What holds us back - A discussion on the biggest problems with Vintage Story and potential solutions

[CastIronFabric]

21 hours ago, Callorn said:

My Final post and thought in the topic. I LOVE Vintage story i and want the game so succeed.
I don't know how to say it but maybe the game give not enough back for what i put in it, the reward does not match the efforts i put in?

Heck i was able to have a relatively small 1 room  house in Hytale in a hour that took me  10ish hour to build.(Yet I had more fun in vintage story).
 

The game by reasonable measures is already a success.

Speaking personally its the only game I own in the past 13 years that is NOT on Steam. They are not on Steam by choice despite the fact that they could easily bring in a ton more players and they know it.

[The Lerf]

I forget who it was or where in the thread, but someone mentioned that the mobs are treated more like environmental hazards than a farmable enemy. I actually wish that this was more true than how it is right now. The rules for enemy spawns do not feel consistent at all during the course of the game. Rifts spawn enemies, which is simple enough. And rifts can't appear inside rooms, that's great! Except that enemies can spawn in dark rooms without a rift present...which is a bit questionable with the established rift rule, but okay. Rifts bad, rooms good, keep them lighted. Except if you're underground, where there are no rifts, but more enemies than you've ever seen on the surface. And then there's Temporal Storms, where the rules no longer matter. They can spawn anywhere with no warning, even right on top of you if you're unlucky. So even if there was a hypothetical way to defend against mobs normally, it's thrown out in the unruled chaos of a Temporal Storm. So do rifts even matter?

Outside of Temporal Storms and above ground, enemy spawns should only happen from rifts, and have their spawn radius tightened up immensely so that spawns appear from within the rift. Maybe a little entrance animation too, i dunno have fun with it. Maybe instead of randomly appearing and disappearing, groups of rifts carve a long path through the world, making long chains of rifts that spawn enemies, asking the player to fight through them or find a way around. Enemies would have to stay closer to their spawn point for this to work with it's intended effect of being an environmental hazard. Aggro range for enemies in general feels way too big, in my opinion.

Storms are when you can start having fun with the established rules, instead of getting rid of them. I really dislike the 'spawn from nothing' that currently happens during storms. Unfortunately, rifts wouldn't happen during storms, so unless we go the route of having them walk in from far away, we'd need another way for mobs to appear. I really like the idea of increasing aggro range to infinite during storms, so you can get that feeling of a really aggressive enemy presence hunting you down, but there are other options. A spawner mob, or other supernatural effect, rising out of the ground... I'm down for anything other than blinking into existence. 

Perhaps more environmental constructs to combat the environmental threats? expounding on the Rift Ward, a construct that lowers their health, or other effects like blinding or pulling aggro. It almost feels like the Rift Ward is part of an unfinished system, and maybe when there's an enemy/storm overhaul we'll get other constructs to build to defend against mobs, making it feel more like a tower defense than a kite fest.

Who knows. These are all just ideas.

 

 

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On 2/1/2026 at 9:11 AM, CastIronFabric said:

unfortunately you are objectively wrong.

Yep! You're so right man, Sorry to have disagreed with you!

[CastIronFabric]

1 hour ago, The Lerf said:

 

 

 

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Yep! You're so right man, Sorry to have disagreed with you!

I am glad you read my detailed explanation as to why that is. Its fairly clear once you step back and read those points I wrote.

The evidence is fairly obvious in those details I gave (Part 1 was very obvious in fact). I think maybe you just were not fully thinking thru what you were saying, I hope my reflection on your words helps.

I would imagine looking back on it now that the argument of 'we can change how temporal storms work but we can not make them not global because the developers want it that way' is a bit circular and contradictory, we all do it sometimes.

Edited February 4 by CastIronFabric

[TFT]

9 hours ago, The Lerf said:

Storms are when you can start having fun with the established rules, instead of getting rid of them. I really dislike the 'spawn from nothing' that currently happens during storms. Unfortunately, rifts wouldn't happen during storms, so unless we go the route of having them walk in from far away, we'd need another way for mobs to appear. I really like the idea of increasing aggro range to infinite during storms, so you can get that feeling of a really aggressive enemy presence hunting you down, but there are other options. A spawner mob, or other supernatural effect, rising out of the ground... I'm down for anything other than blinking into existence. 

