Tool head and handle should have separated durability

[GLaDOS_cz]

I think it would be great and in-depth mechanic if tools would have separate durability for tool head and "stick". If one or the other reaches zero, it breaks and you are left with just tool head that you can atach to new handle or otherwise.

I always found it weird and comical that you can just pick crude stick in forest and without a worry atach it to steel axe head, with that in mind, there should still have to be posibility to do that, but stick alone would have very low durability on par with the stone age tools, for a better durability handles player would need to actually craft a good handle from good wood, not just some crude stick.

After stone age, player could for instance make a crude handle just with axe and/or knife that would have similiar durability as copper tool heads, with technology advancing, player would unlock a new, fine tool handles that are properly made and have high durability, maybe wood procesing with oil? (Im not woodmaker, so I dont know anything about stabilising wood) Or even further making handles better with wraping handles with leather and so on.

[Heegrim]

Yeah, we need a RuneScape-like mechanic where your pickaxe handle breaks and the head goes flying off deeper into a cave so you have to go retrieve it.

We already have a mechanic for sawing bow staves, so tool handles should be similar. Steel rods should be able to be used as well for a huge durability increase. 

[Slam]

1 hour ago, GLaDOS_cz said:

I think it would be great and in-depth mechanic if tools would have separate durability for tool head and "stick". If one or the other reaches zero, it breaks and you are left with just tool head that you can atach to new handle or otherwise.

I always found it weird and comical that you can just pick crude stick in forest and without a worry atach it to steel axe head, with that in mind, there should still have to be posibility to do that, but stick alone would have very low durability on par with the stone age tools, for a better durability handles player would need to actually craft a good handle from good wood, not just some crude stick.

After stone age, player could for instance make a crude handle just with axe and/or knife that would have similiar durability as copper tool heads, with technology advancing, player would unlock a new, fine tool handles that are properly made and have high durability, maybe wood procesing with oil? (Im not woodmaker, so I dont know anything about stabilising wood) Or even further making handles better with wraping handles with leather and so on.

I think someone been playing too much project zomboid B42, and that it’s unrealistic my stick found in the middle of the forest should break before my triple harden steel axe head, when it’s really just realistic, as my stick I found in the middle of the forest, was one blessed every god one may or may not believe in.

[LadyWYT]

When it comes down to gameplay, I would rather the whole tool break when it reaches zero durability, and just add a few more options for what to make the handles from to extend durability. Having played with a system where broken tools drop recyclable metal bits...it generally proved to be more hassle than fun, since broken items would still eat up inventory space and throwing away usable resources isn't particularly enjoyable. 

Probably also worth noting that a common complaint about the other block game, is that tools basically never break or otherwise need actual repair thanks to a certain game mechanic that was introduced quite some time ago. If the tool essentially lasts forever, there's really not much incentive for the player to seek out more than a minimum of resources. 

[cjameshuff]

Rather than breaking leaving you a toolhead or bits of metal, perhaps allow you to scrap worn tools when, where, and if you choose, with a probability of recovering either the intact head or some metal bits based on how worn it is. As it is, there's the similar issue of having to carry worn down tools around along with a fresh replacement to get the last out of them, or having them cluttering storage somewhere. Just reset the durability when the tool is remade with a salvaged head...the limited probability of recovering it intact each time you recycle it means this isn't a way to get unbreaking tools, just a chance to get a little more out of them.

Have a good quality handle reduce wear: a wobbly fit on a stick is more likely to result in the head breaking. You could scrap a worn tool in the field and jam a random stick in it for a chance at extending its lifetime, but you'd be better off doing it at home where you can make a proper handle from wood wrapped in resin-glued leather or something. You can also dig more efficiently and hit enemies harder if you're confident the blade's not going to come off, so it'd be reasonable to get a damage/speed bonus from a good handle. Maybe specific kinds of handles with different bonuses for weapons vs. tools?

[GLaDOS_cz]

8 hours ago, Slam said:

I think someone been playing too much project zomboid B42, and that it’s unrealistic my stick found in the middle of the forest should break before my triple harden steel axe head, when it’s really just realistic, as my stick I found in the middle of the forest, was one blessed every god one may or may not believe in.

