[Outdated] The "Minecraft-clone" problem

[Mads Søby]

First off, i would like to say that a thing I personally love about VS, is the humble atmosphere of the world and its creators. Nothing is too shiny. You're not a god. Its very down to earth, and easy to relate to and immerse yourself in. Its a very rare thing in todays gaming industry. 

These are some things i feel would make this game into a more complete and unique experience. Some of it is merely thoughts and ideas.
 

                    COMBAT (maybe a bit to obvious to spend time mentioning, but:)

1. A nice combat system would help immensely in setting VS apart from MC, but more importantly, it would make the game more fun IMO. Something like the way the spear works, but with some stamina stuff going on, for attacking and sprinting.
A dodge move would basically consist of holding down the sprint key, while moving in a direction to avoid an attack. You use up some stamina. No need for a dodge animation.
Make moving backwards slightly slower, leading to more tactical combat and positioning.
Maybe (MAYBE), make movement slower while attacking, unless the attack was initiated while sprinting.
Look at something like Mount & Blade, where you attack by holding down the attack-key to lift your weapon, and then releasing the key to swing it. It might be right for VS?
Get some shields in there.
Take some inspiration from Dark Souls combat, with stamina and all that. It is VERY satisfying, intuitive and addictive.

                 CRAFTING

2. Neoscavenger has one of THE BEST crafting system of all time. Here's why:
 - All crafting materials have  'Tags' (properties).
   Tags could be: Flexible shaft, rigid shaft, strong-cordage, weak-cordage, rigid sheet, flexible sheet, sharp edge, pointy edge etc..
 - Recipes DON'T check if you have specific items, BUT instead checks if you have ANY items with the specifically needed properties(tags).
   So for example, a heavy branch has the tags 'long rigid shaft', or 'long flexible shaft'.
   To make a spear, you need a "long rigid shaft", and an item with the tag "pointy edge", or "sharp edge", and lastly an item with the tag "medium (length)                 cordage". 
   Many items may correspond to these requirements, making for an immersive and intuitive crafting system, with many ways to make items, without having a       100 page recipe list, covering all the ways to make one item.
   If you look at something and think "I could probably make a weapon out of that, combined with this", you probably can.

3. Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead shines brightly in lots of ways regarding crafting as well. Check it out:
 - Tools have different levels of efficiency, e.g., a rock has 'Hammering quality 1' .
   That may be sufficient, if your'e planning to make a makeshift shiv/shank from scrap metal. Not for smithing a blade.
   So recipes check if you have a tool with a high enough "tool-level". It works really well.
   Kind of like your knapping system, where you need a hard enough stone. Or needing the right tier Metal tool for mining specific minerals. SO its already kind       of implemented in VS, i just wanted to mention it.

4. A unique crafting/environmental feature of C:DDA tho is:
 - Your character needs to be able to SEE, in order to craft complicated items (and to be able to read + other things).
   If its completely dark, you can't craft anything but the most basic things. (It's very immersive, and works very well, making light sources even more valuable.)

   (this feature might "implement itself", if you get rid of the crafting grid entirely, and everything becomes "in-world" crafting, like clay stuff etc., where having         light is pretty essential)

             WORLD / ATMOSPHERE

5. Making the game even scarier and fantastical/dark-fantasy would be great:
Check out The Betweenlands for some AMAZING inspiration. Best MC mod ever. Generally, it is just one of the most breathtaking mods ever made IMO.
It takes me straight back to dark, but curious 80's fantasy, the swamps of sadness, the dark crystal, labyrinth of the goblin king. I might go as far as to say, it is almost a perfect world for me.
Its a HECKIN' shame, that it isn't made for Vintage Story.. yet.
Also, check out their Discord development page for some brilliant game design inspiration! I'm very serious.

6. I think some basic cloth physics would be a great addition. Just to create even more atmosphere. Making simple linen rags to wear, waving gently in the wind, is a wet dream of mine. The wanderer, the humble nomad. This would also help distinguishing VS from MC greatly.

