Vintage Story: Adventure Mode

[Thorfinn]

Same as many, maybe most startups. Perfectionism. Not saying, "That's good enough for now. Let's get this other part of the roadmap implemented." Look at the placeholders in VS. If they listened to everyone who wanted, say, combat "fixed" (which everyone defines differently), VS would be in the same boat as Hytale.

The 80/20 rule is essential. Work on the 20% that gets you 80% of the benefits, not the 80% that gets you 20%. 

[Voldemort]

7 minutes ago, VintageStoat said:

To summarize this comment section:
"Grrrrr, change bad! Never try new things! Give me only the same thing forever, because I deserve it!"

Relax. Everything is going to be fine.
Vintage Story is my favorite game, and Tyron/the team can take on whatever challenges they are inspired to.

My 20 EUR has been more than well spent after hundreds of hours of gameplay.
I don't anticipate that will change by taking a few more people on for an experiment.

this is legit ragebait   

[Arcane Gunslinger]

Don't see this as bad whatsoever; exploration could use beefing up in VS, and I think an "adventure mode" would lend itself to this perfectly. 

Though if I had to be honest, I think a better avenue would be something a bit more complimentary to the core already in play, A "Rebuilt Civilization" mode.  War, geopolitics, settlements, land claims, economy etc. Something I think the game Eco has done a fair job on in many ways. I think this would be the type of thing that appeals to a greater influx of people.

Regardless, "Adventure mode" could have a ton of cross with the core. I'm not so sure "RPG" elements really fit, but exploration sure does. 

[Enjen]

Anego choosing to take this next step for their Studio after all these years is fantastic! The game we bought is advertised as unfinished/Early in Development. I've gotten my money's worth playing the hours I have in the world I've created. I don't think an expansion like this is inherently bad. Is change scary? Sure! The future is unpredictable the majority of the time and can be viewed differently based on everybody's individual personal experience. 

Hiring on coders who lost their whole project (who Tyron may know personally and knows their skill and/or simply wants to give his colleagues an opportunity) to work on an added Game Mode for an already amazing game just sounds great! New Coders for a new branch team to work on a new Game Mode. I don't know where the idea of resources being allocated incorrectly is coming from. These are people, with a passion and have decided to expand. That's not to say well-sound criticism (or otherwise...) won't come. Change is scary. I don't doubt Anego Studios can create a plan that only benefits the future of Vintage Story and all old and new players alike. You cannot please everyone. The loud ones aren't necessarily the majority... they are just the loud ones.

I Support Tyron, Anego Studios and their vision.

[qbit]

EDIT: After reading Tyron's follow up to the original post and his replies in this thread, my concerns are addressed.  I'm confident that the vision and gameplay mechanics for VS will not change from what I love about them.  While I'm not personally interested in what I think this Adventure mode will entail, I think it will be an overall positive for the game and the community.

 

On 7/5/2025 at 6:12 AM, Tyron said:

There will also be some areas where the goals of both teams will intersect and both projects will benefit, such as combat, improved enemy AI or better NPCs in general.

This is where I see the issue.  That statement has a positive spin, but I read it as Hytale mechanics rapidly bleeding into Vintage Story and altering the gameplay.  I have no doubt there will be internal struggles about these decisions that will also bog down development and slow the release cycle.

I'd never heard of Hytale until I read about it on these forums with the last news announcement about the game's failure.  I then watched some trailers and some youtube videos detailing the history of Hytale's development and the mistakes along the way.  It looks like it endeavoured to be the kind of community-driven, monetized content market that Roblox is (which I don't think aligns with VS's philosophies).  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's not really my point in this post.  I don't like the game, and I don't like the mechanics I saw.

Tyron specifically mentioned combat and enemy AI in what I quoted.  And I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg.  I feel this will too drastically alter too many mechanics in VS.  I also agree with others that have said that VS's story and lore development will suffer as it is blurred into whatever vision Hytale has.  Maybe even stopping further development of VS story/lore and putting it in this "adventure mode" while making the existing modes simple sandbox survival.

The progression in VS and the discovery of the lore and unfolding of the story is already the "adventure" to me.  It does not need a seperate mode.