I actually never played Zomboid. I know it could cause "less fun" effect, but I think if it would be done right, it would rather add to the game, because the tools would look more visualy distinguish and each tool, in combination with quenching would be original also visually

 

5 hours ago, cjameshuff said:

Maybe specific kinds of handles with different bonuses for weapons vs. tools?

Thats a good suggestion too, bonuses should not be overpowered imo.

[InternetDragon]

There should be bonuses for using different wood types as a handle.

Example: sticks have a base durability multiplier of 1x, but you can carve and dry a oak or walnut handle for a 1.5x bonus. A pine handle would be worse, 0.9x multiplier, as it is a soft wood. 

[cjameshuff]

13 hours ago, InternetDragon said:

There should be bonuses for using different wood types as a handle.

Example: sticks have a base durability multiplier of 1x, but you can carve and dry a oak or walnut handle for a 1.5x bonus. A pine handle would be worse, 0.9x multiplier, as it is a soft wood. 

A well-made pine handle would then be worse than some random stick you found on the ground. All put together, my thinking is something like:

• Alternative stone-age recipe for boards, perhaps using a stone adze or other new tool. Much less efficient than saws: 1 firewood (4 per log) to 1 plank instead of 1 log to 12 boards.
• A stick gives 0.5x durability. A wobbly, crooked handle with a bad grip is more likely to twist/break tool heads or itself break.
• Carved handle recipe: 1 board + knife. A carved softwood handle gives 1x durability, carved hardwood gives 1.5x durability.
• Wrapped handle (carved handle + resin + leather or flax twine). Better grip, you can hit things harder: 1.1x speed/damage boost.
• Tool dismantling: a chance (decreasing with wear) of recovering an intact head from a tool, otherwise getting some metal bits (if the tool isn't stone). This gives the effect of tool heads being more durable than handles, without having to actually track them separately.

Sticks are then something you use for your first tools, or for temporary tools in the field, and you have an incentive to dismantle/repair tools in your workshop where you can give them good handles instead of carrying worn tools around until they break.

[Vexxvididu]

6 hours ago, cjameshuff said:

A well-made pine handle would then be worse than some random stick you found on the ground. All put together, my thinking is something like:

• Alternative stone-age recipe for boards, perhaps using a stone adze or other new tool. Much less efficient than saws: 1 firewood (4 per log) to 1 plank instead of 1 log to 12 boards.
• A stick gives 0.5x durability. A wobbly, crooked handle with a bad grip is more likely to twist/break tool heads or itself break.
• Carved handle recipe: 1 board + knife. A carved softwood handle gives 1x durability, carved hardwood gives 1.5x durability.
• Wrapped handle (carved handle + resin + leather or flax twine). Better grip, you can hit things harder: 1.1x speed/damage boost.
• Tool dismantling: a chance (decreasing with wear) of recovering an intact head from a tool, otherwise getting some metal bits (if the tool isn't stone). This gives the effect of tool heads being more durable than handles, without having to actually track them separately.

Sticks are then something you use for your first tools, or for temporary tools in the field, and you have an incentive to dismantle/repair tools in your workshop where you can give them good handles instead of carrying worn tools around until they break.

That might be a bit harsh... I'd maybe use sticks for stone tools and standard durability for stone tools. Bones still give extra. Copper tools can use a stick to get 0.85x durability or a carved handle to get 1x. Bronze, iron and beyond require a carved handle or better.  Then maybe also have forged handles to get 1.5x durability and must be the same metal as the tool head.

[cjameshuff]

In the real world, there's nothing stopping you from doing fine wood carving and making a high quality handle with stone tools, for stone tools. Neolithic people didn't just use crude sticks. And I'm not sure how arbitrarily requiring a carved handle for bronze+ tools is less harsh. You wouldn't want to pay the durability penalty and give up the speed/damage bonus on a good metal tool head, but what's stopping you from rigging up a crude handle with what you have on-hand if you absolutely need to?

Bone and antler are perfectly good handle materials, I'd just make them equivalent to hardwood.