7. VS already have more impressive and interesting world generation than MC. Bigger mountains, cooler looking shapes. I love the areas filled with rock "pillars" you can stumble upon once in a while.
My point is:
Maybe emphasize this even more. Make it even more grand. taller pillars, deeper ravines, bigger mountains.
Which brings me to my second point:

8. Make the world more compact., and maze-like, giving the feeling of a "direction to go".
This could be done by making some generated "Paths", indirectly, by having more extreme and untraversable(without having to destroy) terrain, while somehow always making sure there is still a traversable "path" of terrain, acting as a "direction to go".
Thus, controlling/leading the player to potentially meaningful places of interest?
A system like that could be expanded upon, by DIRECTLY generating roads on the NON-extreme terrain "paths", and having those roads cross canyons, generating bridges to connect to high points, only to have that bridge completely in ruins, being dangerous to cross, "controlling/leading" players without the right equipment to perform dangerous tasks, pushing their limits.
All this could be made into an interconnected road network, leading to ruins and all sorts of funny places, giving the player a "path to walk", and making a more compact world, with a kind of puzzle-feeling to it. Some ways you can go, some places you need the right tools to get to.
Walking a path always feels good.
Just an idea I've been sitting on.

9. RUINSSSSS! I love medieval looking, overgrown ruins.
Maybe have some way of generating huge ruins, from some handmade pieces.
Like, hallways leading to rooms, rooms choosing between some handmade dilapidated walls, maybe a doorway, maybe a hole in the floor or ceiling lading to another room, Biome-correct trees and plants growing places, stuff like that. 
Exploring that would be fantastical.

10. Do more fog <3.

                  CHARACTER / INVENTORY SYSTEM

11. Make as many things visible on the character models as possible. 

12. Have the character models chest expand and collapse as they breathe.

13. Make weapons something you equip on your back, and sheathe on your hip. It would be nice for visual immersion, AND tactical gameplay. Again, look at how Dark Souls games handles switching between weapons and equipment on your character, and how its visualized ON your character.
Which brings me to:

14. Weight system, making you slower if overburdened. If at weight limit, you cant move without depleting stamina.



LASTLY: I agree with Copygirl. Maybe consider integrating some of the better mods into the base game, or of course, drag some heavy inspiration from them?

Vintage Story is one of my favorite games of this time, I have to say. Very nice creation. Great potential, becoming greater and greater it seems.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Mads Søby

[wesley Bruce]

Its not technically a minecraft clone as it is a minecraft fork in the Linux sense. Mojang went with one file format that's incompatible with some of the mods and after a vigorous discussion over fish cakes in Sweden Mojang and Microsoft gave some people permission to take the earlier version and make new games. I don't know if Tyron was in that particular loop but it is why we have so many new voxel games with a minecraft base. The patent on programs lasts fewer years than patents on technology and has expired, so we will see a lot of minecraft clones.

My dream is a dedicated limited resource ' skyblock' that starts you off with nothing but useless rock, wind blown resource's and flying mobs. But that's a whole other problem. It could be a mode/ mod here but not yet. 

[wesley Bruce]

On 9/8/2019 at 4:13 AM, Jozsef Drum said:

What makes minecraft is look like minecraft?

the cubes 

I know it wasnt the first voxel game but the first thing is about minecraft is the cubes

What if we replace the cubes to normal realistic look shapes

like the NoCubes mod https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/nocubes

Or like the game: 7DaystoDie

 

 

No cubes would be just the marching tetrahedrons algorithm added to dirt and grass and some rocks. It would work but it does increase surface file size a bit and can be fiddly when messing about with mods, object placement and water.  I have alpha tested several game with marching cubes, which has a terrain mesh hole people can glitch though. I have a video on that made while alpha testing Rising world. Marching tetrahedrons algorithm is the fix. 