I think the solution to this is to make Hytale an independent project from the beginning.  A separate codebase.  A fork that VS will not pull changes from, but the Hytale developers can sync and merge engine changes down, as they see fit, from upstream VS.

But the wording in this announcement seems to want this adventure mode to be deeply integrated into VS from the beginning, and then possibly release it in the future as a stand-alone game.  How does that work?  What happens to this adventure mode in VS after that?  Does it just stop getting updates, get deprecated, and replaced with a splash screen directing users to buy the new adventure mode standalone game?  I doubt that would happen.  So there again, there is reason for me to assume that a large number of Hytale-inspired changes to game mechanics, lore, etc. will be merged into the core experience of VS and remain there.

They should be totally separate projects from the start, with collaboration.  This will minimize Hytale design philosophies creeping into VS and alienating existing players.  I'm not happy about this announcement as it is written.  I'm new to VS, but have about 215 hours playtime according to my AMD control panel (which tracks playtime independent of platforms like Steam).

I like the game as it is.  And I like the direction it's going.  I've seen the Hytale trailers and various footage as I learned about it recently, and I don't like it at all.  I'll never buy it, and I don't want it in my VS.

It's a good investment for Anego Studios, as a seperate game with a totally different release cycle and forked codebase.  The part that rubs me the wrong way (which I feel is embodied in what I quoted from Tyron) is this idea of integrating all these changes as a new mode in the Vintage Story base game.

Edited July 6, 2025 by qbit
Updated sentiment

[Vratislav]

I do understand concerns about losing focus on core VS gameplay due to doing also something else, but I consider it excessive. The 1.20 version was successful, many new players bought the game, so the studio would probably have enough resources to try to develop the Adventure mod without losing much if it will not succeed, both in finances and focus. And as I understand Tyron's development style, these additional money wouldn't help to progress core VS much faster. So why not to invest into aim that is designed to return some effort back into main VS engine whether it succeeds in creating separate game, distinct game mode, or nothing much?

Also, after 500 hours of gameplay, my payment for the game (bought family pack) was fully returned in terms of well spent time. I'd be happy to see all eight story chapters finished in next two years, but hey, this is not a way that Tyron would follow anyway.

[DudeBroManGuy]

How about... oh, I dunno... finishing the game that I purchased first before using the money I gave you on creating a different game? Why, oh why, would you think that it's acceptable to take the funds from sales of an unfinished game and use them to create a spin-off game or implement features that wildly differ from the game you promised? How do I get a refund?

[Enjen]

28 minutes ago, qbit said:

But the wording in this announcement seems to want this adventure mode to be deeply integrated into VS from the beginning, and then possibly release it in the future as a stand-alone game.  How does that work?  What happens to this adventure mode in VS after that?  Does it just stop getting updates, get deprecated, and replaced with a splash screen directing users to buy the new adventure mode standalone game?  I doubt that would happen.  So there again, there is reason for me to assume that a large number of Hytale-inspired changes to game mechanics, lore, etc. will be merged into the core experience of VS and remain there.

28 minutes ago, qbit said:

It's a good investment for Anego Studios, as a seperate game with a totally different release cycle and forked codebase.

You make some really good points and sound concerns. I'm in agreement! The most chance of success would be a complete new fork from the beginning. However I do understand them wanting to integrate it into VS as a game mode to see if a playerbase is even wanting it in the first place. I suppose that's what Early Access for a game is all about right? Early Access VS Adventure (Hytale Essentially) and Early Access Vintage Story. Two separate entities. Two separate games. Perhaps using the same engine so they don't have to start all the way from scratch.

[Michaloid]

21 minutes ago, DudeBroManGuy said:

How about... oh, I dunno... finishing the game that I purchased first before using the money I gave you on creating a different game? Why, oh why, would you think that it's acceptable to take the funds from sales of an unfinished game and use them to create a spin-off game or implement features that wildly differ from the game you promised? How do I get a refund?

Write a support ticket for a refund. But i think you're going to extremes. When the main team is exclusively working on the game you payed for while the side team is working on a little project at first. It's not like the game will cease development to cater to this version. Personally, i trust Tyron and his team, because they never did us wrong. I think it's a case of wait and see.

