Silent Shadow

I also see you are fueling the fire with firewood there. I am not sure if you are just using it to warm up the fire and then add charcoal for the actual smelting or not, but just in case, so your time is not wasted, know that you will need charcoal for the smelting of metal or it will not work. Firewood just doesn't burn hot enough.

Tin is found in volcanic layers like andesite, basalt, and granite, usually somewhat deep underground. Honestly, it is easiest to just make a prospecting pick out of copper with a mold and use that to find a region that has it. Once you do that, you can find the ore dics by digging down and using the propick to find it.

Also, I am compelled to tell you that your question is about smelting, not forging (the hammering of hot metal into different shapes). Please forgive my neuroticism.

Nah, you can make a single bronze ingot with 2 nuggets of tin and 18 copper. It is not the most efficient use of tin (10% tin vs the 8% tin minimum limit for bronze), but you can do it. If you are going for your anvil you may as well make a 1000 units worth (anvil + 2 ingots) as multiples of 500 units (92 copper nuggets and 8 tin nuggets) maximize the amount of bronze you can make with your tin.

You gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers. On a more serious note, use fences for spelunking. Make fence pit traps and fence off sections so drifters cannot "peacefully assemble". With the drifters hanging out in pit traps (where they belong cannot get you) the game will not spawn more in the immediate area since there are plenty there anyway. Fence off tunnels to prevent them from pouring in like the nexus you found there. If you have a tunnel system you want to develop for mining, wood slabs are a cheap option for preventing them spawning in your main through-ways or for building over the crowd while you place the fences. I don't really know if you can lower the spawn rate or not, but since this situation is a bit on the extreme side, lowering the spawn rate may cause drifters to be too rare in most other situations.

You can for one block deep ponds, just don't crouch (like when butchering). Ponds and Ice are the best places to kill wolves.

I do think some restrictions and details could make it better, but they could also just add some tedium for no other benefit. Something like roasting ores to enable breaking them up for the nuggets would just be more tedium in my opinion (place ore in fire, use more fuel, leave for so long, get roasted ore and continue with smelting). Introducing more forming methods like using dies or mandrels, welding, bradding, packing, or 'steeling' would add more complexity, which wouldn't really do much for fun (it's just extra, less optimal options). However, if the time it takes for the workpiece to cool down is massively shortened and if these methods could offer a shortcut to experienced smiths, then I think there would be some depth for players to explore. There could also be a "hardcore" mode where you have to pay more attention to the craft so you have to plan out what you are doing (metal cooling faster and a chance of breaking if hammered at "only warm" temperatures). There could also be some "upgrades" or equipment limited by materials (bellows for the forge, which already have a model, to control the forge temperature; Borax as a flux for welding operations; mechanized bellows; etc.) There could also be some 'external' factors to reward smarter play, such as weight/block limits similar to the way the game Eco handles inventory (meaning you would want faster roads to your mines to counteract the limit, and your workshops would be more clustered if not already). Right now I think smithing is the best 'industry' in terms of engagement; There are multiple tasks to juggle to make working multiple metal items efficiently a fun challenge (fill crucible with nuggets and light fire, warm up two ingots, make first work piece, start second work piece, place and warm up two ingots in forge, pour 4+ ingots, so on). Making armor and lots of plates are probably the most fulfilling thing to do imo in terms of crafting. Most other 'industries' like cooking and ceramics are just repetitive in my opinion, probably because they lack the complexity and depth that smithing has. If there are to be additions to the game's crafting, they should be to make the player use less materials, be faster, or something to reward better skill or management. Just adding more boxes to check in a perquisites list won't make the game anymore fun, it will just take longer (delayed gratification not withstanding, but we probably have enough of that already).