[wesley Bruce]

On 11/19/2019 at 8:46 PM, Jozsef Drum said:

In the game 7 days to die it is works almost good. The players buliding only solid blocks (wood, iron, bricks...) that is not affected. It is difficult to build with dirt, snow. (like not possible to build a dirt shelter) and the blocks has stablity (Structural Integrity), weight and affected by gravity. It is a complex system, sometimes slow and heavy on cpu/ram but it works. (not 100 percent)

There is a compromise solution available. This creates 3 new blocks per grass & dirt material. For various reasons Minecraft grass and dirt does not have a grass step or grass slab. That was only a choice. One reason Notch made that choice is that plants and water look wrong on them. An algorithm that does a pass on the terrain to swop a grass edge block out for a grass "stair" where there is nothing on the step up and air on one side only. Corner dirt blocks with air on three sides could also get the conversion to a grass slab 50 % of the time. Same with most dirt. This pass only occurs on the first chunk building pass. Lastly if you place a grass or dirt block it gets a 4th block tag or type. Placed grass, placed Dirt. A bit like the minecraft leaves that have a despawning leaf block form and a non despawning hedge block created when you place a leaf. If you break a grass/dirt stair they drop a dirt block. But they may be craft able with a gardening tool. Grass does grow over them but spawns a deep rooted version so it does not look wrong. 

It may also work for sand. You could also smooth caves with a native rubble stair that is randomly distributed replacing rock steps and drops a random rock type. That would make caves more interesting. 

Its an option but not urgent. It does add lots of blocks per soil type. Is there a hard limit?  
What modeling software is recommended for making blocks for VS? What is the block size relative to blender etc? 

[redram]

7 hours ago, wesley Bruce said:

What modeling software is recommended for making blocks for VS? What is the block size relative to blender etc? 

Vintage Story has it's own modeling program, Vintage Story Model Creator (VSMC), which is downloadable from the website.  It's based on I think Mr. Crayfish's program for Minecraft.  Simple but effective.

[wesley Bruce]

11 hours ago, redram said:

Vintage Story has it's own modeling program, Vintage Story Model Creator (VSMC), which is downloadable from the website.  It's based on I think Mr. Crayfish's program for Minecraft.  Simple but effective.

Ah I know how to work that one. 

[wesley Bruce]

11 hours ago, redram said:

Vintage Story has it's own modeling program, Vintage Story Model Creator (VSMC), which is downloadable from the website.  It's based on I think Mr. Crayfish's program for Minecraft.  Simple but effective.

Mr Crayfish does good stuff. Does that mean we can get his cars? Please please please. We would have to steampunk them up a little. 

PS the VSMC wants javaw and the readme is a file format I'm unfamiliar with. What am I missing?

[cHyperspeed]

Vintagestory IS NOT minecraft in gameplay mechanics i mean.

 

Good luck with this awesome game and KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK for the devs.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Peter Siederer

[peitum]

There's not really any way to avoid an initial "minecraft clone!!!" reaction while it remains a voxel-based game. While "voxel survival-sandbox games" are becoming their own genre, minecraft is always going to be the first thing that jumps to people's minds when they see the blocks, and that's probably not going to change for a while, at least not until there's enough games, such as this one, that do their own unique thing and do it well. Maybe not even then.

Most of the things that make VS unique and special are non-visual... the slower and more careful progression, the more varied needs (nutrition, farming nutrients, animal weight), the realistic approach to the environment and resource abundance, and (probably the thing that I'm most looking forward to seeing expanded) the background lore. These things become apparently really quickly once you actually start playing, but anyone just looking at a couple screenshots or even watching a clip or two isn't going to pick up on them.

I mean when I posted some pictures of my little homestead to my discord server (friends with whom I play mostly minecraft), one of my friends actually thought it was from our minecraft server. And it was of my windmill, possibly one of the most visually non-minecraft things in the game.

So if it's going to be compared to minecraft anyway, it's probably best to focus on features that mesh well with the things above that make it special, instead of trying to make it Not Minecraft. Defining something by what it isn't doesn't make for a very cohesive game.

That being said..
 

Spoiler

 

Artstyle: VS actually does already look pretty visually distinct from the default minecraft textures (as much as it can while still being realistic and a voxel game). I love the sepia colour palate, and while dirt/stone/wood are all blocky, the more detailed leaves and grass, the animals, and the ability to microchisel all pull their weight.