Perhaps more environmental constructs to combat the environmental threats? expounding on the Rift Ward, a construct that lowers their health, or other effects like blinding or pulling aggro. It almost feels like the Rift Ward is part of an unfinished system, and maybe when there's an enemy/storm overhaul we'll get other constructs to build to defend against mobs, making it feel more like a tower defense than a kite fest.

The way I see it storms are a global rift of sorts as your stability drains inside it and monsters spawn. It's meant to be a big exception to the rules so having them spawn everywhere in stronger variants is fair game, and it's a serious enough event to force a change of plans and keep it in mind. The issue a lot of people take with them is you're either ready or not, and if you're not you go to your time out closet which isn't fun. It's why people either turn them off, sleep through them, or log out in multiplayer because the only way to engage is to go fighting and not everyone is a fighter. Otherwise it's a pretty cool mechanic that needs more polish and iron out common grievances. I like them but they need work. What Toroic said is accurate.
It's supposed to be a world shattering event so spawn rules being broken is fair game, but that's not to say you cant do something about it. I don't think monsters should spawn near you if you're stable, so for lighter storms you are pretty safe inside your house but as they get heavier and longer you either need to kill monsters or burn a gear to remain stable. Long and heavy storms later in the world would incentivize combat which you should have good gear for by then, or if you're not a fighter you can build some jonas machine to prevent spawning or mitigate the storm's effects within its area. Adding that to the rift ward would fill that latter niche and give it an actual use since it's a worthless vanity item (like the rest of jonas tech) by the time you get it as lanterns do the same thing significantly cheaper and far earlier.

[Broccoli Clock]

On 2/1/2026 at 3:58 PM, LadyWYT said:

I'm not really sure how that gets accomplished..

It was purely a hypothetical, just to see where opinion lies. It's not something I'm specifically looking for, although if that's how the lore based storyline ends up I wouldn't be against it. 

 

 

[LexicalAnomaly]

On 1/29/2026 at 6:36 PM, CastIronFabric said:

it already does 'some' level of lighting additionally your rooms would then be restricted to meet the parameters of what the game considers to be a room which limits creativity. Not to mention your rooms would also have to have a certain level of lighting which the game already has and I do not approve. I want to make several rooms that are very very dim, candle light only kinda dim. why? because I want to

.Anyway, I disagree I think deeds are the way to go the only question is how big can a deed be. Wurm has been doing it this way for decades

This should be obvious, but Vintage Story is not Wurm. It's an "uncompromising wilderness survival." Who are you filing a deed with? It's ridiculous and silly. My suggestion was that any closed "room" just won't spawn enemies as long as it has any lighting, such as a candle, lit firepit, whatever. This sounds fair while not implementing meta mechanics. 

[CastIronFabric]

11 hours ago, LexicalAnomaly said:

This should be obvious, but Vintage Story is not Wurm. It's an "uncompromising wilderness survival." Who are you filing a deed with? It's ridiculous and silly. My suggestion was that any closed "room" just won't spawn enemies as long as it has any lighting, such as a candle, lit firepit, whatever. This sounds fair while not implementing meta mechanics. 

lolz....

I mean come on...drifters and bortorns after cooper in your base area is 'uncompromising wilderness survival' experience? what? now that is funny. I refuse to believe anyone thinks the game as it is in that respect is actually edgy or important game experience , you have got to be joking me. 

'Oh you come here to craft and build an empire?'

'No I come here to smash drifters around my base becasue that is the core edgy experience of vintage story' lolz

this aint 7 days to die. In fact, this game has far more in common with Wurm than it does 7 days to die

Edited February 11 by CastIronFabric

[Bruno Willis]

On 2/5/2026 at 11:43 AM, TFT said:

The way I see it storms are a global rift of sorts as your stability drains inside it and monsters spawn. It's meant to be a big exception to the rules so having them spawn everywhere in stronger variants is fair game, and it's a serious enough event to force a change of plans and keep it in mind. The issue a lot of people take with them is you're either ready or not, and if you're not you go to your time out closet which isn't fun. It's why people either turn them off, sleep through them, or log out in multiplayer because the only way to engage is to go fighting and not everyone is a fighter. Otherwise it's a pretty cool mechanic that needs more polish and iron out common grievances. I like them but they need work. What Toroic said is accurate.
It's supposed to be a world shattering event so spawn rules being broken is fair game, but that's not to say you cant do something about it. I don't think monsters should spawn near you if you're stable, so for lighter storms you are pretty safe inside your house but as they get heavier and longer you either need to kill monsters or burn a gear to remain stable. Long and heavy storms later in the world would incentivize combat which you should have good gear for by then, or if you're not a fighter you can build some jonas machine to prevent spawning or mitigate the storm's effects within its area. Adding that to the rift ward would fill that latter niche and give it an actual use since it's a worthless vanity item (like the rest of jonas tech) by the time you get it as lanterns do the same thing significantly cheaper and far earlier.