Go for wood lamellar armor. No metal or barrels are required to make it, just some resin (respawns on the spawned trees. Planted trees never get it to my knowledge), some med/large cured pelts (hide + fat + time) and firewood. It is decent armor for taking a few hits underground and should last you until you can mine enough ore for a metal suit. You are not wrong about the cattail armor, I usually don't bother. On default settings, your world will have plenty of copper, you just got to find it. Starting a new world with the same settings won't change that. I would recommend exploring a bit to find seeds, ruins, traders, and some place to settle down. Look at the rock bits while you're exploring and you'll find plenty to mark on your map.

I have seen them clear fences using the thin molds. They may be able to "jump" or step off of an item similar to how they can use snow.

If you find you keep getting ambushed, you can stack two dirt blocks under yourself and you will be unreachable. Nice for surveys or marking your map. Don't bother with the club, have another flint spear. Swords (metal clubs) are very nice later on for quickly killing at the cost of reduced range. Spears can do a lot of damage when thrown but don't last long (not a problem with flint however, just make another.) Beenades are kinda useless, if funny. If you go underground at any real depth, have some armor (wood lamellar is fine and easy to make, if low grade) and some horsetail reed bandages (find the horsetail in 'wet' forests, it's plentiful there.) Fences are great for minimizing the danger of Drifters underground. You can form a quick wall to fight drifters behind, section off tunnels to prevent a large group spawning and fighting you all at once, and create pit traps to collect Drifters safely out of the way (line a one block depth pit with fences so drifters can walk over them into the pit but unable to climb out. Just do not fall in yourself.) Fences are also nice to let you mine the ore you want without getting interrupted. Keep in mind however that locusts do not care about fences and can walk around.

Just play with dirt being affected by gravity. You'll find plenty of pit traps and holes to hell covered by a thin layer of dirt.

Torches are enough for me to see at night and long LOS is not that useful because you cannot see if a pile of rocks has copper nuggets or not unless you are somewhat close, so exploring at night is not really a handicap in that regard. There is a lot of terrain where long LOS will not help you due to short sight lines. The worst that darkness can do is to hide some plants from you, but you'll still find plenty. The map works in light or dark and will show you the location of traders, ruins, and stone types to investigate in addition to a good path forward. The only terrain that is dangerous to explore at night are wooded hills and very thick woods as you cannot run away from wolves easily, but in other terrain you just need to keep in mind where the nearby ponds are, which the map will reveal to you far in advance of what you can see. If you are playing as a blackguard then staying still for the night will strain your food reserves. Also keep in mind that you are using up the valuable growing period before winter so there is a pressure to quickly explore for seeds and to find your permanent base/home before there is no time left to grow the bulk of your winter food. There is also the problem that panning is rather boring (for me anyway, to each their own.)

It is not a good chance to get things you need early on (getting anything copper or bronze that you can melt down and isn't a nugget has a chance of < 0.3%), and with inventory space being quite limited early on, I would prefer not to carry bony soil or sand/gravel around along with the pan. I would also say it is generally better to keep exploring at night except for maybe wooded hills/mountains as surface drifters are not a big threat unless you stop moving and are swarmed. Panning is okay for getting copper nuggets, but exploring is still better IMO, as you'll get low risk surface deposits to mine as well as more seeds to start with.

I have found that each group of bits tend to be part of a greater cluster on the map, you just need to explore more, and keep an eye out for that tell tale orange. I would also generally say that exploring is far better than panning as you can expand your starting seed supply, especially the rare ones. This makes growing large amounts of flax very easy later on, and once you find the copper bits on the surface you also get the deposit below to exploit later whereas panning only gives the nuggets. Exploring also gives you a chance to find the coveted limestone/chalk and a place to settle. Just don't wait too long or winter will preclude farming.

If you want a "real" challenge in the game, try to find all the lore books/scrolls. That should keep you occupied for a long time. My current goal is building a large museum with sections for clothes/jewelry, natural history (rocks/ores/shells/etc.), and every type of armor. It is true though that you need to give your own goals in this game, just like real life I guess.