Edited July 5, 2025 by Michaloid

[falco_lombardi]

1 hour ago, Thorfinn said:

Same as many, maybe most startups. Perfectionism. Not saying, "That's good enough for now. Let's get this other part of the roadmap implemented." Look at the placeholders in VS. If they listened to everyone who wanted, say, combat "fixed" (which everyone defines differently), VS would be in the same boat as Hytale.

The 80/20 rule is essential. Work on the 20% that gets you 80% of the benefits, not the 80% that gets you 20%. 

How badly do you need to feel your 20 bucks was worth it?

[DudeBroManGuy]

14 minutes ago, Michaloid said:

Write a support ticket for a refund. But i think you're going to extremes. When the main team is exclusively working on the game you payed for while the side team is working on a little project at first. It's not like the game will cease development to cater to this version. Personally, i trust Tyron and his team, because they never did us wrong. I think it's a case of wait and see.

That's not the point. I didn't pay money for VS plus a side project. I only wanted VS. I only paid for VS. If the funds I provided to Anego Studios goes to fund the creation of anything other than VS then the resources that I provided are, in some way, being siphoned from the project I gave my money to support; the resources that we all provided are being diverted to fund something that, honestly, I don't think most VS players want. I know I don't. Adventure mode? Really? I I have never played adventure mode on Minecraft and I know I'm not alone in that. Anecdotes aside, 100% of people who pay for VS want VS; less than 100% of people who pay for VS want VS + some other bullshit that isn't VS being funded with our money.

Imagine if, somehow, Microsoft went bankrupt and Anego hired some of their dev team and then announced they were adding some features of Call of Duty to VS. That's not what we paid money for, is it? That's an extreme example, sure, but I made the analogy extreme so that you can see the principle of the issue. I don't want elves and dwarves and whatever the hell Hytale was going to be in VS.

Edited July 5, 2025 by DudeBroManGuy
spelling

[Thorfinn]

3 minutes ago, Gabe Heasley said:

How badly do you need to feel your 20 bucks was worth it?

I don't have any firm number because permadeath deletes worlds when you die, so any game I died rather than quit does not get totted up, but I probably have 3500 hours in the game. I know, get a life, but still. Being retired gives you a lot of spare time. Anyway, that's, what, about a half cent per hour? I'd be willing to call it even.  

[Voldemort]

1 minute ago, Thorfinn said:

I don't have any firm number because permadeath deletes worlds when you die, so any game I died rather than quit does not get totted up, but I probably have 3500 hours in the game. I know, get a life, but still. Being retired gives you a lot of spare time. Anyway, that's, what, about a half cent per hour? I'd be willing to call it even.  

Now imagine use this 3500 hours in gym  

[Thorfinn]

1 minute ago, Adnyeus said:

Now imagine use this 3500 hours in gym  

And still die.  

Just die sore and exhausted.

Edited July 5, 2025 by Thorfinn

[Oto Nokyo]

2 hours ago, dakko said:

 

The new team would not detract from the existing team in any way; quite the opposite since overlapping mechanics (such as combat and improved enemy AI) will be shared between the two teams. That is a huge win for Vintage Story!

 

If they can't manage to improve upon enemy AI and Combat in Vintage Story they won't be able to do it with the nu-Adventure Mode Hytale-esque game they have in mind as a side project.

Some of us would rather just see the new staff being hired added to the Vintage Story roster and see what they can get done with the extended manpower vs them being redirected right off the rip to a new out-of-the-blue project. Best case scenario is updates remain consistent as they have been, worst case scenario VS gets abandoned completely since Tyron did work on Hytale. Who is to say he did or does not enjoy it more as a project over Vintage Story? The announcement of a fresh game is a slippery slope as over time more time and manpower can be redirected to new game over VS slowing down updates even more without the community being none the wiser. We know not what goes on behind the scenes but this attempt at transparency isn't as great as some would believe it is. 

A lot of the dissenting voices and myself included have seen companies go down this road just to fail miserably but sure, go ahead and blindly trust Tyron along with his developers at Anego Studios. No developer team or game studio has ever in the history of the gaming industry ever screwed over it's player base. 

[Thorfinn]

9 minutes ago, Oto Nokyo said:

worst case scenario VS gets abandoned completely since Tyron did work on Hytale. Who is to say he did or does not enjoy it more as a project over Vintage Story?