I really like this take. Particularly linking rust foe spawning proximity to character stability during storms. That ties the storms into an established mechanic, with established ways to deal with it. If rift wards were altered to fill the niche, I'd say they could produce an area where your personal stability is artificially higher, which could let you make it though storms without rust-foes spawning in your room, especially if you have a several rift wards set up. 

I like what The Lurf  suggested too,

On 2/5/2026 at 12:57 AM, The Lerf said:

Outside of Temporal Storms and above ground, enemy spawns should only happen from rifts, and have their spawn radius tightened up immensely so that spawns appear from within the rift. Maybe a little entrance animation too, i dunno have fun with it. Maybe instead of randomly appearing and disappearing, groups of rifts carve a long path through the world, making long chains of rifts that spawn enemies, asking the player to fight through them or find a way around. Enemies would have to stay closer to their spawn point for this to work with it's intended effect of being an environmental hazard. Aggro range for enemies in general feels way too big, in my opinion.

Storms are when you can start having fun with the established rules, instead of getting rid of them. I really dislike the 'spawn from nothing' that currently happens during storms. Unfortunately, rifts wouldn't happen during storms, so unless we go the route of having them walk in from far away, we'd need another way for mobs to appear. I really like the idea of increasing aggro range to infinite during storms, so you can get that feeling of a really aggressive enemy presence hunting you down, but there are other options. A spawner mob, or other supernatural effect, rising out of the ground... I'm down for anything other than blinking into existence. 

I think linking above-ground spawns exclusively to rifts could help, as would making rust-foes spawn right inside the rifts and stumble out. Maybe rifts could be linked to darkness though, so that if you leave a dark patch in a room, it has a chance to spawn a rift there, like a nasty rusty cobweb. You'd certainly learn exactly where the problem area in your house was. 

I love the idea of rifts as environmental hazards. I'm imagining a huge, horizontal rift cutting across a valley. The issue would be that passing through a rift is no problem currently. I think you'd want to A. add some "guard" rust foes who hang close to rifts (as you said) and B. make rifts feel sort of viscous to pass through I.E. you'd slow down as you tried to pull free from them. 

I've written previously about using light and fire as a early game rift ward. I'd love to inject it in here as another part of a solution. Basically, if light prevents rifts spawning, lots of light might make a small pocket of stability during a temporal storm. You'd build bonfires, and fight to keep them lit. Big two by two or three by three bonfires that swallow whole logs and throw out heaps of light and heat. It'd make a fun game for people who don't want combat. "We're not going to have enough wood!" "We don't need that beam on that corner, cut it out and burn it!" You'd use bonfires to stay stable during the storm, which would mean foes wouldn't spawn close to you. It'd mean you could have a bonfire in a courtyard and the foes would be stuck outside the gates, as long as you could keep the bonfire lit.

Maybe they could be used to burn away smaller rifts, if you keep them lit right under the rift for long enough. They'd also be a way to scare off wolves and bears, as a side-effect. 

[LexicalAnomaly]

On 2/11/2026 at 8:02 AM, CastIronFabric said:

lolz....

I mean come on...drifters and bortorns after cooper in your base area is 'uncompromising wilderness survival' experience? what? now that is funny. I refuse to believe anyone thinks the game as it is in that respect is actually edgy or important game experience , you have got to be joking me. 

'Oh you come here to craft and build an empire?'

'No I come here to smash drifters around my base becasue that is the core edgy experience of vintage story' lolz

this aint 7 days to die. In fact, this game has far more in common with Wurm than it does 7 days to die

It's a ridiculous meta mechanic that will never be implemented. 

[CastIronFabric]

2 hours ago, LexicalAnomaly said:

It's a ridiculous meta mechanic that will never be implemented. 

you have to admit, coming to Vintage Story because drifters spawn in your base is pretty friggin hysterical. I mean in a worst case situation it means you have to sit in your room and stair at a wall, not exactly compelling game play now is it? Best case they are just ants you have to smash around a bit because they distracted your line of thinking, that is it.that is 100% all of it. Come to Vintage story because of that? I do not believe it.

