see questing as a bad thing.

2. The reason for me pointing out that the grandfather of block games made a story mode (regardless of it that is 100% accurate) is because of your quote: 'a quest system would not make sense in a block game'. I do not know why you would come to that conclusion.

 

This all said, I am rapidly getting tired of this exchange 

 

p.s. the game is called Vintage STORY. forgive me in assuming that the creators of this game are a fan of making stories into games. I do not see how it would be a problem or how it would not work in a block based game given they have already done a storyline in a block based game called..Vintage STORY

Edited July 11, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[CastIronFabric]

1 hour ago, Zane Mordien said:

MMO RPGs are a different style though IMO. They have to force quests down your throat to keep you engaged and spending money on the game. I would like some quests but nothing on the scale of EQ or EQ2. Let's hope that isn't what they have in mind.

that is a generalized abstract implied understanding at best.

I do not think one can safely assume all companies making block games understand that as a hard written explicit no-no.

I do not know if 'hard questing' is the plan or not. I do think however story will be more important in this upcoming title than in the core game. Exactly HOW that is expressed I really am not even going to guess

 

Edited July 11, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[Echo Weaver]

12 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

1. you said (quote): 'You (meaning me) make questing seem to be a bad thing'. I am trying very hard to explain that I do NOT see questing as a bad thing.

2. The reason for me pointing out that the grandfather of block games made a story mode (regardless of it that is 100% accurate) is because of your quote: 'a quest system would not make sense in a block game'. I do not know why you would come to that conclusion.

I explained where I got that impression, and I'm willing to be corrected.

I can't find your quote from #2 in anything I posted, nor can I find it in any other comment. Could you point me to it? It seems to be the source of our misunderstanding.

I did say several times that it wasn't my intent, though, so I think we can consider that matter clarified.

Edited July 11, 2025 by Echo Weaver

[CastIronFabric]

1 minute ago, Echo Weaver said:

I explained where I got that impression, and I'm willing to be corrected.

I can't find your quote from #2 in anything I posted, nor can I find it in any other comment. Could you point me to it? It seems to be the source of our misunderstanding.

I did say several times that it wasn't my intent, though, so I think we can consider that matter clarified.

no I think I am going to walk away from this conversation. Sorry I got involved.