Dying from starvation - too quick

[daretmavi]

Hi,

I think the speed of loosing HP from starvation should be at leas configurable.

On standard setting, if you are hungry you loose ca. 5 hp in 1 game hour. This means you can starve to death in 6 hours (with 15 hp). This is way too quick and sometimes very annoying.
Any species should survive at least several days without food. Even humans can. At least 24 hour would be fine to survive in the game (ideal 3 days).

Problem is, if you respawn at night, than you can loose reduce your satiation level to zero in few hours (e.g. by running) and die in next 6 hours. Worst case - you die again before the sunrise.
 

There could be other downsides of starving. Like you could not heal at all ... no bandages, etc. would work on you. You have to eat something and than heal yourself.

[l33tmaan]

Starving should reduce your Max HP, not your Current HP.
Prove me wrong. 

[daretmavi]

35 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

Starving should reduce your Max HP, not your Current HP.
Prove me wrong. 

Sounds good 

It could reduce your max hp to 0 in a game week (then you die) and if you eat something your max hp would rise the same speed up.

 

[Fredrik Blomquist]

You can argue that you start starving before your hunger bar drops to zero, but sure, i like I33tmaans idea. It would make it more realistic, and i think also improve gameplay. First days can be pretty hard now, but then it gets pretty easy. With this setup, you can have a hard time in the start and still survive, but then have a longer period of having to get your max hp back to normal. Like the idea of not being able to use bandages to heal when your starving.

[Maelstrom]

5 hours ago, l33tmaan said:

Starving should reduce your Max HP, not your Current HP.
Prove me wrong. 

Starvation should reduce nutrition, which would automatically reduce max HP and require rebuilding nutrition after death.  It's somewhat realistic as well as your body cannibalizes itself until you can eat.

[Thalius]

52 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Starvation should reduce nutrition, which would automatically reduce max HP and require rebuilding nutrition after death.  It's somewhat realistic as well as your body cannibalizes itself until you can eat.

This. Exactly this. Current HP should go last, once everything else is gone, with damage ticks spread much further apart once you do start taking damage to your current hp.

[l33tmaan]

2 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Starvation should reduce nutrition, which would automatically reduce max HP and require rebuilding nutrition after death.  It's somewhat realistic as well as your body cannibalizes itself until you can eat.

I have been proven wrong!

[Heiress]

17 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Starvation should reduce nutrition, which would automatically reduce max HP and require rebuilding nutrition after death.  It's somewhat realistic as well as your body cannibalizes itself until you can eat.

After it has gotten rid of all the nutrition, I think you should start getting anti nutrition, this would slowly lower your health to 0 over the course of maybe an ingame week?

Probably keep that rate modifiable, both the nutrition loss and the health loss because player health is a variable that isn't always the same over every playthrough.

Or one could have it percentage based.

[Screwy]

Negative nutrition values sound not that appealing to me. After all, finding food quick enough is a gaming mechanic for a reason and it should be possible to find at least small amounts of food quite anywhere.

Also it is not clear to me, when the starving process begins in the current hunger system. What if half way down the hunger bar is also half starved?

Using up the nutrition values, before the HP sounds like the best compromise to me, but it has to come with a whole lot of other bad effects. Temporal stability might drop faster, if it drops, when you are starving. You could lower the attack speed, the walk speed, the block interaction frequency. It could give a cool down to jumping, it could give nausia and so on. It doesn't need to kill you, to give you a bad day, but this means, most players would rather die, before they take the starvation effect. So first of all, dying needs to be a bigger thing. Any ideas? 

[daretmavi]

1 hour ago, Screwy said:

So first of all, dying needs to be a bigger thing. Any ideas? 

I don't know. It depends on your playstyle. You can already set big respawn radius and limit gear respawn uses.

In the end it is you decision how you want to play.
I prefer not to die, even if it is not effective. Too big Death punishment can be tricky. If you die because of some server lag or just one stupid mistake, than it can annoy you.

I would go another way. If you starve, your max hp will decrease (see ideas in previous posts).
About the death ... if you stay alive, you could get some bonuses, like extra hp, reduced hunger speed, ... . If you die you loose your bonuses - not a big deal, but you better stay alive

[Screwy]

 

1 hour ago, daretmavi said:

I prefer not to die, even if it is not effective. Too big Death punishment can be tricky. If you die because of some server lag or just one stupid mistake, than it can annoy you.

Jep, my opinion too. But I find it a little low of a challenge if you know, that in case of death you just loose some stuff and wake up in a worm and cosy House with no further threads to fear.

How about reworking the respawn system? Temporal gears should be one time use. After respawning once, you should need to use another gear to reset your Spawn.