Stack/Slot Inventory: The slot-based inventory works well enough, I prefer that to something like a text-based inventory. Size kind of already plays a part in stack size, though? What with some things only stacking to 8. I think the main similarity is that the stack sizes are 8/32/64/128, but that's probably for technical reasons. Weight sounds nice until you realise the impossibility of carrying an inventory of stone and ore, and try to add in encumbrance. The only other solution I can think of is something similar to Haven & Hearth, where we had more slots but some things like tools or boards would take up multiple slots. And nothing stacked. It was... very cumbersome.

Making trees less blocky, more dynamic: Definitely agree, that's actually one of the things I have in my suggestion notes atm.

Thirst: I was actually surprised that the game didn't currently have thirst!

Crafting Grid: I think this one's already on the roadmap. Not sure how I feel about it. It's definitely a vestige from minecraft and there's no reason it needs to be here, but it's also pretty quick and convenient for crafting large amounts of items. While I enjoy the knapping, pottery and smithing systems, they're definitely something that works better in moderation.

Combat: Also on the roadmap. I generally avoid combat, but it is pretty clunky at the moment. I like the differences between the weapons we do have though.

GUI-Less: Some GUIs are probably going to be necessary. How would chests or inventory work, for instance? But I would love to see an upgrade from the campfire. Might have to make a note of that in my suggestions file.

Less repetitive unique crafting: Not sure how this would work, apart from utilizing the mechanical power to automate part or all of the process. Whatever changes might be made, as soon as you need to make 300 bowls, it's going to be repetitive no matter what.

World Generation: Taller terrain would be great! Actually, one thing I think would work well is tying the polar-equator distance permanently to the world size, where the poles are always the actual poles, rather than continuing to a second equator. Unless there's some lore reason, that's an...odd decision. I like that the world size can be made smaller, though. Being able to fully explore the world, given enough time, just feels cozy.

Monsters: Wolves (and hopefully other predators to come) exist during the day. I was actually under the impression that drifter spawns were tied to the moon phase (though I'm too chicken to actually go out at night to check), and once you add in the difference in type based on world height and the temporal storms, there's already plenty of unique features to the drifters. Not sure what the solution to this would be apart from...not having monsters at night?

 

 

[Veronica Hohenheim]

its 2025 and this is still the case.I mean I am a new player and I have been seeing this comment,even from a person who played the game.I too did tought it was a mc clone before I touched it and first time I launched it it fels like as if I was playing mc again.But that feeling was brief and mc logic doesnt work at all in this game.Now I am 60 something hours in and since I keep liking vs content similiar ones pop up and people keep calling it mc clone.Even a someone that made a x day type of vid starts to vid as its a mc clone.

This is not the case for a lot of other games started as mods but I guess since there is not much of a game in the same genre,same graphics it instantly called a copy.Tbh there are games,first thing comes to my mind is dragonquest builders.There is portal knights,block story and much more.Maybe its about visibility of those games or minecraft being so iconic that in peoples eyes it makes other games mc-like.Like in case of souls-likes.Its bit annoying to see those comments and probably will not die out if they havent been since 2020 the last comment on this post before me.

[Echo Weaver]

1 hour ago, Veronica Hohenheim said:

Maybe its about visibility of those games or minecraft being so iconic that in peoples eyes it makes other games mc-like.

Yeah, I think this is it. There's a genre of voxel games, and Minecraft wasn't the first. But it's the 900 pound gorilla in the genre, and a whole lot of people have never seen any of the others. So they see the block landscape and immediately think Minecraft. 

FWIW, even though this comparison gets incredibly annoying, it probably balances it out. Folks try it out because they like Minecraft, and I'm going to bet that the majority of them either stop immediately when they see how different it is or really get it. We hear from the folks in the much smaller category of people who don't want to think and/or are butthurt that it's not Minecraft. (This part truly baffles me; if you want Minecraft, why not just go play Minecraft?)

[LadyWYT]

7 hours ago, Veronica Hohenheim said:

Maybe its about visibility of those games or minecraft being so iconic that in peoples eyes it makes other games mc-like

 

5 hours ago, Echo Weaver said:

Yeah, I think this is it. There's a genre of voxel games, and Minecraft wasn't the first. But it's the 900 pound gorilla in the genre, and a whole lot of people have never seen any of the others. So they see the block landscape and immediately think Minecraft. 