Highly doubtful. If that's what he wanted to do, why did he start on VS? Non-compete? If there were such, it would have lapsed years ago, assuming it would have held up in the first place. So why didn't he switch over then?

Do you really feel screwed over? Look at $20 titles (regular price) on Steam. Can any of them hold a candle to what you already have in VS?

[EDIT]

It is, of course, possible that expenses without revenue could sink Anego. I have no idea what their cash flow situation is, but, evidently it is good enough that hiring them on to work on VS is an option. You do kind of have to trust that he would cut the side project loose if that situation changed.

Edited July 5, 2025 by Thorfinn

[dakko]

1 minute ago, Oto Nokyo said:

If they can't manage to improve upon enemy AI and Combat in Vintage Story they won't be able to do it with the nu-Adventure Mode Hytale-esque game they have in mind as a side project.

Why ever would you jump to the conclusion that they cannot manage to improve enemy AI? That seems needlessly negative and pessimistic (and is without merit), and does not help to persuade me to your position.

 

[Oto Nokyo]

17 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Highly doubtful. If that's what he wanted to do, why did he start on VS? Non-compete? If there were such, it would have lapsed years ago, assuming it would have held up in the first place. So why didn't he switch over then?

Do you really feel screwed over? Look at $20 titles (regular price) on Steam. Can any of them hold a candle to what you already have in VS?

When Tyron started VS, Hytale was already in development? There is this thing called copyright infringement and making a hytale like clone doesn't do so well for an independent start up studio.

Comparing different titles to Vintage Story in steam is comparing apples to oranges. Some $20 games are great, some aren't. Songs of Syx is a great game and has about as much content as Vintage Story but in a different capacity.

Edited July 5, 2025 by Oto Nokyo

[Michaloid]

28 minutes ago, DudeBroManGuy said:

That's not the point. I didn't pay money for VS plus a side project. I only wanted VS. I only paid for VS. If the funds I provided to Anego Studios goes to fund the creation of anything other than VS then the resources that I provided are, in some way, being siphoned from the project I gave my money to support; the resources that we all provided are being diverted to fund something that, honestly, I don't think most VS players want. I know I don't. Adventure mode? Really? I I have never played adventure mode on Minecraft and I know I'm not alone in that. Anecdotes aside, 100% of people who pay for VS want VS; less than 100% of people who pay for VS want VS + some other bullshit that isn't VS being funded with our money.

Imagine if, somehow, Microsoft went bankrupt and Anego hired some of their dev team and then announced they were adding some features of Call of Duty to VS. That's not what we paid money for, is it? That's an extreme example, sure, but I made the analogy extreme so that you can see the principle of the issue. I don't want elves and dwarves and whatever the hell Hytale was going to be in VS.

But you're paying for what's already here right? Not for what's to come in the future. You're not an investor. Sure the updates are great and the game is in early access, but it's going to be finished eventually. You could've perfectly waited for the game to be finished and then buy it. But you didn't. And the new modes seem to be free. And not forced on you. Not to mention that Tyron promissed that the rate of the usual updates are not going to slow down. I genuinely cannot understand your point.

[Michaloid]

7 minutes ago, Oto Nokyo said:

When Tyron started VS, Hytale was already in development? There is this thing called copyright infringement and making a hytale like clone doesn't do so well for an independent start up studio.

But they're not gonna call it literally "Hytale"?? I know the tittle is a wip right now, but Tyron is intelligent enough to not call it literally "Hytale". Not sure what you're talking about.

Edited July 5, 2025 by Michaloid

[Oto Nokyo]

12 minutes ago, dakko said:

Why ever would you jump to the conclusion that they cannot manage to improve enemy AI? That seems needlessly negative and pessimistic (and is without merit), and does not help to persuade me to your position.

 

It's actually a valid argument against the whole charade of why it would benefit Vintage Story. If they plan on using a Hytale Adventure Mode to help improve the combat system and AI then would that mean overhauling Vintage Story combat and it's combat gameplay as a whole? Or will the new Hytale Adventure Mode be ran on the same engine Vintage Story is but just a reskinned modded version? If case one then the entire combat system is being changed to be as cartoonish as it looks in Hytale. If case two then in the time it takes for them to work up to combat in new Adventure Mode they could have sorted out the solution in Vintage Story itself without side-questing into a new project. You were never going to side with the opposition regardless of what arguments are made. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, Michaloid said:

But they're not gonna call it literally "Hytale"?? I know the tittle is a wip right now, but Tyron is intelligent enough to not call it literally "Hytale". Not sure what you're talking about.