Why having a single, unique world spawn? Without a temporal gear respawn point set, you could spawn in a special, new structure. A beginner house or cave or anything, located in a temporal unstable area, so that you can't settle there. Those could be found all over the world and when you die far away from home, you don't have to run all the way back to collect your stuff. In trade for this, you would have to reach your corpse, starting without tools again. 

Corpse by the way should keep your stuff as long as you need to reach them, except for death through fire. 

A dedicated structure for respawning would emersively add to the lore of someone, who wakes up somewhere and can't remember anything. You can even make those houses spawn protected and make them look nice, provide a little amount of loot, force a non pvp area around the house and stuff. 

And how about using temporal gears on weapons and tools to keep them on the next death (just once though, as I suggested).

All in all, those features should improve the game play significantly, if worked out properly. 

What do you think? Am I on to something?

[daretmavi]

9 hours ago, Screwy said:

How about reworking the respawn system? Temporal gears should be one time use. After respawning once, you should need to use another gear to reset your Spawn.

You can do it already, there is setting for that.

 

9 hours ago, Screwy said:

Why having a single, unique world spawn? Without a temporal gear respawn point set, you could spawn in a special, new structure.

Interesting Idea. If would be nice addition. Respawning in some ancient temple (could support the lore )
Right now you can set big respawn radius (up to 10000) block. This makes returning to your staff almost impossible.

 

9 hours ago, Screwy said:

you would have to reach your corpse, starting without tools again. 

Corpse by the way should keep your stuff as long as you need to reach them, except for death through fire. 

Yes corpse is great.
Look at the Player Corpse mod. I got the info on my question about despawn time.

 

9 hours ago, Screwy said:

And how about using temporal gears on weapons and tools to keep them on the next death (just once though, as I suggested).

Yes, this would make gears more usable. For something precious .

 

[Screwy]

 

21 minutes ago, daretmavi said:

Yes, this would make gears more usable. For something precious .

Exactly! Economically it would give far more practical worth to temporal gears, which raises the demand and keeps the inflation of this currency low over time.

 

[Streetwind]

I like that idea. Not just for tools, but also for armor, in particular. So if you take the time and effort it takes to craft a full plate set, you can ensure that it stays with you when you die.

[Windego]

Malnutrition could also implement some other factors like slowing your character down by a %.
So once you reach 0 hunger, you become malnourished. Malnourished characters would become progressively slower and weaker, lowering their maximum health as stated above. Your walking speed would go down to.. I don't know.. 40% at most? Where it feels like you're crawling. 
The feeling of existential dread is dismal in the current vanilla playthrough in terms of hunger and starvation. Yes, you starve quickly if you don't find food, but for the people that have had several hundred hours under their belt, it becomes more of a timer if anything.
With pit traps being used to lure in wolves when they chase you, berry bushes around the globe in abundance.. Starvation becomes less of a hassle to deal with as you can just prolong your explorations via the use of your own timer (Starvation.)
With a malnourished status, decreasing maximum health that you've oh so strive to maximized to not become wolf food from a random wolf family around that one hill... And your speed being impaired by it.. Now that becomes an actual (My heart is literally in my throat) situation.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

1 hour ago, Windego said:

With pit traps being used to lure in wolves when they chase you

I don't mean to de-rail the thread, but I'd love some more information on this.  <.<   < /3 wolves

[Windego]

20 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

I don't mean to de-rail the thread, but I'd love some more information on this.  <.<   < /3 wolves

It's a simple concept where you dig a hole at least three (better four) blocks deep and 2x4 blocks wide. Poke the wolf you want to trap, and run towards the trap with it chasing you. Jump over the gap yourself and wait on the other end about 2 to 3 blocks from the edge. The wolf's pathfinding will conveniently ignore the gap and it'll fall into it. Don't let the wolf get too close to you while you're getting close to the trap. It has a lunge animation that can skip several blocks ahead. It takes a bit of practice to get down, but it's the safest way I've found dealing with them. Then just either leave them in the trap for emergency food and close it off with trapdoors so it won't die of being deprived of light. Or, keep it open and attract all the wolves in your area into the trap. With enough wolves in a certain chunk radius... You'll prevent any subsequent wolf spawn in that area. Effectively wolf-proofing your base of operation.

 

[Windego]

You can also use the same concept to lure other wildlife into a pit trap. Suspend a trough with hay and/or grain and berry bushes above the pit trap so they can't actually get to it and.... Sit back and watch them conveniently trap themselves with the lure.

 

[l33tmaan]

It's worth noting that pit traps are from Primitive Survival.

[Windego]

Not that kind of pit trap. I'm not even using that mod. A regular dug out hole. The through method for lures is also from vanilla.

Though note that here I made it a bit too shallow. Having it three to four blocks deep will prevent entities from jumping atop each other and hopping out. (Wolves in particular.)

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Windego