Hello, I would say that this game is about going from a pseudo caveman to a proto-industrialist and is generally about material progression. Dying early doesn't matter much because the items then are generally easily replaceable (first 40 copper nuggets and rare seeds are exceptions). Restoring your health is relatively easy anyway (horsetail + reeds) and hunger is easily restored with the berries and wildlife, so giving those back when you die is not really the punishment for dying. As you progress though the game it is the items that become more and more painful to lose. Dying underground and losing your 50+ tin bronze ingot armor set is much more painful after considering all the materials and time that went into making it. Some materials are rare and losing them sucks just as much. As for hunger being refilled, you could depend on this and ignore food, but you would lose out on the Hp bonus that comes from sating your nutrition, making you easier to kill. Sure you could try to progress without that 50+ ingot armor and with poor nutrition, but as you go deeper into the depths and into bad terrain like wooded hills, you can die very easily and fail to acquire the next materials needed to progress. Some enemies can one-shot some of the weaker classes. As you progress you will be able to do tasks easier and for longer. Your tools become faster and last longer, enemies that used to be a threat can be dispatched easily, you can generate food and materials easier, you can replace your time spent refining materials with powered machines, and on and on. You basically build your power in this game. As for long term goals, you could try to learn all the industries to their full extent, explore (the game has quite a few nice sights above and below ground). Surviving winter without starving is an accomplishment on its own. You could rebuild civilization with a group and make a ~1700s era village after starting in the stone age. You could build a nice house in survival mode. Lots of options.

According to the wiki, the game only checks every 4 in game hours + a few seconds. If you made your farm tiles after making the green house it may not have updated them all at the same time. Waiting should fix the issue.

Yeah, I think it is a matter of expectations. The game gives you the tools to find most of the stuff in it, but it is not immediately obvious where it all is. I think that as documentation gets better and as the game is refined to match the general expectations that most people seem to have going in, that people will start viewing problems like these as more favorably.

Check this out for finding limestone/chalk

Don't get me wrong I really like building a nice looking home and workshops and with this idea, building a nice structure is rewarded and gives the player something else to do after they are setup. It also gives something else to do when winter is around and exploration of the surface is discouraged. Players that do not care about nice looks can still have their hole in the ground as this implementation would not penalize them (there's no debuff and the buffs are enough to encourage pretty buildings but are not critical to succeed). This would add value to a lot of items in the game that would otherwise just be ignored (like gold/silver), get sold off, or left only to players like us to appreciate.

Sources: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-KHSpw0-EoLt9XL1I20AhkmM8tnRu1qgBkz-d7hN2r4/edit#gid=0 - Handy table for ores/minerals/gems and their parent "gangue" rocks. This is not mine, and I do not remember who made it, but it is referenced by the wiki on the Rock page. https://wiki.vintagestory.at/index.php?title=Ore_Deposits - Talks about ore generation rules https://wiki.vintagestory.at/index.php?title=Terrain_Generation#Deposits - Talks about the rock layer placement rules Also marble apparently only spawns in phyllite and slate (see third link) so if you also see graphite with malachite then it may not be limestone but a metamorphic rock. It could be both too, so check with a mountain or deep shaft. Also, just because you find limestone sand or gravel on the surface does not mean there will be limestone rock below. Confirm it by digging down to rock.