What you're responding to is a response to why Tyron started Vintage Story and not a Hytale project a long time ago. 

Anyways, there's no use for further discussion from my part. Most of my skepticism of this move has been aired. Wish more people weren't complacent due to the hours spent they dunked into the game. I hope this doesn't end poorly for Tyron and team. Our criticisms are more than fair for those bashing us over it. 

[Rhyagelle]

8 hours ago, Doctorgeo7 said:

Hello Feature Creep... No matter how good the intentions here, I don't see this benefiting the game. There's already plenty to do and add within the scope of the existing game. Those resources spent on a different team should be used to further existing development. Not for chasing some vague ideas and concepts that may not add anything of value to the game.

How can it be feature creep when it's not Vintage Story? It's going to be two completely different games. It's not going to impact the game we are playing at all. They wouldn't fund a new game if they didn't have security for the first game. Do you think he made this decision just blindly or what?

[Wilbur Demitel]

5 minutes ago, Rhyagelle said:

How can it be feature creep when it's not Vintage Story? It's going to be two completely different games. It's not going to impact the game we are playing at all. They wouldn't fund a new game if they didn't have security for the first game. Do you think he made this decision just blindly or what?

lol "its not gonna impact the game at all"

[LadyWYT]

12 hours ago, Tyron said:

Team, Budget and Risks
We are now looking through the job applications and contacting promising candidates. So much potential. It feels like picking your favorite candy from a candy store. Thank you everyone for applying! We've carefully thought about our options, budget and potential risks. We'll be starting small (3 to 4 people) and expand once the project shows merit and gathers interest. A small team might be slower, but is also much more manageable, more effective and can pivot quicker. Slow growth allows us to fund this truly for the long term. And thankfully, we can re-use a lot of the Vintage Story ecosystem.

If I'm understanding correctly here, it sounds like a small team of former Hytale devs being assigned to develop an Adventure mode for Vintage Story, while the rest of the Vintage Story team continues developing the rest of Vintage Story proper. Which sounds pretty solid and fair to me. Here's to hoping it goes well!

12 hours ago, Tyron said:

The Goal
The new mode would be departing significantly in aesthetics, setting and game mechanics compared to Vintage Story. More focused towards fantasy and adventure/rpg-y compared to the gritty, realism based nature of the current experience. Personally, I would love to see some Elves and Dwarves in there
For the time being it would ship alongside Vintage Story at no additional cost but in the purely hypothetical scenario where it really takes off we could spin it off into a fully separate game. We'll be very open about it, release early and the sub-team will be given significant agency over development direction and communication style with players. There will also be some areas where the goals of both teams will intersect and both projects will benefit, such as combat, improved enemy AI or better NPCs in general. For existing players - rest assured, the aesthetics and game mechanics of Vintage Story will remain true to its original vision.

I've said it in another thread or two of late, but I would assume a game mode like this would result in the more populated world that some players desire, more than the lonelier setting we have now(which I do love). A mode with more fantasy sounds awesome as well, and I've a hunch that the code governing player class could be recycled to cover playable races like elves, dwarves, and whatever else gets added.

What I'm curious about, is that if it starts as a spin-off game/gamemode, but later becomes its own separate game from Vintage Story, do current Vs players have to go purchase it when it becomes a separate game, or do we get a free copy? Or maybe a compromise with just a generous discount on the new game? Personally I would hope for a free copy, since if it began as a free extra for Vintage Story, I wouldn't want to end up playing a lot of that mode as a free extra and then have to pay full-price later in order to keep playing(it's the principle of the matter rather than the dollar amount).

[Rhyagelle]

22 minutes ago, Wilbur Demitel said:

lol "its not gonna impact the game at all"

It isn't. 3-4 devs will be making a side game that'll take it [development] slow. This team will not take away time, nor devs, from VS because it will be seperate. Do you care to explain how you have come to that conclusion?