 

 

Edited February 13 by CastIronFabric

[LexicalAnomaly]

19 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

you have to admit, coming to Vintage Story because drifters spawn in your base is pretty friggin hysterical. I mean in a worst case situation it means you have to sit in your room and stair at a wall, not exactly compelling game play now is it? Best case they are just ants you have to smash around a bit because they distracted your line of thinking, that is it.that is 100% all of it. Come to Vintage story because of that? I do not believe it.

 

 

Are you deliberately misinterpreting everything I've said for your argument's sake or do you just completely lack any kind of reading comprehension? I mean, I thought I made it pretty clear that I support some way to stop enemies from spawning in dimly lit rooms, just not a meta mechanic like deeds. Maybe take a step back and reread the conversation before you spout some nonsense that makes you look illiterate and belligerent. 

[CastIronFabric]

1 hour ago, LexicalAnomaly said:

Are you deliberately misinterpreting everything I've said for your argument's sake or do you just completely lack any kind of reading comprehension? I mean, I thought I made it pretty clear that I support some way to stop enemies from spawning in dimly lit rooms, just not a meta mechanic like deeds. Maybe take a step back and reread the conversation before you spout some nonsense that makes you look illiterate and belligerent. 

given that 100% of the comment you replied to is related to what I just said I would have to say no. I would suggest you read the post you quoted me in its entirety and look for any mention that I may have made regarding any solution, because I didnt in that quote.

 

Edited February 14 by CastIronFabric

[LexicalAnomaly]

3 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

given that 100% of the comment you replied to is related to what I just said I would have to say no. I would suggest you read the post you quoted me in its entirety and look for any mention that I may have made regarding any solution, because I didnt in that quote.

 

Are we restarting the conversation from scratch with every post now? Surely we're capable of remembering the entire conversation. You created a blatant strawman because you're mad I disagreed with your deeds idea. 

[CastIronFabric]

3 hours ago, LexicalAnomaly said:

Are we restarting the conversation from scratch with every post now? Surely we're capable of remembering the entire conversation. You created a blatant strawman because you're mad I disagreed with your deeds idea. 

I respond to the text that people qoute me in. I do not make exceptions to that fact, I do not maintain a spreadsheet of what I said to you a week prior to the quote you gave me. 

However, my suggestion to you is to not respond to me at all, starting immediately.

 

[Stralgaez]

On 2/14/2026 at 12:22 AM, CastIronFabric said:

you have to admit, coming to Vintage Story because drifters spawn in your base is pretty friggin hysterical. I mean in a worst case situation it means you have to sit in your room and stair at a wall, not exactly compelling game play now is it? Best case they are just ants you have to smash around a bit because they distracted your line of thinking, that is it.that is 100% all of it. Come to Vintage story because of that? I do not believe it.

 

 

We (a group of 3) decided it wasn't worth the trouble dealing with the storms on a Vanilla setup, so we decided to 'powernap' through them out whenever a storm is immediately.

We lose a few hours of that day, but the tradeoff is not dealing with the said storm at all after realizing they weren't worth the effort.

[CastIronFabric]

17 minutes ago, Stralgaez said:

We (a group of 3) decided it wasn't worth the trouble dealing with the storms on a Vanilla setup, so we decided to 'powernap' through them out whenever a storm is immediately.

We lose a few hours of that day, but the tradeoff is not dealing with the said storm at all after realizing they weren't worth the effort.

yeah which is why I find it impossible to believe that the storms and drifter spawning in a persons base is one of the top compelling reasons why they enjoy playing vintage story. Those that allude to that position I just am unable to take seriously (and that is my watered down polite way of saying it).

Also, I find my suggestion of 'going TO the storm instead of the storm coming to you' being viewed by some as outlandish and unacceptable line to never be crossed to be extremely ridiculous

 

 

Edited February 15 by CastIronFabric

[Thorfinn]

19 minutes ago, Stralgaez said:

We (a group of 3) decided it wasn't worth the trouble dealing with the storms on a Vanilla setup, so we decided to 'powernap' through them out whenever a storm is immediately.

We lose a few hours of that day, but the tradeoff is not dealing with the said storm at all after realizing they weren't worth the effort.

Wow. Someone using an already implemented means of making the game more to your liking? Don't let that get around. Someone might accuse you of cheating or being dishonest or putting the toilet paper on wrong or something.