I haven't really found any advice for sourcing limestone or chalk besides go look for it and basalt can spawn over it. Seeing how the lack of limestone/chalk will hold you back pretty hard, and the only alternative to mining is purchasing the small supply from the traders, I thought I would share my method, which makes use of the propick. Though it is still possible to search without one early on, I would recommend rushing to a copper propick just after a hammer and pickaxe since they can be made without an anvil (with molds), and then searching with one as it saves a lot of time and lives exploring dangerous shafts and tunnels. From cruising around in creative I have found the following: If you find any sedimentary rocks on the surface then the chance of another sedimentary rock layer lying below seems quite small, and the chance of sublayers being chalk or limestone seems to be just as unlikely. Sedimentary rocks seem to always be the top layers, with the sole exception of basalt, which is usually on top but may be sandwiched between sedimentary rock layers (seen with shale on top, not sure if that's related though). Rock type is consistent over horizontal distances ranging from 500 blocks to over 2000 blocks. Hope you like exploring. Rock type is consistent over vertical distances ranging from a few blocks to over 50 blocks. Hope for mountains or deep shafts. Spotting rock types in the map can be difficult due to the subtle shading differences of sand, gravel, and stone to the point that limestone/chalk may appear as granite or conglomerate. From comparing ores, minerals, and gems to their parent "gangue" rocks we can find some use in using a propick density mode search: Malachite is only found in limestone and the much rarer three marbles (from what I've seen they don't spawn and I have never seen them). So finding malachite probably means you've found limestone. Kernite, Galena, sulfur, phosphorite, borax, and the three coals (not graphite) are only found in 7 of the 8 sedimentary rocks (not bauxite), so finding one of those means there is a ~29% chance there is limestone or chalk (assuming there is an equal chance for all sedimentary rocks to form). Hematite may indicate limestone (but not chalk) but also may indicate sandstone, peridotite, phyllite, or granite Finding Limonite may mean the sedimentary layer is Chert or Shale and not limestone nor chalk, but this may just be Basalt rock. (If ore grade is better with higher density searches than very high and ultrahigh densities may rule out that the ore is in basalt. I don't really know though, nor have I found anything to suggest this aside from common sense) Lapis Lazuli only spawns in limestone, bauxite, and in the rare three marbles, making it a good indicator of a maybe 50% chance (I have yet to see any marble in the game but it may just be super rare). I found that Halite seems to spawn near limestone more than any other sedimentary rock, but I could not find any positive source to back this up. Something to consider though. I would appreciate hearing others' experiences on this. Taking all that info into account, it would seem that the best method for finding limestone or chalk would be: Keep an eye out for it while not in the map, as you may get lucky. Using the map for this is not recommended as limestone and granite have very similar colors and gravel, sand, and stone all have slightly different shades, but when passing over you may as well check. Keep an eye out for bits in the world for Malachite, Lapis Lazuli, Kernite, Halite, Galena, sulfur, phosphorite, borax, and the three coals (not graphite). While most of these are rare, they may indicate a sedimentary layer below a layer of dirt, and possibly be limestone. Chances are though that if it is limestone, you will have seen it in rock, gravel, or sand form before chancing upon the bits. Search the surface world for Basalt and do a propick density test survey of the region. Note any mountains and deep looking shafts on the map as they can be used to confirm findings. If malachite is found, you've almost certainly found limestone (or the useless marble, which I am unsure exists at all as I have yet to see it naturally) If Halite (salt) is found, you've probably found limestone. Disclaimer: I have not found any source to back up my correlation of halite to limestone other than the requirement to spawn in a sedimentary rock layer (but I rarely find them in other stones which may be from a lack of testing), so confirm with a mountain or deep shaft. If Lapis Lazuli is found, you've found limestone or bauxite (or again, useless marble). A tighter propick survey pattern is more likely to detect Lapis Lazuli. Confirm with a mountain or a deep shaft. Confirm with tunnel exploration if you must, or just dig/mine a shaft down. Expect to go 50-100 blocks or more to find limestone. If Kernite, Galena, Phosphorite, Borax, Halite, Sulfur, or a coal (lignite/brown, bituminous/black, or anthracite), then there is a decent chance of chalk or limestone being there if limonite is not detected. Consider