FWIW, even though this comparison gets incredibly annoying, it probably balances it out. Folks try it out because they like Minecraft, and I'm going to bet that the majority of them either stop immediately when they see how different it is or really get it. We hear from the folks in the much smaller category of people who don't want to think and/or are butthurt that it's not Minecraft.

I'm thinking it's also because quite a lot of games took a look at Minecraft and instead of trying to do something new, just copied Minecraft and maybe tacked on a couple of extras as an afterthought in order to say they were "different". It's quite obvious that Vintage Story did take some inspiration from Minecraft, but instead of trying to copy someone else's homework, so to speak, Vintage Story developed its own vision, and that's one big reason of many that it's had so much success. 

 

5 hours ago, Echo Weaver said:

(This part truly baffles me; if you want Minecraft, why not just go play Minecraft?)

You would think. It's like choosing Pepsi and then getting upset that it's not Coca-cola. Both are good sodas, and there are similarities between the two, but they aren't the same thing.

[DUCATISLO]

who cares?

[Maelstrom]

When it clogs up the forums?   Yeah, I do.   It's one of the bigger reasons why I'm not posting as much as I was.

[Michaloid]

I don't think that this claim will ever go away unless the game does away with the blocks. Minecraft is the teacher, so everyone looks at it and anything that resembles it close is a minecraft clone Nothing anyone can do. Even for the devs.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

On 10/13/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michaloid said:

I don't think that this claim will ever go away unless the game does away with the blocks. Minecraft is the teacher, so everyone looks at it and anything that resembles it close is a minecraft clone Nothing anyone can do. Even for the devs.

If we're calling Vintage Story "another Minecraft game", then I guess we need to call Minecraft "another Infiniminer game"... since you know... Notch directly admitted that he wanted to recreate Infiniminer but with more focus on the survival aspects.

Yes, you read that right. Minecraft wasn't even the original.

[VintageSmoke]

3 hours ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Yes, you read that right. Minecraft wasn't even the original.

*gasp*

[Mac Mcleod]

The biggest issue that I see right away, is that it's too hard for casual players.

This is a fundamental design choice.   Just as with Everquest vs World of Warcraft.

Currently, the vendor has a purist idea of the game which is very challenging.   People who like challenging games find this the kind of thing they like.

But it's the difference between 568,000 subscribers (Everquest) and over 15,000,000 subscribers (World of Warcraft).

VS is *too hard* to ever be massively popular.  Hence the constant loss of many players who really liked their 5 months of play but now don't want to start again (even tho they'll be much faster since they know what they are doing this time).

Minecraft is *too easy* to sustain interest for many people.   Hence the "annual two week Minecraft phase".   

If you want to make the game easier (and more mainstream) then you are going to have to raise the DEFAULT settings to be easier.
Easier panning, more common ore, less common monsters (including wolves and bears).  Probably easier wolves and bears with less hit points that hit for less damage (at least when a player has played less than 30 hours in a given world).  Funny as it seems, dying to a bunch of wolves a half dozen times in your first 3 hours of play turns some people off the game.
Easier monsters too.   Taking 3 to 5 strikes to kill a surface drifter with a steel sword is a bit insane.   Taking 7 to 9 hits with a beginner weapon is crazy.
And less common temporal storms.   Better drop rates from the drifters (it's really bad and often not "worth" attacking them for the tool and weapon wear).   

But that's ONLY if you want to a be a mass market game.   If you want to be a purist like Brad MacQuaid...  then write the game you love and accept that it will never ever be a mass market game.   Just hope it's profitable enough that you can live your dream.

 

Anyway... Usual IMO, IMHO apply.

Edited October 17, 2025 by Mac Mcleod

[Metalton]

2 hours ago, Mac Mcleod said:

This is a fundamental design choice.   Just as with Everquest vs World of Warcraft.

Technically, EverQuest predates World of Warcraft and originally positioned itself as an alternative to Ultima Online (with better graphics and no greifers..). While WoW, that released some years later, was easier and cartoon-y, it banked most of its success on Blizzard's popularity and massive advertising..