[Stralgaez]

26 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Wow. Someone using an already implemented means of making the game more to your liking? Don't let that get around. Someone might accuse you of cheating or being dishonest or putting the toilet paper on wrong or something.

Don't say too much, or else the 'there's a mod for your problem' crowd comes around.

[CastIronFabric]

2 hours ago, Stralgaez said:

Don't say too much, or else the 'there's a mod for your problem' crowd comes around.

oh trust me, that is much better than 'if you do not like it go play another game'

[InternetDragon]

Salt acquisition is at a weird point in progression.

It's most useful state is using it to salt hides pre-copper age so that you can hold onto them and stuff them in a cellar until you get a saw to make barrels to soak them in. But salt is, with a few exceptions (ruins and traders) requires copper to mine. Pretty much all uses of salt are gatekept behind copper in some way (barrels, mining halite) but by the time you have barrels, you can just directly dump a hide inside without salting it. In terms of preservation, salt-related methods are more or less inferior to other methods.

[LadyWYT]

11 minutes ago, InternetDragon said:

Salt acquisition is at a weird point in progression.

It's most useful state is using it to salt hides pre-copper age so that you can hold onto them and stuff them in a cellar until you get a saw to make barrels to soak them in. But salt is, with a few exceptions (ruins and traders) requires copper to mine. Pretty much all uses of salt are gatekept behind copper in some way (barrels, mining halite) but by the time you have barrels, you can just directly dump a hide inside without salting it. In terms of preservation, salt-related methods are more or less inferior to other methods.

Really depends on what one wants to preserve, and why. I don't worry about preserving hides myself, since I both enjoy hunting in the game and it's relatively easy to go out and acquire more hides either by hunting or with livestock(if one has pigs, sheep, or goats). Cheese will require salt, as will pickled vegetables and cured meat. While it's not necessary to utilize those preservation options to get food to last a long time, cheese is the only real option for preserving dairy for long-term use, and pickled vegetables/cured meat are the only food aside from raw grain and sealed jam crocks that last for years. If the player wants to stock an outpost with food they know will stay good for a very long time, pickled vegetables, waxed cheese, jam, and cured meat is the best option.

Otherwise, I agree for the most part; salt is in an odd spot when it comes to acquiring it. The options we have aren't bad, but trading won't be an option for Homo Sapiens players, and finding a salt dome or dry lake bed(warm climates only) can be a bit dicey. Some way to boil seawater for salt would be a nice option to have, since oceans are a proper thing now, and it's a fairly easy method for the player to utilize in all game modes, provided they have access to saltwater and are willing to take the time to boil it for the salt.

[Thorfinn]

45 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

and finding a salt dome or dry lake bed(warm climates only) can be a bit dicey.

Assuming I didn't dream this, I think this was fixed in 1.22.

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Assuming I didn't dream this, I think this was fixed in 1.22.

You didn't dream it; it was listed in the patch notes:

Quote

Fixed: Salt lake beds were not generating during worldgen (in very dry and warm areas)

That being said, I haven't gone looking around for the dry lake beds.

[PineReseen]

I think the root of the problem that you have here is that there aren't enough customization options, particularly in the modding department. Changing a whole system that is in place for a long time is bound to piss off many players, probably even more than who new system is catered towards.

I don't think it's a good idea to add 5 different versions of the same feature into the game either, since that means you have to perform maintenance and development on each of those.

So, what can be done? Well, we just allow modders to make a mod for your problem, and add even more customization options (like turning off unstable areas on the surface, more control over temporal storm rampup, changing rift spawning, etc.). I really don't think that refactoring the whole thing is a good way to go about "fixing" this, it'd be much better if people could do that themselves without major collateral damage, so people who want the base Vintage Story experience can play it, and people who want alternatives/customizability can either download or make a mod, or play around in the world configuration.

The only suggestion I don't think there's a major problem with is improving predator animal balance. I think it'd be a good idea to add a "wound" system (as was suggested in another post, I think?) that makes animals crippled when hit with a spear to the legs for example. That way you can disengage quickly if need be, but only if you play strategically.

Also, regarding the "What if I want to play with friends who have different tastes" argument, wouldn't refactoring the whole thing just make one of your friends unhappy? I mean, either the system satisfies some, in which case you can't really make it a whole different thing without making at least somebody unhappy, or the system satisfies none, in which case you just get a mod (or you would if that was an option for temporal stability currently) or change the world settings.