doing more propick surveys to detect an above marker, or look for a mountain. If these turn up nothing, then consider an exploration of a shaft, but don't get your hopes up. If Lapis Lazuli and one of [Kernite, Galena, Halite, Phosphorite, Borax, Sulfur, or a coal (lignite/brown, bituminous/black, or anthracite)] are found then you probably have found limestone as bauxite does not spawn with the latter. Confirm with a mountain or deep shaft. There is a chance you have found a double sedimentary rock layer under basalt, but that is rare (in my experience anyway). If hematite is detected, then there is a chance limestone lays below, but it is unlikely as hematite can be found in 5 types of rock (see above). Further propick surveys are recommended, but if an above marker is not found, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Move on, unless also searching for iron ores, as you may get a rare mine that yields iron and limestone. If Limonite is found and none of the top three markers, there probably is no Chalk nor Limestone layer, so move on. Also look for surface sedimentary rock layers (Bauxite, Sandstone, Claystone, Conglomerate, Chert, Shale) though they are much less likely to contain limestone, you will probably be passing over them and so may as well do a quick check with a propick. If you're searching before having a propick I would recommend skipping them unless they have high mountain cliffs. If you see a mountain cliff, and see a non-sedimentary rock layer below the sedimentary rock layer, move on; there's no limestone nor chalk. If you see basalt, there is a rather small chance of limestone, so use the propick or move on. Do a propick survey. If you found malachite, you found limestone. Probably. If Lapis Lazuli is found and not in a surface bauxite layer, you may have found limestone. If Kernite, Galena, Halite, Phosphorite, Borax, Sulfur, or a coal (lignite/brown, bituminous/black, or anthracite) is also found, then chalk or limestone is likely, but may be deep. Confirm with a mountain or a deep shaft, there is still a chance that you got a different sedimentary rock than chalk or limestone. Confirm with mountain or deep shaft. You may get unlucky with bauxite below. In rare cases, you may get limestone and bauxite spawn below the top sedimentary layer but multiple sedimentary layers are unusual and three or more are rare (in my experience anyway). If limonite is found and not in a surface layer of chert or shale, there is probably no limestone or chalk and you should move on. Finding any other type of rock (Andesite, Granite, Peridotite, Phyllite, Slate (not shale), or kimberlite (if that's possible on the surface)) on the surface probably means there is no limestone nor chalk below and you should move on. However, if a propick shows Malachite, Lapis Lazuli, Kernite, Halite, Galena, Phosphorite, Borax, Sulfur, or a coal (lignite/brown, bituminous/black, or anthracite) then there must be a sedimentary rock layer below, possibly limestone or chalk, BUT this is very irregular (in my experience anyway) and you should not expect this to happen with non-basalt, non sedimentary surface rock layers, so don't waste your time checking them out but be mindful while searching for other ores like tin or copper. Hopefully this will save you some time, but you should still be prepared to spend an hour or more.

While I like the aesthetics the game offers for buildings, there is currently there is no difference to living in a nice house made by the player and a dirt hole in the ground. Since the game is about progression through materials, there should be an incentive to using better materials in the player's structures. Artwork has about the same problem and currently it is quite tempting even for a player who likes shiny digs to sell the artwork found in ruins. I also think that everyone curses their luck when finding another luxury, furniture, or art trader as the stuff they offer is generally way less useful than the other traders' wares. Fancy and expensive clothes are similar as nobody would buy them when their insulation is poor Possible incentives for players to build with higher tier blocks and to decorate could be a slower temporal stability loss or a bigger buffer for it, longer sleeping times, less hunger loss during sleeping, pushing the spawning of drifters away, or something along those lines. As for implementing it, the game already has a room mechanic so perhaps modifying it to look at the blocks making it up and giving the player a buff based on an average value of the blocks making up the room. Art and displayed items could then add onto the value. For each block and item there is a value in gears for the traders already so the buff value for the blocks/artwork could be based on that. I think this would add to the game by giving more value to three of the traders and items like gold/silver/gems/art, and to give the player more choices they need to make (spend time making better housing vs getting better tools, and whether to prioritize gears or artwork/clothes).