[Mac Mcleod]

5 hours ago, Metalton said:

Technically, EverQuest predates World of Warcraft and originally positioned itself as an alternative to Ultima Online (with better graphics and no greifers..). While WoW, that released some years later, was easier and cartoon-y, it banked most of its success on Blizzard's popularity and massive advertising..

I played Everquest for a decade.  Went to the fan-faires in vegas.  Talked to the devs.   Ran a 72 person guild for 2 years before I burned out and handed it on to Faelin.

Everquest was hard.

People were leaving work to do epics or getting up at 3am to do an epic.
People were losing all their gear and multiple levels on death runs.
People had breakdowns. 
People quit because it was a lifestyle, not a game.

WoW was *insanely* easy compared to Everquest.  And so it was popular with casual players.   And it went mainstream and sold 30 times as many copies.

Vintage Story is no where near as hard as Everquest... but it is *much* harder than Minecraft.   It won't be mainstream at current default difficulty levels.

And there is nothing wrong with that.   Eve Online has about 19,000 players (another 4,500 on Steam) .   It's a niche game.  It will never go mainstream.

But the developers are happy.  The players are happy.   

But if they do make the default play easier;  for god's sake, don't call the easier default settings "easy" mode or anything like that.  That would put people right off.

IMHO.

 

[Metalton]

12 hours ago, Mac Mcleod said:

People quit because it was a lifestyle, not a game.

Hehe, yeah. Raiders and min-maxing "elite" players. Those people were weird.

Played UO for awhile, then EQ for years, was in the Beta for WoW, though never really played it once it released. Picked up EQ2 for awhile, still go back now and then and play both EQs on occasion. (SWG was in there somewhere while it lasted)

Played EQ with a group casually back then. We didn't raid. We didn't have epics. It wasn't that "hard". We had fun. To each their own I suppose though..

[Ms Morgan]

I played all of those you've mentioned and a few you didn't... never was 'elite' never will be.  I play to have my fun in my own way... play til its not fun any more and move on.  That said, VS start is pretty brutal on the default settings. I am sure that as a newbie I am wasting time/energy somehow someway.  I've seen (almost) all of my iterations get a bit better but at this rate I've got at least another twenty plus new game saves to go and hope that luck is on my side to get things right.

And as earlier posters said, watching someone spend a day or two in game to dig a trench or something that isn't real exciting isn't going to be a very exciting experience to watch, especially if they don't verbally articulate why they are doing it or explain why it takes so long, ect.

[Metalton]

5 hours ago, Ms Morgan said:

That said, VS start is pretty brutal on the default settings. I am sure that as a newbie I am wasting time/energy somehow someway.

Yep. Found the hardest part to be the pacing in the beginning (on Standard). Figuring out how things worked, what was important, and what I needed looked like... All while feeling very rushed. Even knowing what I'm doing the beginning feels like racing against a clock.. Until you get a cook pot and a small pile of food making hunger less of an issue. Heh, think I'm up to 25 restarts already.. Depending on the starting location some were easy than others. Though I got most of them to copper age, I keep flip-flopping between making the game even harder or easier and tinkering with the time calendarspeedmul (which doesn't really effect enough) or the time speed (which effects too much) as well

Edited October 19, 2025 by Metalton

[Endeavour]

I think the game doesn't need to be changed massively to appeal to the minecraft player and to steal their audience, it's its own thing. I'd rather see it continue on the path of the dev teams vision, since we are all here thanks to their vision.
I play solo and I was captured by the crafting mechanics and the detail, it's almost an edutainment game with how you progress through the ages.

People who want more multiplayer commune experience would definitely find the increase resource need and specialization a massive selling point - minecraft social experiments and multiple community servers usually fail or at best are completely underwhelming since a single person can easily get a full diamond set, working farm, animal husbandry and a gigantic mansion up and running by the time it takes a single person to get enough materials for bronze age in VS. Thanks to that trading between communities happens naturally in VS and can be a must for survival, as shown by this recent video from a zomboid group:

 

[Metalton]

Will say I've never played MC. Been aware of it for a long time, and though it has crossed my mind to pick it up on occasion I never have.

After stumbling across VS, I picked it up almost immediately.. So, there's that